How much is Kendrick Perkins worth?

[Mr October]

Rondo = $11 million
Perk = $8 million
Rest of roster = $7 million worth of draft picks + empty roster cap holds

A total of say $27 million against a cap of $55-60 million giving a rough estimate of $30 million in cap space.

---------------------------------------------------

I don't see a Kendrick Perkins contract being that burdensome to the Celtics 2012 free agency plans.

Rondo's non-max contract ($11 million) creates enough flexibility to hold onto Perkins and still retain enough cap flexibility to add two elite players in the future.

What if TA, Davis or a yet to be named MLE player is signed this summer or next? I am assuming there will be another 6 million in salary somewhere on this team. What if Ty Thomas can be signed for for $35 millon / 5 years?

But I get your point. The C's could hold tight on all other salaries outside of Rondo, Perkins and the picks beyond 2012. We'll see.

[MBunge]

If you are the Celtics GM/Owner, how much would you be willing to pay Kendrick Perkins in the summer of 2011?

It depends on whether the team is going into full blown rebuilding mode or not.  There's never any reason to pay a player like Perk a lot of money to be on a bad team.  But players like him can be extremely valuable if you've already got talent at the other positions.

Mike

[Eddie20]

Rondo = $11 million
Perk = $8 million
Rest of roster = $7 million worth of draft picks + empty roster cap holds

A total of say $27 million against a cap of $55-60 million giving a rough estimate of $30 million in cap space.

---------------------------------------------------

I don't see a Kendrick Perkins contract being that burdensome to the Celtics 2012 free agency plans.

Rondo's non-max contract ($11 million) creates enough flexibility to hold onto Perkins and still retain enough cap flexibility to add two elite players in the future.

What if TA, Davis or a yet to be named MLE player is signed this summer or next? I am assuming there will be another 6 million in salary somewhere on this team. What if Ty Thomas can be signed for for $35 millon / 5 years?

But I get your point. The C's could hold tight on all other salaries outside of Rondo, Perkins and the picks beyond 2012. We'll see.

And what if Pierce opts out this off-season to obtain a longer deal. IF we re-sign him to anything longer than 2 years, then he too will impact our cap that off-season.

[Mr October]

If you are the Celtics GM/Owner, how much would you be willing to pay Kendrick Perkins in the summer of 2011?

It depends on whether the team is going into full blown rebuilding mode or not.  There's never any reason to pay a player like Perk a lot of money to be on a bad team.  But players like him can be extremely valuable if you've already got talent at the other positions.

Mike

OK, then what is your answer for either scenario?

[Chris]

The tough part of this question is that I think it completely depends on the context of the rest of the roster.

For example, if they already have 2-3 stars locked up, and you are looking for a role player who can basically dominate on D, but can be hidden offensively, then I think there is an argument that he would be worth $8-10 million per year.

For example, if he was coming up for his extension in 2007, and the C's just got KG and Ray Allen, and they were still in their primes, you pay him what you need to pay him to keep him.

However, if your only star on the roster is Rajon Rondo, who is, generously, a third tier star in this league (which is certainly not a bad thing, but he is not Lebron James), and then a bunch of guys over the hill, who you are waiting for their contracts to run out, then I think it is a different situation.  

Basically, that puts the C's in a position where they need to find a way to get at least 2 more star quality players before being anything close to a contender.

Most likely, you are looking at a minimum of 2-3 years where this team is struggling to make the playoffs.  

In that situation, I do not think you can afford to give an All-Defense/no-offense player like Perk that kind of contract.  All it would do is hinder your ability to get those stars that you need, and frankly, he will look significantly worse, since you will be asking so much more of him, and unable to hide his weaknesses, which then turns him into a negative asset in your attempt to rebuild, since his contract is blocking you, and no one will give value for him in a trade.

So ultimately, unless the C's are able to pull a miracle in the next 8 months, to bring in some younger stars, I think you need to try to move Perk for a player that has a better chance of building his value, or has a chance of being more than a role player.

...of course, if he is willing to sign for $5-6 million per year, forget all this, that is good value.

[Mr October]

Rondo = $11 million
Perk = $8 million
Rest of roster = $7 million worth of draft picks + empty roster cap holds

A total of say $27 million against a cap of $55-60 million giving a rough estimate of $30 million in cap space.

---------------------------------------------------

I don't see a Kendrick Perkins contract being that burdensome to the Celtics 2012 free agency plans.

Rondo's non-max contract ($11 million) creates enough flexibility to hold onto Perkins and still retain enough cap flexibility to add two elite players in the future.

