Danny Ainge's job performance since the 2007 off season

[JSD]

But Brendan, Posey had an offer for 4 years. I swear I remember reading that we upped our offer to the MLE for 3 years, but Posey sided with the extra year.

In 2008, I'm saying in 2007 he probably could have got Posey to sign for more than one year.

The C's didn't have enough money in 2007 to give Posey a big deal. Posey signed at a severe discount in 2007 for all that Boston had left to offer (about 3.2 million), with the intent to opt out and get paid in 2008.

They had enough money just refused to go the extra year and at the 11th hour Posey went to the Hornets.

It was a mistake by Ainge.

[Brendan]

But Brendan, Posey had an offer for 4 years. I swear I remember reading that we upped our offer to the MLE for 3 years, but Posey sided with the extra year.

In 2008, I'm saying in 2007 he probably could have got Posey to sign for more than one year.

The C's didn't have enough money in 2007 to give Posey a big deal. Posey signed at a severe discount in 2007 for all that Boston had left to offer (about 3.2 million), with the intent to opt out and get paid in 2008.

False - they had the full MLE available and could have signed him for more money. I can't believe that DA couldn't find an extra million or two in the 2008/9 season for Posey. Maybe it means he doesn't buy Walker or lets House or Allen go the next year, or dumps a guy for salary reasons, but they had money they could have spent.

That being said, I'm not convinced Posey would have been exactly the same player if he had a multiyear and even if he was he's declined sharply. Marginally improves the 2008/9 team to have him there and is wash with Finley this year.

[Brendan]

They had enough money just refused to go the extra year and at the 11th hour Posey went to the Hornets.

It was a mistake by Ainge.

I'm talking about when Ainge did sign Posey in 2007. In retrospect, locking Posey into a three year deal (I'm assuming it would have been possible) would have been a smart strategic move.

I think on net DA did the right thing letting Posey go after 2008, four years at that price, not worth the production. However he should have cut ties with Posey right away - made him his best final offer and then looked elsewhere. Maggette was a waste of time too.

[Mr October]

But Brendan, Posey had an offer for 4 years. I swear I remember reading that we upped our offer to the MLE for 3 years, but Posey sided with the extra year.

In 2008, I'm saying in 2007 he probably could have got Posey to sign for more than one year.

The C's didn't have enough money in 2007 to give Posey a big deal. Posey signed at a severe discount in 2007 for all that Boston had left to offer (about 3.2 million), with the intent to opt out and get paid in 2008.

False - they had the full MLE available and could have signed him for more money. I can't believe that DA couldn't find an extra million or two in the 2008/9 season for Posey. Maybe it means he doesn't buy Walker or lets House or Allen go the next year, or dumps a guy for salary reasons, but they had money they could have spent.

That being said, I'm not convinced Posey would have been exactly the same player if he had a multiyear and even if he was he's declined sharply. Marginally improves the 2008/9 team to have him there and is wash with Finley this year.

Not in 2007. Part of the MLE went to House - about 1.8 million or so.

[Mr October]

But Brendan, Posey had an offer for 4 years. I swear I remember reading that we upped our offer to the MLE for 3 years, but Posey sided with the extra year.

In 2008, I'm saying in 2007 he probably could have got Posey to sign for more than one year.

The C's didn't have enough money in 2007 to give Posey a big deal. Posey signed at a severe discount in 2007 for all that Boston had left to offer (about 3.2 million), with the intent to opt out and get paid in 2008.

They had enough money just refused to go the extra year and at the 11th hour Posey went to the Hornets.

It was a mistake by Ainge.

You're mixing 2007 with 2008.

I was commenting on 2007. In 2007, the C's signed House for about 1.8, leaving about 3.2 for Posey.

In 2008, the C's tried to keep Posey for the full MLE.

[JSD]

They had enough money just refused to go the extra year and at the 11th hour Posey went to the Hornets.

It was a mistake by Ainge.

I'm talking about when Ainge did sign Posey in 2007. In retrospect, locking Posey into a three year deal (I'm assuming it would have been possible) would have been a smart strategic move.

I think on net DA did the right thing letting Posey go after 2008, four years at that price, not worth the production. However he should have cut ties with Posey right away - made him his best final offer and then looked elsewhere. Maggette was a waste of time too.

In the summer of 08, Ainge misread what was going to be available the following summer. If they had signed Posey they probably wouldn't have overpaid for Wallace. Therefore, it was a mistake.

In retrospect, We would have been better off giving a crap player the full MLE for 1 year and using him as an expiring contract at the world famous deadline before 2010. That's the kind of outside the box thinking Ainge usually implements.

[JSD]

But Brendan, Posey had an offer for 4 years. I swear I remember reading that we upped our offer to the MLE for 3 years, but Posey sided with the extra year.

