JO wants to play HOW many more years?

[Finkelskyhook]

 I don't care about his prior reputation for being soft, but it had a noticeable effect on his game.

?? ??

I do.  Not to mention that you could rely on him playing 45 games a season until his contract year?  This is a person who shows up when he feels like showing up.

I would rather have two Sheeds on my team than one O'Neal.

[Brendan]

Let's say the C's could trade Rasheed away to say Philly(if Larry Brown ends up there) for Jason Kapono, I wouldn't mind giving O'Neal a deal of say 2 years and $6-8 million to be our backup center.

It would move Baby into his more natural position of mid range perimeter big, would lose us that third year of the Rasheed debacle of a contract and give the C's a great three point shooter coming off the bench in Kapono. With a resigned Tony Allen and enough money left over from the MLE to sign a free agent PG like Steve Blake or Earl Watson, that could be an interesting team next year:

Rondo/Blake
Ray/Tony
Pierce/Kapono
KG/Baby
Perk/O'Neal

and two draft picks and a vet minimum guy or two.

It might not be a perfect title contending team but if free agents move around a lot next year, this team in it's fourth year together would be formidable. It also would have Pierce, Kapono, Davis,  and Perk coming off the books in 2011 and KG, Ray, Tony, JO, and Blake coming off the books in 2012.

A post of yours I actually agree with! If you get Blake and Kapono - not sure you need to keep T. Allen - he won't play much (unless Kapono gets in the dog house.) I would keep him at a reasonable two year deal, and he's probably worth more here than anywhere else.

[Who]

Starting Centers -- Horford, Perk, Tyson, Noah, Shaq, Haywood, Nene, Big Ben, Biedrins, Yao, Hibbert, Kaman, Bynum, Gasol, Jermaine, Bogut, Darko, Brook Lopez, Lee, Okafor, Krstic, Dwight, Dalembert, Lopez, Oden, Thompson, Duncan, Bargnani, Okur, Blatche

First Big Off Bench -- Zaza, Sheed, Tyrus, Varejao, B.Miller, Dampier, Andersen, Villanueva, Turiaf, Foster, Hayes, C.Smith/Gooden, Odom, Thabeet, Haslem, K.Love, Ilyasova, Songaila, Humphries, Al Harrington, Ibaka, Gortat, Brand, Camby, Frye, Hawes, Blair, Millsap, Amir Johnson, McGee

• Relative to starting centers -- Jermaine O'Neal is in the bottom 20%
• Relative to first big men off the bench -- Jermaine O'Neal is below average but serviceable (19th-24th range)

Second Big Off Bench -- J.Smith, BBD, Nazr, J.Johnson, JJ Hickson, Najera/Thomas, Petro, Maxiell, B.Wright, J.Hill, Hansbrough, D.Jordan, J.Powell, D.Arthur, J.Anthony, K.Thomas, R.Hollins, Boone, S.Marks, Barron/Bender, R.Anderson/Bass, Speights, J.Collins, Przybilla, S.May, M.Bonner, R.Evans, K.Fesenko, J.Singleton

• Relative to second bigs off the pine -- Jermaine O'Neal is good but not exceptional

[Roy Hobbs]

Starting Centers -- Horford, Perk, Tyson, Noah, Shaq, Haywood, Nene, Big Ben, Biedrins, Yao, Hibbert, Kaman, Bynum, Gasol, Jermaine, Bogut, Darko, Brook Lopez, Lee, Okafor, Krstic, Dwight, Dalembert, Lopez, Oden, Thompson, Duncan, Bargnani, Okur, Blatche

First Big Off Bench -- Zaza, Sheed, Tyrus, Varejao, B.Miller, Dampier, Andersen, Villanueva, Turiaf, Foster, Hayes, C.Smith/Gooden, Odom, Thabeet, Haslem, K.Love, Ilyasova, Songaila, Humphries, Al Harrington, Ibaka, Gortat, Brand, Camby, Frye, Hawes, Blair, Millsap, Amir Johnson, McGee