What if TA, Davis or a yet to be named MLE player is signed this summer or next? I am assuming there will be another 6 million in salary somewhere on this team. What if Ty Thomas can be signed for for $35 millon / 5 years?

But I get your point. The C's could hold tight on all other salaries outside of Rondo, Perkins and the picks beyond 2012. We'll see.

And what if Pierce opts out this off-season to obtain a longer deal. IF we re-sign him to anything longer than 2 years, then he too will impact our cap that off-season.

Yup, the Pierce situation is really sticky, and complex enough to warrant another thread entirely. I'd be willing to over pay him (yet still less than his current salary) for the sake of keeping his expiration date at 2012.

But your point is spot on. The 2012 team salary structure is going to be complicated. For now I would just like to focus this thread on the value of Perkins - even just a temporary gut reaction to what you think his max value is.

[MBunge]

The tough part of this question is that I think it completely depends on the context of the rest of the roster.

For example, if they already have 2-3 stars locked up, and you are looking for a role player who can basically dominate on D, but can be hidden offensively, then I think there is an argument that he would be worth $8-10 million per year.

For example, if he was coming up for his extension in 2007, and the C's just got KG and Ray Allen, and they were still in their primes, you pay him what you need to pay him to keep him.

However, if your only star on the roster is Rajon Rondo, who is, generously, a third tier star in this league (which is certainly not a bad thing, but he is not Lebron James), and then a bunch of guys over the hill, who you are waiting for their contracts to run out, then I think it is a different situation.  

Basically, that puts the C's in a position where they need to find a way to get at least 2 more star quality players before being anything close to a contender.

Most likely, you are looking at a minimum of 2-3 years where this team is struggling to make the playoffs.  

In that situation, I do not think you can afford to give an All-Defense/no-offense player like Perk that kind of contract.  All it would do is hinder your ability to get those stars that you need, and frankly, he will look significantly worse, since you will be asking so much more of him, and unable to hide his weaknesses, which then turns him into a negative asset in your attempt to rebuild, since his contract is blocking you, and no one will give value for him in a trade.

So ultimately, unless the C's are able to pull a miracle in the next 8 months, to bring in some younger stars, I think you need to try to move Perk for a player that has a better chance of building his value, or has a chance of being more than a role player.

...of course, if he is willing to sign for $5-6 million per year, forget all this, that is good value.

Chris sums up my view.  Perk will not make a bad team any better, but could help make a good team great.

Mike

[Chris]

The tough part of this question is that I think it completely depends on the context of the rest of the roster.

For example, if they already have 2-3 stars locked up, and you are looking for a role player who can basically dominate on D, but can be hidden offensively, then I think there is an argument that he would be worth $8-10 million per year.

For example, if he was coming up for his extension in 2007, and the C's just got KG and Ray Allen, and they were still in their primes, you pay him what you need to pay him to keep him.

However, if your only star on the roster is Rajon Rondo, who is, generously, a third tier star in this league (which is certainly not a bad thing, but he is not Lebron James), and then a bunch of guys over the hill, who you are waiting for their contracts to run out, then I think it is a different situation.  

Basically, that puts the C's in a position where they need to find a way to get at least 2 more star quality players before being anything close to a contender.

Most likely, you are looking at a minimum of 2-3 years where this team is struggling to make the playoffs.  

In that situation, I do not think you can afford to give an All-Defense/no-offense player like Perk that kind of contract.  All it would do is hinder your ability to get those stars that you need, and frankly, he will look significantly worse, since you will be asking so much more of him, and unable to hide his weaknesses, which then turns him into a negative asset in your attempt to rebuild, since his contract is blocking you, and no one will give value for him in a trade.

So ultimately, unless the C's are able to pull a miracle in the next 8 months, to bring in some younger stars, I think you need to try to move Perk for a player that has a better chance of building his value, or has a chance of being more than a role player.

...of course, if he is willing to sign for $5-6 million per year, forget all this, that is good value.

Chris sums up my view.  Perk will not make a bad team any better, but could help make a good team great.

Mike

TP.  Concise and too the point. 

[Mr October]

The tough part of this question is that I think it completely depends on the context of the rest of the roster.

For example, if they already have 2-3 stars locked up, and you are looking for a role player who can basically dominate on D, but can be hidden offensively, then I think there is an argument that he would be worth $8-10 million per year.

For example, if he was coming up for his extension in 2007, and the C's just got KG and Ray Allen, and they were still in their primes, you pay him what you need to pay him to keep him.

However, if your only star on the roster is Rajon Rondo, who is, generously, a third tier star in this league (which is certainly not a bad thing, but he is not Lebron James), and then a bunch of guys over the hill, who you are waiting for their contracts to run out, then I think it is a different situation.  