In 2008, I'm saying in 2007 he probably could have got Posey to sign for more than one year.

The C's didn't have enough money in 2007 to give Posey a big deal. Posey signed at a severe discount in 2007 for all that Boston had left to offer (about 3.2 million), with the intent to opt out and get paid in 2008.

They had enough money just refused to go the extra year and at the 11th hour Posey went to the Hornets.

It was a mistake by Ainge.

You're mixing 2007 with 2008.

I was commenting on 2007. In 2007, the C's signed House for about 1.8, leaving about 3.2 for Posey.

In 2008, the C's tried to keep Posey for the full MLE.

You're right, my bad.

[jdpapa3]

They had enough money just refused to go the extra year and at the 11th hour Posey went to the Hornets.

It was a mistake by Ainge.

Really disagree with you here. Posey has already fallen off of a cliff and there are still 2 years remaining on his deal. The guy shot 36.5% from the field this year.

And Brendan: sorry I didn't see that you were saying 2007 instead of 2008.

[JSD]

They had enough money just refused to go the extra year and at the 11th hour Posey went to the Hornets.

It was a mistake by Ainge.

Really disagree with you here. Posey has already fallen off of a cliff and there are still 2 years remaining on his deal. The guy shot 36.5% from the field this year.

And Brendan: sorry I didn't see that you were saying 2007 instead of 2008.

It was a mistake not signing Posey and using the money on Wallace. But the signing of either one didn't have (or wouldn't) work out.

He should have given Gerald Green or Antoine Walker a 1 year full MLE deal and traded him at the deadline as an expiring  

[Brendan]

But Brendan, Posey had an offer for 4 years. I swear I remember reading that we upped our offer to the MLE for 3 years, but Posey sided with the extra year.

In 2008, I'm saying in 2007 he probably could have got Posey to sign for more than one year.

The C's didn't have enough money in 2007 to give Posey a big deal. Posey signed at a severe discount in 2007 for all that Boston had left to offer (about 3.2 million), with the intent to opt out and get paid in 2008.

False - they had the full MLE available and could have signed him for more money. I can't believe that DA couldn't find an extra million or two in the 2008/9 season for Posey. Maybe it means he doesn't buy Walker or lets House or Allen go the next year, or dumps a guy for salary reasons, but they had money they could have spent.

That being said, I'm not convinced Posey would have been exactly the same player if he had a multiyear and even if he was he's declined sharply. Marginally improves the 2008/9 team to have him there and is wash with Finley this year.

Not in 2007. Part of the MLE went to House - about 1.8 million or so.

They could have used the LLE for House - initial reports had him signing using the LLE IIRC and it would have been right about what he made in 2007/8.

[BballTim]

  This is all 20-20 hindsight. You're saying Danny should have offered Posey and Birdman contracts that were wildly higher than anyone else in the league was going to offer them. Posey was sitting around unsigned well over a month into the FA period. Birdman was, I seem to recall, clearly outplayed by Baby during his tryout and signed something like a 1 year min deal with Denver.

I agree in 2007 he would have been overpaying for Posey some, but in 2008 he would have been getting Posey on a two year MLE deal (which is what he wanted.)

Ditto for Birdman - it would have been a risk to sign him to a multi year deal, but actually I think we could have got him using PART of the MLE not all, sorry if that's not clear.

And yes its hindsight, but so what? That's a big part of how I evaluate front office, coaches, and players. In hindsight DA could have been a bit more strategic. In hindsight he got us a championship in 2008 (I mean if they lose in 7 to LAL do you feel the same about DA? But that would be in hindsight.)

  I think that there are different levels of hindsight. It's one thing to say that Danny should have signed Anderson over POB. It's another to say that he should have signed Anderson or Posey to deals that were both millions a year more and years longer than any gm in the league would have offered them.

[slamtheking]

Also, I read somewhere that he offered Anderson a deal but Chris wanted to go back to Denver.

I've never read that Danny offered a contract, and I've followed this story fairly closely.  I remember Andersen saying that he'd be interested in Boston around the time of his workout here, and I read that Andersen said that he was glad he signed with Denver several months after he signed his contract, but I've never seen him say "Boston offered me a deal, but I turned it down".

You are right, Andersen was never offered a contract.  He wanted to come here and was dissapointed that Danny chose POB instead.

Easily Ainge's biggest failure that we know of in the big 3 era. ...perhaps the only big failure in this era.

choosing POB over Andersen is definitely a poor decision in hindsight but I hardly think it qualifies as "biggest failure".
I think "failure" is a bit strong to apply to a 5th big man option.  Even then, it's hardly his biggest mistake.  I'd consider the lack of a good replacement for Posey to be the biggest mistake.