• Relative to starting centers -- Jermaine O'Neal is in the bottom 20%
• Relative to first big men off the bench -- Jermaine O'Neal is below average but serviceable (19th-24th range)

Second Big Off Bench -- J.Smith, BBD, Nazr, J.Johnson, JJ Hickson, Najera/Thomas, Petro, Maxiell, B.Wright, J.Hill, Hansbrough, D.Jordan, J.Powell, D.Arthur, J.Anthony, K.Thomas, R.Hollins, Boone, S.Marks, Barron/Bender, R.Anderson/Bass, Speights, J.Collins, Przybilla, S.May, M.Bonner, R.Evans, K.Fesenko, J.Singleton

• Relative to second bigs off the pine -- Jermaine O'Neal is good but not exceptional

Can I ask who the 18 players in the second category are?  I see a handful of guys better than J.O., but in terms of an all-around game, I have him in the top-ten among those bench bigs.

I would have him in the bottom-third of starting centers, but as a center off the bench, I think he'd be a good fit for most teams.

[Who]

Starting Centers -- Horford, Perk, Tyson, Noah, Shaq, Haywood, Nene, Big Ben, Biedrins, Yao, Hibbert, Kaman, Bynum, Gasol, Jermaine, Bogut, Darko, Brook Lopez, Lee, Okafor, Krstic, Dwight, Dalembert, Lopez, Oden, Thompson, Duncan, Bargnani, Okur, Blatche

First Big Off Bench -- Zaza, Sheed, Tyrus, Varejao, B.Miller, Dampier, Andersen, Villanueva, Turiaf, Foster, Hayes, C.Smith/Gooden, Odom, Thabeet, Haslem, K.Love, Ilyasova, Songaila, Humphries, Al Harrington, Ibaka, Gortat, Brand, Camby, Frye, Hawes, Blair, Millsap, Amir Johnson, McGee

• Relative to starting centers -- Jermaine O'Neal is in the bottom 20%
• Relative to first big men off the bench -- Jermaine O'Neal is below average but serviceable (19th-24th range)

Second Big Off Bench -- J.Smith, BBD, Nazr, J.Johnson, JJ Hickson, Najera/Thomas, Petro, Maxiell, B.Wright, J.Hill, Hansbrough, D.Jordan, J.Powell, D.Arthur, J.Anthony, K.Thomas, R.Hollins, Boone, S.Marks, Barron/Bender, R.Anderson/Bass, Speights, J.Collins, Przybilla, S.May, M.Bonner, R.Evans, K.Fesenko, J.Singleton

• Relative to second bigs off the pine -- Jermaine O'Neal is good but not exceptional

Can I ask who the 18 players in the second category are?  I see a handful of guys better than J.O., but in terms of an all-around game, I have him in the top-ten among those bench bigs.

I would have him in the bottom-third of starting centers, but as a center off the bench, I think he'd be a good fit for most teams.

Better than JO -- 17 players -- Odom, Millsap, Varejao, Gortat, Camby, Tyrus, Dampier, Thabeet, Foster, Haslem, K.Love, Ilyasova, Blair, Amir Johnson, Ibaka ... Humphries, Hayes

Comparable to JO -- 5 players -- Zaza, Turiaf, C.Smith/Gooden, Songaila, Brand

Worse than JO -- 7 players -- Sheed, B.Miller, Villanueva, Al Harrington, Frye, Hawes, McGee,

[Brendan]

How are you assessing this Who? I don't watch enough Heat to make a subjective guess on his intangible/unmeasurables - but he's got a ~18 PER meaning he's fairly well above average in the measurable categories.

I haven't checked adjusted +/- though.