Basically, that puts the C's in a position where they need to find a way to get at least 2 more star quality players before being anything close to a contender.

Most likely, you are looking at a minimum of 2-3 years where this team is struggling to make the playoffs.  

In that situation, I do not think you can afford to give an All-Defense/no-offense player like Perk that kind of contract.  All it would do is hinder your ability to get those stars that you need, and frankly, he will look significantly worse, since you will be asking so much more of him, and unable to hide his weaknesses, which then turns him into a negative asset in your attempt to rebuild, since his contract is blocking you, and no one will give value for him in a trade.

So ultimately, unless the C's are able to pull a miracle in the next 8 months, to bring in some younger stars, I think you need to try to move Perk for a player that has a better chance of building his value, or has a chance of being more than a role player.

...of course, if he is willing to sign for $5-6 million per year, forget all this, that is good value.

So in other words, this summer or next year, from the Celtics's point of view in your opinion you really have to try to trade Perkins because resigning him in 2011 at 8 million per year with only Rondo as a star (and they don't strike gold in the draft, etc this summer or next) is a bad idea?

As a side note, I wonder if Perkins is one of those role players who are going to get squeezed and will have to settle for the MLE -> $35/5 years. If

[Prof. Clutch]

I think Perk is a crucial player for the one skill he is truly great at: one on one coverage of the best interior player on the other team.  It comes in handy so often against the likes of Howard, Duncan, Shaq, Bynum etc. and in a few years when Garnett isn't around anymore Perk is our best shot at maintaining a strong interior defense to anchor the team.  I wish he was a little bit of a better rebounder (although I'm sure his numbers would be higher if the C's weren't so focused on sacrificing individual statistics for the team.)

He took less than he could have potentially gotten on the free agent market when he chose to stick with the C's to reward them for drafting him.  He was coming up on free agency and could have gotten another team to bite with a larger contract (per nba.com):

The former Parade All-American had a breakout season in which he averaged 5.2 points to go along with 5.9 rebounds and 1.5 blocks in 19.6 minutes per game. Perkins recorded career highs in every major statistical category this past season. Perkins set highs in points (17 on 1/18/06 vs. Minnesota), rebounds (19 on 11/30/05 vs. Philadelphia) and blocks (6 against both Orlando and New York).

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/press091106-perkins-contract.html

He felt a sense of loyalty back then and I'm sure he'll feel the same come the next contract.  I'm sure he'll want to earn better money, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him take a franchise friendly contract in the $6-8 million range. (from Bulpett a few years back - an article entitled "Perkins points out C's loyalty")

The Celtics are certainly pleased to have Kendrick Perkins under contract for five more years at a total of less than $22 million. And, no, the 21-year-old center doesn't mind being a potential bargain.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bostonherald/access/1126898871.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Sep+13%2C+2006&author=STEVE+BULPETT&pub=Boston+Herald&edition=&startpage=59&desc=BASKETBALL+%3B+Perkins+points+out+C%27s+loyalty

[Chris]

The tough part of this question is that I think it completely depends on the context of the rest of the roster.

For example, if they already have 2-3 stars locked up, and you are looking for a role player who can basically dominate on D, but can be hidden offensively, then I think there is an argument that he would be worth $8-10 million per year.

For example, if he was coming up for his extension in 2007, and the C's just got KG and Ray Allen, and they were still in their primes, you pay him what you need to pay him to keep him.

However, if your only star on the roster is Rajon Rondo, who is, generously, a third tier star in this league (which is certainly not a bad thing, but he is not Lebron James), and then a bunch of guys over the hill, who you are waiting for their contracts to run out, then I think it is a different situation.  

Basically, that puts the C's in a position where they need to find a way to get at least 2 more star quality players before being anything close to a contender.

Most likely, you are looking at a minimum of 2-3 years where this team is struggling to make the playoffs.  

In that situation, I do not think you can afford to give an All-Defense/no-offense player like Perk that kind of contract.  All it would do is hinder your ability to get those stars that you need, and frankly, he will look significantly worse, since you will be asking so much more of him, and unable to hide his weaknesses, which then turns him into a negative asset in your attempt to rebuild, since his contract is blocking you, and no one will give value for him in a trade.

So ultimately, unless the C's are able to pull a miracle in the next 8 months, to bring in some younger stars, I think you need to try to move Perk for a player that has a better chance of building his value, or has a chance of being more than a role player.

...of course, if he is willing to sign for $5-6 million per year, forget all this, that is good value.