My point being that if Andersen was Ainge's biggest failure, then he has done a pretty darn good job.

The trick with Posey was money and available alternatives. Posey was way underpaid when the C's signed him in 2007. Then in 2008, he wanted compensation. Even in the 2nd year of his 4 year deal with New Orleans, he is clearly viewed as over paid. He was on his last legs when we had him, and he was great. Now he is over 30 and the minutes are catching up with him. In his 2nd year in New Orleans, he is shooting 36 % from the field.

As for alternatives, who should the C's have gotten? Who was available? Not much. Tony Allen was chosen in 2008, and the alternates were other 9th or 10th-men types. IN 2009, the C's heavily persued Grant Hill, but he chose to stay with Nash in Phoenix.

Posey was essentially irreplaceable - even modern Posey couldn't replace 2007-08 Posey.   ...I don't blame that on Ainge.

Keeping that in mind the combo of TOny Allen, Finely and Daniels have done/are doing an adequate job.

In the context of your explanation here about Birdman, I agree with what you're saying.  The rest of it we're on the same page.

[nickagneta]

Nick, I used to agree with you a lot before, but lately I find it harder and harder to.  Before the playoffs began you started a large number of threads with the underlying "doom and gloom" feel to them about how this team is done and won't do anything in the playoffs.  In fact, I can't recall the last thread you started that had a feeling of (good) excitement in it.

Gee, I'm sorry for the disappointment but sometimes these things run in cycles. I'm not going to write positive only pieces and I'm not going to write negative only pieces. I always tend to write what happens to be on my mind.

If the Celtics have been less than stellar since Christmas and I want to address some stuff that was on my mind regarding why, am I suppose to not write about it because I haven't started enough positive, praising, feel good pieces recently? I mean really, except for the first three game of this series, has there been a whole heck of a lot to feel great about regarding what this team has done since Christmas?

I still love them. I still cheer until I have no voice for them to win. I want to win another championship with this group in the worst way. But in reflecting back on some stuff, it hasn't been all positive good stuff and sometimes I want to talk about that not so nice stuff.

[Mr October]

But Brendan, Posey had an offer for 4 years. I swear I remember reading that we upped our offer to the MLE for 3 years, but Posey sided with the extra year.

In 2008, I'm saying in 2007 he probably could have got Posey to sign for more than one year.

The C's didn't have enough money in 2007 to give Posey a big deal. Posey signed at a severe discount in 2007 for all that Boston had left to offer (about 3.2 million), with the intent to opt out and get paid in 2008.

False - they had the full MLE available and could have signed him for more money. I can't believe that DA couldn't find an extra million or two in the 2008/9 season for Posey. Maybe it means he doesn't buy Walker or lets House or Allen go the next year, or dumps a guy for salary reasons, but they had money they could have spent.

That being said, I'm not convinced Posey would have been exactly the same player if he had a multiyear and even if he was he's declined sharply. Marginally improves the 2008/9 team to have him there and is wash with Finley this year.

Not in 2007. Part of the MLE went to House - about 1.8 million or so.

They could have used the LLE for House - initial reports had him signing using the LLE IIRC and it would have been right about what he made in 2007/8.

At the time of the House signing, Posey wasn't a reasonable possibility. It was really a fluke that he was available 2 months after the start of free agency. He suffered from the crunch of other signings. It was impossible to fully predict that. Plus early in free agency Posey thought he would do better than the MLE. After all he had a championship ring and was coming off a 7 or 8 million dollar year, and was still just barely in his prime.

Going so far as to criticize Ainge for using a pice of the MLE on House instead of the LLE, knowing that Posey would still be available a month later is way too much 20/20 hindsight for me. No GM is a perfect robot, capable of foreseeing who all the gems will be in a dumpster of late draft picks and cheap free agents.

It is really tricky to determine what summer is a good summer to use the LLE. A GM must always wonder if a better option will be available the following summer.

[nickagneta]

BTW, I still think Danny Ainge is an exceptional General Manager and President of this team and I really wouldn't want any other person running the team right now. I think he is a great judge of talent when drafting. He was all over Kevin Durant and Tyreke Evans over other widely preferred draft choices that others were looking at. His knack of hitting later in the draft is bettered only by the management group in San Antonio, IMO. He also is a great negotiator and has landed some great bargains(Baby's new contract, Rondo's new deal, Perk's second contract, Tony Allen's deal, and Daniels deal was good though he hasn't been good). He also has been great with his hiring decisions on the coaching staff.

I'm critical of his recent moves in trying to build a bench but overall, I still think Danny is one of the best GM's in the game. I just think he should bear some of the fault for what was a disappointing regular season. As I said before, this is a thread I wanted to do before the playoffs started but I was to busy sitting on beaches, drinking mojitos and eating barbecue.