[Roy Hobbs]

Starting Centers -- Horford, Perk, Tyson, Noah, Shaq, Haywood, Nene, Big Ben, Biedrins, Yao, Hibbert, Kaman, Bynum, Gasol, Jermaine, Bogut, Darko, Brook Lopez, Lee, Okafor, Krstic, Dwight, Dalembert, Lopez, Oden, Thompson, Duncan, Bargnani, Okur, Blatche

First Big Off Bench -- Zaza, Sheed, Tyrus, Varejao, B.Miller, Dampier, Andersen, Villanueva, Turiaf, Foster, Hayes, C.Smith/Gooden, Odom, Thabeet, Haslem, K.Love, Ilyasova, Songaila, Humphries, Al Harrington, Ibaka, Gortat, Brand, Camby, Frye, Hawes, Blair, Millsap, Amir Johnson, McGee

• Relative to starting centers -- Jermaine O'Neal is in the bottom 20%
• Relative to first big men off the bench -- Jermaine O'Neal is below average but serviceable (19th-24th range)

Second Big Off Bench -- J.Smith, BBD, Nazr, J.Johnson, JJ Hickson, Najera/Thomas, Petro, Maxiell, B.Wright, J.Hill, Hansbrough, D.Jordan, J.Powell, D.Arthur, J.Anthony, K.Thomas, R.Hollins, Boone, S.Marks, Barron/Bender, R.Anderson/Bass, Speights, J.Collins, Przybilla, S.May, M.Bonner, R.Evans, K.Fesenko, J.Singleton

• Relative to second bigs off the pine -- Jermaine O'Neal is good but not exceptional

Can I ask who the 18 players in the second category are?  I see a handful of guys better than J.O., but in terms of an all-around game, I have him in the top-ten among those bench bigs.

I would have him in the bottom-third of starting centers, but as a center off the bench, I think he'd be a good fit for most teams.

Better than JO -- 17 players -- Odom, Millsap, Varejao, Gortat, Camby, Tyrus, Dampier, Thabeet, Foster, Haslem, K.Love, Ilyasova, Blair, Amir Johnson, Ibaka ... Humphries, Hayes

Comparable to JO -- 5 players -- Zaza, Turiaf, C.Smith/Gooden, Songaila, Brand

Worse than JO -- 7 players -- Sheed, B.Miller, Villanueva, Al Harrington, Frye, Hawes, McGee,

How, for instance, is Thabeet better than JO?  Or Jeff Foster?  Or Amir? Or Humphries? 

If those guys are better, they're not showing it on either end. 

[Who]

How are you assessing this Who? I don't watch enough Heat to make a subjective guess on his intangible/unmeasurables - but he's got a ~18 PER meaning he's fairly well above average in the measurable categories.

I haven't checked adjusted +/- though.

Defense = Mediocre to slightly above average
Rebounding = Slightly below average

Moderate contributions on the defensive end and the backboards.

Offense = (1) good complementary offensive big man (2) very poor when asked to create his own offense.

Good contributions offensively in a complementary role and an overwhelming liability (to a team's offense + his own individual contributions) when asked to create offensively.

[Who]

Starting Centers -- Horford, Perk, Tyson, Noah, Shaq, Haywood, Nene, Big Ben, Biedrins, Yao, Hibbert, Kaman, Bynum, Gasol, Jermaine, Bogut, Darko, Brook Lopez, Lee, Okafor, Krstic, Dwight, Dalembert, Lopez, Oden, Thompson, Duncan, Bargnani, Okur, Blatche

First Big Off Bench -- Zaza, Sheed, Tyrus, Varejao, B.Miller, Dampier, Andersen, Villanueva, Turiaf, Foster, Hayes, C.Smith/Gooden, Odom, Thabeet, Haslem, K.Love, Ilyasova, Songaila, Humphries, Al Harrington, Ibaka, Gortat, Brand, Camby, Frye, Hawes, Blair, Millsap, Amir Johnson, McGee

