Dominated

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

I think the Cavs should adjust and play Jamison and Shaq less. Of course that means if AV is having back issues the Cavs could be in serious trouble. He's the big that makes the Cavs defense go, and attacks the C's rebounding weakness.

I think the C's have figured out AV by now. At least that's what it looked like last night. He was nowhere to be found. If I recall correctly he only got 1 offensive rebound (over a standing still Tony Allen) that bothered me, and he didn't have much (if any) impact on the game at all. The only way he had an impact on the game is when he non-chelauntly sent Ray-Ray to the floor along the baseline. He was laughing afterwords, but you could tell that was laughter in disgust of his/his teams performance. Kudos to Baby and Sheed for keeping a body on the pesky AV.

[MMacOH]

Here is what Cavs fans have to place their hope in, the Cavs have not looked at the top of their game yet in the playoffs outside of Game 4 in Chicago.  The first two games against Boston has shown a Cavs team that was unprepared and unmotivated.  It almost seemed lek they were looking ahead to Orlando and content that they could 'flip the switch' in the second half of games and come back.  You could tell Lebron really picked up his intensity in the 4th quarter last night to try and mount the comeback.  The Celtics, to their credit, completely crushed any hopes the Cavs had of just turning it on and pulling out a win.  

This being said, Game 4 is going to be a good barometer for the Cavs and how they will approach the playoffs.  If they come out intense and focused then I think they even this series and take it in 7 (as I predicted when the series started).

Aso, don't discount Hickson and the impact he can have on the offensive end for the Cavs.

MMac, can you confirm that AV's "back spasms" are legit? What's the word in Cleveland?

Personally, I called BS as soon as I heard that reported last night. I figured Brown simply did not want to risk a second flagrant foul or an altercation that would garner a suspension for AV.

He is day to day and receiving treatment for them today, so I think they were legit.  But, I agree, AV needed to get out of that game

[MMacOH]

I fully expect the home court advantage being handed back to the Cavs on Fri or Sun.....and by handed I mean delivered in a golden tray by the 3 on court Zebras.

Even after a win you are blaming the refs.....wow

I guess you are wowed easily. A win doesn't change the fact that the refs have been horrible thus far in this series. I don't care if we lose....as long as its our poor play that is the cause of our loss....but wait...you don't care because you are one of the (Le)Queen's subjects....so, yea...the refs rock in Cleveland.

You obivously don't know me at all.  Did you read any of my posts in this thread?

The officiating last night played right into Boston's style of play.  They let Boston play very physical, especially in the second half.  There were several 'screens' by Perkins yesterday where he literally grabbed the guy he was screening.  Have I blamed the refs?  Nope.  You adjust to how the refs are calling the game, and if you don't you lose.  Period.  The Cavs lost because they didn't play a better game last night, not because of the officiating

How does KG adjust to getting whacked from behind by Lebron on a layup where he falls into another player and takes him out? Or near the end of the game Hickson stepping out of bounds or tipping the ball out of bounds but the ref calling it off Perk?

The same way the Cavs adjust to be hitting and bumped on every drive to the basket.  The same way the Cavs adjust to Perkins literally holding players on screens.  

You think KG was the only guy to get hit at the basket and not get a foul call last night?  Do you think the refs get every out of bounds call correct?

I can tell I am pretty much done with this post.  I thought it would be nice to discuss how well the Celtics played and what the Cavs needed to do to stay in this series.  You guys would rather complain about the officiating even when it catered to your style of play.  Oh well, I should have known better.  

You adjust your game to how the refs are calling the game.  Period.  Blaming the refs is an excuse, not a solution.

I dont mind at all you coming on this board and posting MMac. You are a great fan and very respectable when discussing our rival, your team.

That being said, you are not going to convince anyone that the Celtics benefitted from the way the game was being called last night. Sure the Celtics were being the more physical team but the Cavs got away with a ton of contact specifically in the first half. You do realize the refs went 21 minutes without calling a foul on the Cavs right?