So in other words, this summer or next year, from the Celtics's point of view in your opinion you really have to try to trade Perkins because resigning him in 2011 at 8 million per year with only Rondo as a star (and they don't strike gold in the draft, etc this summer or next) is a bad idea?

As a side note, I wonder if Perkins is one of those role players who are going to get squeezed and will have to settle for the MLE -> $35/5 years. If

Yes, that is what I am saying...unless of course Danny can pull off a bit of a miracle, and turn over some of the older guys for young stars.  Which I suppose could happen, but I think realistically, Perk would have to be part of the value sent out to bring stars in right now.

As for Perkins getting the MLE, I think that is a possibility.  However, I think it is a big risk for Danny to count on that.  I think he will have extension talks first thing this summer, and if Perkins is not willing to take something in that range, he will have have to at least start testing the trade waters.

[Brendan]

Chris sums up my view.  Perk will not make a bad team any better, but could help make a good team great.

Mike

Agree. I think the caveats around what his trade value might be. Let's say you sign him for a three year 8 million dollar deal and you go for one last run. At the end of that you want to ship Perk off - how tradeable is Perk at 8 per?

Let's say OKC is about to take the leap - wouldn't they love to add Perk to their team to help them battle?

But he's not an offensive force - and while I think he'll improve more - he's not going to take a leap IMO. And he's not a 35 MPG player - so if you are a contender he's a great role player.

I'd probably keep him at 7 and maybe 8, because even if you switch into rebuild mode, he probably can be traded to a team that's in contention. Of the 8 teams left in the playoffs - LAL and ORL are probably the only ones I'd say couldn't substantially improve by adding him. The best thing is Perk seems to embrace his role player status, something that's been harder for other guys I see in his class to do.

Maybe the best thing for DA is to get a deal in place (front loaded if possible) for three more years (i.e. keeping perk next year + 3.) If they can't sign Perk - I do think there are other guys in his class of ability - Darko, Ben Wallace, JO - like Perk they have question marks, and I'm much more comfortable with Perk, but there are plug in the gap options.

[Mr October]

Chris sums up my view.  Perk will not make a bad team any better, but could help make a good team great.

Mike

Agree. I think the caveats around what his trade value might be. Let's say you sign him for a three year 8 million dollar deal and you go for one last run. At the end of that you want to ship Perk off - how tradeable is Perk at 8 per?

Let's say OKC is about to take the leap - wouldn't they love to add Perk to their team to help them battle?

But he's not an offensive force - and while I think he'll improve more - he's not going to take a leap IMO. And he's not a 35 MPG player - so if you are a contender he's a great role player.

I'd probably keep him at 7 and maybe 8, because even if you switch into rebuild mode, he probably can be traded to a team that's in contention. Of the 8 teams left in the playoffs - LAL and ORL are probably the only ones I'd say couldn't substantially improve by adding him. The best thing is Perk seems to embrace his role player status, something that's been harder for other guys I see in his class to do.

Maybe the best thing for DA is to get a deal in place (front loaded if possible) for three more years (i.e. keeping perk next year + 3.) If they can't sign Perk - I do think there are other guys in his class of ability - Darko, Ben Wallace, JO - like Perk they have question marks, and I'm much more comfortable with Perk, but there are plug in the gap options.

TP. I also hadn't considered future trade value too thoroughly. At 8 million per, I would think that Perkins would have very solid trade value to a wanna be contender or a true contender.

Man, these nest 3 summers have so much potential for so many directions.

Ainge is going to have to be prepared to build 3 different ways.

1. draft wisely
2. try to create caps space for the post KG/Pierce era
3. Keep acquiring good value assets, so that you can actually trade for good players

[Chris]

At 8 million per, I would think that Perkins would have very solid trade value to a wanna be contender or a true contender.

That's tough to say.  You might have thought the same thing about Tyson Chandler, who was an even better player than Perkins is right now a couple years ago, but has since become an albatross. 

The thing is, it is very tough for one dimensional players to have value once they get over the MLE. 

[Brendan]

At 8 million per, I would think that Perkins would have very solid trade value to a wanna be contender or a true contender.

That's tough to say.  You might have thought the same thing about Tyson Chandler, who was an even better player than Perkins is right now a couple years ago, but has since become an albatross. 

The thing is, it is very tough for one dimensional players to have value once they get over the MLE. 

Not sure why you see it that way. I think its tough for a player to get above the MLE - but that's just because no one can pay them more than the MLE - their value is probably higher.

That being said with the NBA CBA as it is - you still need a dance partner - you'd need to get a contract of about the same value back and you need to get some asset that can help you get the elite talent. OKC's Presti is creative and they could really use Perk over Kristic... but who do they give back? None of the draft picks is likely to be that high going forward.