• Relative to starting centers -- Jermaine O'Neal is in the bottom 20%
• Relative to first big men off the bench -- Jermaine O'Neal is below average but serviceable (19th-24th range)

Second Big Off Bench -- J.Smith, BBD, Nazr, J.Johnson, JJ Hickson, Najera/Thomas, Petro, Maxiell, B.Wright, J.Hill, Hansbrough, D.Jordan, J.Powell, D.Arthur, J.Anthony, K.Thomas, R.Hollins, Boone, S.Marks, Barron/Bender, R.Anderson/Bass, Speights, J.Collins, Przybilla, S.May, M.Bonner, R.Evans, K.Fesenko, J.Singleton

• Relative to second bigs off the pine -- Jermaine O'Neal is good but not exceptional

Can I ask who the 18 players in the second category are?  I see a handful of guys better than J.O., but in terms of an all-around game, I have him in the top-ten among those bench bigs.

I would have him in the bottom-third of starting centers, but as a center off the bench, I think he'd be a good fit for most teams.

Better than JO -- 17 players -- Odom, Millsap, Varejao, Gortat, Camby, Tyrus, Dampier, Thabeet, Foster, Haslem, K.Love, Ilyasova, Blair, Amir Johnson, Ibaka ... Humphries, Hayes

Comparable to JO -- 5 players -- Zaza, Turiaf, C.Smith/Gooden, Songaila, Brand

Worse than JO -- 7 players -- Sheed, B.Miller, Villanueva, Al Harrington, Frye, Hawes, McGee,

How, for instance, is Thabeet better than JO?  Or Jeff Foster?  Or Amir? Or Humphries? 

If those guys are better, they're not showing it on either end. 

Thabeet = A much better rebounder (16.1% to 14.3%) + slightly superior defender + sticks to his role more effectively offensively which allows him to be a more consistent contributor offensively (TS% of 60%).

Foster = Vastly superior rebounder (17.3% to 14.3%) + slightly better defender and comparable offensive player

Amir Johnson = Much better rebounder (16.3% to 14.3%) + better offensive player (more efficient = TS% of 62%) + slightly better defensive player (pick and roll defense, transition defense ... main areas)

Kris Humphries = Better rebounder (16.2% to 14.3%) + comparable defensive player + comparable offensive player

The player I'm not sure of in that 17 man list is Chuck Hayes. He could be in the group below. I decided to keep him in it because I felt Hayes' very good defense + good-to-very good rebounding were more valuable than Jermaine's superior offensive game ... but that one is a close call. Could be put in the comparable group.

[Who]

Jermaine O'Neal just finished his most efficient offensive season of his career posting a TS% of 56% (previous career best was 53% and career average was 51.5%).

He did this by accepting his complementary role for most of the season (about 80-85% of the time) + by playing alongside D.Wade and playing off of his creativity and ability to create easy shots for himself.

Jermaine O'Neal's offensive contributions will fall off the map (efficiency wise) once he doesn't have a D-Wade like player alongside him and/or if he is put in a situation that asks or allows (since his ego is still very large) Jermaine to create his own offense.

Expecting Jermaine O'Neal to continue to this season's pace is a very dangerous strategy and more likely to backfire than to work out.

[Eja117]

I guess the only issue I have with the quote is how he puts making a Nike commercial up there with All-NBA. When did a Nike commercial become an accomplishment? Do guys these days seriously say "Well what I'd really like to achieve is a Nike commercial"?

Maybe he could have added a Madden/NBA Live video game cover or commemorative plates to his sentence. 