Meanwhile, all of the Celtics bigs plus Pierce had at least 3 fouls going into halftime.

This is going to be a great series and if you want to continue to post here during it I would suggest staying away from discussions about the refs. There is just no way it doesnt get ugly.

I pretty much have my blanket statement about the refs that I always use.  It's just what I believe. 

Also, it's hard foul to when you can't catch Rondo and he creates wide open shots

[Greenbean]

I pretty much have my blanket statement about the refs that I always use.  It's just what I believe.  

Also, it's hard foul to when you can't catch Rondo and he creates wide open shots

Yeah that was one of the big weapons along with KG down low that I thought the Celtics had to exploit if they had a shot at winning.

One stat I just noticed when looking up foul numbers is that Varejao somehow pulled off a +2 in 21 minutes of work in an 18 point loss. This is even more impressive when considering that I dont think he was on the court when the Cavs made a mini run late in the 4th.

I asked earlier in this thread but do you know to what extent his back is bothering him? We quite honestly have no answer for that guys rebounding skills.

Edit: Never mind! I just saw your post!

[Mr October]

The refs let Boston play in the 3rd quarter, but in the first half you have to admit that the 16-4 fouls advantage Cleveland held was ridiculous.

And you have to admit that Lebron is easily the most fouls protected player in the NBA. I still can't believe he was only called for 1 foul last night. Hey that's par for his course. A token foul per game. Woo-hoo.

[RAcker]

MMacOH...TP for the entire thread.  You summed it up nicely.  Brown needs to start coaching or this series could start going downhill fast for the Cavs and he'll be out of a job.

As Roy did, I also commend you for not using the "E" word.

[MMacOH]

The refs let Boston play in the 3rd quarter, but in the first half you have to admit that the 16-4 fouls advantage Cleveland held was ridiculous.

And you have to admit that Lebron is easily the most fouls protected player in the NBA. I still can't believe he was only called for 1 foul last night. Hey that's par for his course. A token foul per game. Woo-hoo.

Yes, I think Lebron gets protected.  I think the same thing happens to Pierce and Garnett just to a lesser extent.  Pierce and Garnett will pick up 3 to 4 fouls but rarely ever foul out (have they ever?  I honestly don't know, not trying to be smart).  There were a couple Garnett fouls last night that were 'placed' onto Perkins to keep KG's foul count down.

I think Lebron definitely got away with a foul on KG at the rim last night, and I think he gets 1-2 of those a night. 

As for the difference in total fouls when it was 16-4.  Look how Boston was scoring though.  Rondo was smoking people, KG was abusing Jamison and Sheed was naling wide open jumpers.  It's nt like Boston was driving to the rim and challenging on every play.

[Who]

Cleveland should consider starting Delonte at the two and moving Anthony Parker into the backup PG/SG role.

Delonte West defends Ray Allen better than Parker does + Parker is a good matchup against Tony Allen.

[FallGuy]

I fully expect the home court advantage being handed back to the Cavs on Fri or Sun.....and by handed I mean delivered in a golden tray by the 3 on court Zebras.

Even after a win you are blaming the refs.....wow

I guess you are wowed easily. A win doesn't change the fact that the refs have been horrible thus far in this series. I don't care if we lose....as long as its our poor play that is the cause of our loss....but wait...you don't care because you are one of the (Le)Queen's subjects....so, yea...the refs rock in Cleveland.

You obivously don't know me at all.  Did you read any of my posts in this thread?

The officiating last night played right into Boston's style of play.  They let Boston play very physical, especially in the second half.  There were several 'screens' by Perkins yesterday where he literally grabbed the guy he was screening.  Have I blamed the refs?  Nope.  You adjust to how the refs are calling the game, and if you don't you lose.  Period.  The Cavs lost because they didn't play a better game last night, not because of the officiating

How does KG adjust to getting whacked from behind by Lebron on a layup where he falls into another player and takes him out? Or near the end of the game Hickson stepping out of bounds or tipping the ball out of bounds but the ref calling it off Perk?