[nickagneta]

Starting Centers -- Horford, Perk, Tyson, Noah, Shaq, Haywood, Nene, Big Ben, Biedrins, Yao, Hibbert, Kaman, Bynum, Gasol, Jermaine, Bogut, Darko, Brook Lopez, Lee, Okafor, Krstic, Dwight, Dalembert, Lopez, Oden, Thompson, Duncan, Bargnani, Okur, Blatche

First Big Off Bench -- Zaza, Sheed, Tyrus, Varejao, B.Miller, Dampier, Andersen, Villanueva, Turiaf, Foster, Hayes, C.Smith/Gooden, Odom, Thabeet, Haslem, K.Love, Ilyasova, Songaila, Humphries, Al Harrington, Ibaka, Gortat, Brand, Camby, Frye, Hawes, Blair, Millsap, Amir Johnson, McGee

• Relative to starting centers -- Jermaine O'Neal is in the bottom 20%
• Relative to first big men off the bench -- Jermaine O'Neal is below average but serviceable (19th-24th range)

Second Big Off Bench -- J.Smith, BBD, Nazr, J.Johnson, JJ Hickson, Najera/Thomas, Petro, Maxiell, B.Wright, J.Hill, Hansbrough, D.Jordan, J.Powell, D.Arthur, J.Anthony, K.Thomas, R.Hollins, Boone, S.Marks, Barron/Bender, R.Anderson/Bass, Speights, J.Collins, Przybilla, S.May, M.Bonner, R.Evans, K.Fesenko, J.Singleton

• Relative to second bigs off the pine -- Jermaine O'Neal is good but not exceptional

Can I ask who the 18 players in the second category are?  I see a handful of guys better than J.O., but in terms of an all-around game, I have him in the top-ten among those bench bigs.

I would have him in the bottom-third of starting centers, but as a center off the bench, I think he'd be a good fit for most teams.

Better than JO -- 17 players -- Odom, Millsap, Varejao, Gortat, Camby, Tyrus, Dampier, Thabeet, Foster, Haslem, K.Love, Ilyasova, Blair, Amir Johnson, Ibaka ... Humphries, Hayes

Comparable to JO -- 5 players -- Zaza, Turiaf, C.Smith/Gooden, Songaila, Brand

Worse than JO -- 7 players -- Sheed, B.Miller, Villanueva, Al Harrington, Frye, Hawes, McGee,

How, for instance, is Thabeet better than JO?  Or Jeff Foster?  Or Amir? Or Humphries? 

If those guys are better, they're not showing it on either end. 

Gotta agree with Roy here.

I don't see that more than 10 or so of that list of bench bigs are demonstrably better than O'Neal.

Odom
Varejao
Millsap
Camby
Love
Thomas
Gortat
Ilyasova
Ibaka - maybe

After that, I'm sorry but I can not for the life of me say that anyone on that list is definitely better than O'Neal. Even then I am pushing it somewhat with Gortat, Ibaka and Ilyasova but their hustle, energy and/or attitude make them better than O'Neal in my mind.

[Chris]

Basically, I think JO is at the same point of his career as KG is.  I think they both have similar amounts of wear and tear on their bodies.

The difference of course is that KG came from a significantly higher peak, and so he is still an above average NBA starter, at this point in his career, while JO is now just an average NBA rotation player.

If I were a contender, I would certainly give him a look as a 15-20 minute per game guy who can still block some shots, and be a decent offensive player.

[Brendan]

Basically, I think JO is at the same point of his career as KG is.  I think they both have similar amounts of wear and tear on their bodies.

The difference of course is that KG came from a significantly higher peak, and so he is still an above average NBA starter, at this point in his career, while JO is now just an average NBA rotation player.

If I were a contender, I would certainly give him a look as a 15-20 minute per game guy who can still block some shots, and be a decent offensive player.

FYI - Since JO didn't play much early on and missed signifigant time, KG has practically twice as many minutes 40+k versus 25k. JO probably has less wear and tear, he's just fragile to begin with and has definately lost a fair amount of athleticism (or motivation.)

[acieEarl]

I'd take bbaby over him in a heartbeat and that's not just because I drink the koolaid. You'd be crazy to offer him anymore than 2-3 year on cheap money. He's garbage and only getting older.