The same way the Cavs adjust to be hitting and bumped on every drive to the basket.  The same way the Cavs adjust to Perkins literally holding players on screens.  

You think KG was the only guy to get hit at the basket and not get a foul call last night?  Do you think the refs get every out of bounds call correct?

I can tell I am pretty much done with this post.  I thought it would be nice to discuss how well the Celtics played and what the Cavs needed to do to stay in this series.  You guys would rather complain about the officiating even when it catered to your style of play.  Oh well, I should have known better.  

You adjust your game to how the refs are calling the game.  Period.  Blaming the refs is an excuse, not a solution.

Hey man - don't leave. It's interesting to have an outside perspective around here.

Most Celtics fans ONLY see the calls that didn't go their way, with no regard for the beneficial calls the Celtics get that would rightly annoy fans of other teams. I'm sure some Cavs fans are the same way.

Agree with you. No point in an extended back and forth whine session about the refs.

[FallGuy]

I think the Cavs should adjust and play Jamison and Shaq less. Of course that means if AV is having back issues the Cavs could be in serious trouble. He's the big that makes the Cavs defense go, and attacks the C's rebounding weakness.

I think the C's have figured out AV by now. At least that's what it looked like last night. He was nowhere to be found. If I recall correctly he only got 1 offensive rebound (over a standing still Tony Allen) that bothered me, and he didn't have much (if any) impact on the game at all. The only way he had an impact on the game is when he non-chelauntly sent Ray-Ray to the floor along the baseline. He was laughing afterwords, but you could tell that was laughter in disgust of his/his teams performance. Kudos to Baby and Sheed for keeping a body on the pesky AV.

AV gets his boards off of our defenders being out of position when Lebron breaks down our D. If that doesn't happen, he's far less of a threat.

[FallGuy]

Cleveland should consider starting Delonte at the two and moving Anthony Parker into the backup PG/SG role.

Delonte West defends Ray Allen better than Parker does + Parker is a good matchup against Tony Allen.

Brown really doesn't seem to know what he's doing with that Roster. There's a number of things he could be doing (also going small) that would create problems for us.

Let's hope he stays stuck in his ways for the next ten days or so.

[Evantime34]

I fully expect the home court advantage being handed back to the Cavs on Fri or Sun.....and by handed I mean delivered in a golden tray by the 3 on court Zebras.

Even after a win you are blaming the refs.....wow

I guess you are wowed easily. A win doesn't change the fact that the refs have been horrible thus far in this series. I don't care if we lose....as long as its our poor play that is the cause of our loss....but wait...you don't care because you are one of the (Le)Queen's subjects....so, yea...the refs rock in Cleveland.

You obivously don't know me at all.  Did you read any of my posts in this thread?

The officiating last night played right into Boston's style of play.  They let Boston play very physical, especially in the second half.  There were several 'screens' by Perkins yesterday where he literally grabbed the guy he was screening.  Have I blamed the refs?  Nope.  You adjust to how the refs are calling the game, and if you don't you lose.  Period.  The Cavs lost because they didn't play a better game last night, not because of the officiating

How does KG adjust to getting whacked from behind by Lebron on a layup where he falls into another player and takes him out? Or near the end of the game Hickson stepping out of bounds or tipping the ball out of bounds but the ref calling it off Perk?

The same way the Cavs adjust to be hitting and bumped on every drive to the basket.  The same way the Cavs adjust to Perkins literally holding players on screens.  

You think KG was the only guy to get hit at the basket and not get a foul call last night?  Do you think the refs get every out of bounds call correct?

I can tell I am pretty much done with this post.  I thought it would be nice to discuss how well the Celtics played and what the Cavs needed to do to stay in this series.  You guys would rather complain about the officiating even when it catered to your style of play.  Oh well, I should have known better.  

You adjust your game to how the refs are calling the game.  Period.  Blaming the refs is an excuse, not a solution.

I appreciate fans of other teams on our board as long as they stay civil. This is exactly what you are doing.

As far as what the Cavs need to do to win this series.
1. Find someone to guard Rondo, probably end up being LeBron
2. Get someone not named LeBron going early, if the other players are hitting and we can't help he becomes impossible to guard.
3. AV needs to get some boards, in the regular season he absolutely killed us, hasn't been the same so far.
4(an offshoot of one). Trap Rondo to force them to run the offense through someone else.
5. Never ever have Jamison guard KG. KG isn't that quick anymore, having a smaller defender guard him so that KG can just shoot over him is moronic.

Now that I have answered your question I have to give you my opinion on the officiating.
1. Do you really believe LeBron is treated fairly by the refs with respect to how they treat other players?
2. Do you really think that we really committed 23 more fouls than you in the 2 games? If not should the disparity be greater (please explain) or should it be smaller?
3. Are you satisfied with the level of acting that is going on in this series on both sides in order to draw calls?
4. In what way do you see the Cavs being negatively treated by the refs (general bad calls) if any?

I would like your opinions on these thoughts and I will give you mine if you are interested.

[CoachCowens]

I fully expect the home court advantage being handed back to the Cavs on Fri or Sun.....and by handed I mean delivered in a golden tray by the 3 on court Zebras.

Even after a win you are blaming the refs.....wow

I guess you are wowed easily. A win doesn't change the fact that the refs have been horrible thus far in this series. I don't care if we lose....as long as its our poor play that is the cause of our loss....but wait...you don't care because you are one of the (Le)Queen's subjects....so, yea...the refs rock in Cleveland.

You obivously don't know me at all.  Did you read any of my posts in this thread?

The officiating last night played right into Boston's style of play.  They let Boston play very physical, especially in the second half.  There were several 'screens' by Perkins yesterday where he literally grabbed the guy he was screening.  Have I blamed the refs?  Nope.  You adjust to how the refs are calling the game, and if you don't you lose.  Period.  The Cavs lost because they didn't play a better game last night, not because of the officiating

How does KG adjust to getting whacked from behind by Lebron on a layup where he falls into another player and takes him out? Or near the end of the game Hickson stepping out of bounds or tipping the ball out of bounds but the ref calling it off Perk?

The same way the Cavs adjust to be hitting and bumped on every drive to the basket.  The same way the Cavs adjust to Perkins literally holding players on screens.  

You think KG was the only guy to get hit at the basket and not get a foul call last night?  Do you think the refs get every out of bounds call correct?

I can tell I am pretty much done with this post.  I thought it would be nice to discuss how well the Celtics played and what the Cavs needed to do to stay in this series.  You guys would rather complain about the officiating even when it catered to your style of play.  Oh well, I should have known better.  

You adjust your game to how the refs are calling the game.  Period.  Blaming the refs is an excuse, not a solution.

I think you missed my point. You can adjust for the refs calling things tighter or looser but blatant bad calls you can't.   If they are allowing Perk and Varejao to set illegal screens you can adjust for that as a defense. If they are calling ticky tack fouls you can adjust for that.

Of course you can't let these things get to you but it doesn't change the fact that this was a badly officiated game.

20 more free throws and 15 more foul calls is pretty one sided and I would say so if it was the other way. I would guess 99 times out of 100 if you saw that disparity it would be for the team that won by 18 points

[PosImpos]

16-4 personal foul disparity in one half just doesn't happen if the refs are making calls objectively.  Bottom line, end of story.

That said, I agree that the reffing, while bad, hasn't had a huge impact on this series (yet).

If the Cavs (or the Celts) win a game primarily because of the amount of free throws they take, especially in the fourth quarter, then I will become annoyed.

[MMacOH]

Friday will be interesting.  Brown is good at making adjustments when he has time to review film and strategize.

Some other notes:

AV's back is apparently very tight and a real concern.  Bad news for the Cavs.

Mike Brown ripped the team in the locker room, and apparently he was the most animated he has ever been.  It's only taken him 3 years to wake up.


Also, I'm not leaving, there a lot of great people here.  Plus, I'm not 6 years old, I don't just pick up my ball and go home.