Danny Ainge's job performance since the 2007 off season

[Kwhit10]

I just have to say I really disliked that fouling machine Mikki Moore.

[openairmovie]

Ive been on Ainge's case for a while now,  but every time I came after him I was labled a pink hat or any of that crap

But the facts are the facts

Post Big 3 Deal Era, the only useful signings that were made were:

Posey, House, PJ , Quis (yes I still think he was a positive), Resigning Rondo

THATS IT

Trade for Nate-Failure - Though it was hyped to the moon
Signing Mikki Moore- Failure-  Though all we heard was how good of an outside shooter he was
Signing of Starbury- Failure -   see above
Signing of Rasheed- Failure-  see above
Pollard-  Failure-  didnt do anything for this team
Cassell-  50/50- hardly played which is a minus but was a coach in some ways


Point is all we hear from the WEEI brood  is how great these moves are when they are made, but deep down, they suck. People defend Ainge like they do Theo, regardless of the bonehead moves that they make. Its blind faith IMO, blind faith that they are making the right moves.  Take the eye tests on some of these things  and not the WEEI stat test.  Did you REALLY think Mikki Moore was going to help this team?  Marbury? Nate?   You shouldn't of if you knew basketball at all.  People give ainge an extra window for getting the Big 3 together, but as I've always said, he made that move primarily to save his job. The teams he had put together prior to that were a joke, see 06-07 Celtics. If he didnt make that move he'd be out of a job. With the gun to his head he made the move. If we got the 2 or 1 pick  we'd have taken durant and we'd still be building. Would he have a job then? Sure, because its a team that has to build from the bottom up. But when your team is already at the top in 08, and you cannot find ways to fill your biggest needs (Getting younger)   then you are just not doing your job, and that is what got him in the 06-07 hole to begin with.

[Cman]

This thread is a rehash of his job as a whole. I won't rehash every single particular off season move with "what could he have done differently" moves. The possibilities are endless and it all comes back to what he DID do. And what he did do didn't work, IMO.

Actually, per your original post, this thread is a rehash of two seasons, taking the prior seasons as given.  So I think it makes sense to rehash the (relatively) few signings over the last two summers.  ie: no one of interest in 2008, and Daniels and Wallace in 2009.

[Fafnir]

If what you say is true, Danny is supposed to figure out how Daniels fits and interacts with 7 other players? No GM can do that! Both guys have their warts, but their "attitudes" aren't the problem its their play.

Yes, GM's do it all the time with free agents and draftees in EVERY sport.

Do you really think that it's any surprise that Nate Robinson isn't fitting into this team? The writing was on the wall that this guy wasn't the right fit mentally or personality wise. Danny ignored that. Do you think Ron Artest would have been a good personality fit here? Or Quentin Richardson? Or someone lazy like Eddie Curry or Patrick O'Bryant?

I think it's pretty clear that Danny judges talent and film but sometimes misses out completely in the extraneous other things that need to be taken into account as to whether a player is a good fit for an organization, that being personality, work ethic, personal makeup, attitude, etc. He has a decent sized list of misses in this regard. Blount, Banks, Telfair, O'Bryant, Marbury, Wallace, Daniels, Robinson, Giddens.

What about Rondo being difficult to coach, stubborn. For every knucklehead who kills his team there is another who you don't hear about because he can play.

Rasheed's always been a head case, he was still one of the best players in the NBA for years. The same can be said of Ron Artest. Look at Amar'e he's a cancer when things go bad, and an all-star when they go well. Paul Pierce has had his moments!

Chemistry is an issue when you can't play.

[slamtheking]

I understand what you're driving at but I'm not in complete agreement.

I think Danny botched the offseason after the championship by not doing a better job to solidify the bench.  He needed to be more assertive in getting the team structured rather than sit back and let the Posey scenario play out as it did.  By sitting back, he was left with few options and they weren't terribly good ones.  Basically that offseason was lousy on his part.

This past offseason he was more assertive in getting the bench issues addressed and by all accounts I consider him successful in those regards. 
* He got the best big man available (in the opinions of many at that time). 
* He got a versatile wing that could cover multiple positions and had multiple skills. 
* He resigned BBD to a reasonable deal.  All very good moves at the time. 

Even in-season, the 2 main deals were reasonable:
* signing Finley which has definitely been a good move on all accounts
* the trade for Nate which does have its merits (he's a better ballhandler and scorer than House was and that was the primary reason for the deal.  As much as I didn't want to trade Walker, the reality was he was not going to see the court with Doc coaching so Danny moved a player that wasn't contributing).

So I would consider him to have had one bad offseason and one good one.  Any failures by the players he acquired this year are strictly on the players, not Danny.  If Sheed and Daniels simply matched their level of play from the prior year, which wouldn't be a stretch to expect, this discussion wouldn't be occurring.

[nickagneta]

If we lose in the first round, Nick, I will agree with you that Danny is a failure and will commiserate with you all summer.  I will, however, not take failure for granted and will be watching the rest of the playoffs.  What, in your consideration, would change your opinion to success?  Finals appearance, Championship?  Or would your opinion stay the same regardless of position?

Regarding Danny's performance in helping this team win games, it's not going to change unless Marquis Daniels and Rasheed Wallace suddenly start making major contributions in helping this team win games. The core that is really winning the games thus far this post season has been the starters and Glen Davis and Tony Allen. All seven of those guys were here when the 2007-08 season started. Who has he added since that season started that has had a major impact in this team winning important games other than Sam Cassell and PJ Brown?

[Cman]

But the facts are the facts

The facts are: Danny Ainge assembled a team that won the championship in remarkable fashion against the Lakers in 2007.

The facts are: Theo put together two championships in 2004 and 2007, when the prior time that was done was ..... generations ago (I bring up Theo bc openairmovie called him out).

Let's not forget those facts.

Now, the question remains, could Danny have done better since 2007?  In retrospect, yes. Particularly in the summer of 2008.  But we all need to keep in mind the constraints under which DA has been operating (luxury tax, few tradeable assets).

Here's an additional fact: without KG, the Celtics nearly made it to the ECF.  That's pretty impressive, IMHO.

Here's an additional fact: the jury is still out on the 2009-2010 season.

[Donoghus]

He did a heckuva job revamping and establishing the core starters.  Barring injuries, we've had a consistent starting five for 3 seasons now.  And its been a very effective one.

Ainge has been a bit more hit or miss on supplementary guys.  I don't think any of us could've predicted Sheed's play this season.  At the time, I thought it was a "no-brainer" and I'm willing to bet about 99% of Celtics fans were in the same boat.  Daniels was an injury concern that was a bit of a gamble to start of with and that has been very lackluster, especially since his return from injury.  Resigning BBD has seen its ups & downs but the price isn't terribly bad.  The Rondo extension was an absolute steal, IMO.  Very reasonable and you're locking down the guy that really makes it all happen.  

The Eddie trade has proven to be so-so.  The Walker lovers will say its a terrible trade.  Nate's had his moments but I expected a bit more.  I think the Finley signing was a good one.  He isn't the guy he once was, but he seems to know his role and plays the good warrior.  He's made some key jumpers down the stretch.  

To me, I guess the question to ask is whether or not Danny has been anymore hit or miss with the supplementary players than any other GM in the league?  Filling out the roster isn't the exact thing, especially in a league dictated by a guaranteed contracts and salary cap.  He's definitely made mistakes but you could argue less so than many others in the league.  

[Roy Hobbs]

Ive been on Ainge's case for a while now,  but every time I came after him I was labled a pink hat or any of that crap

But the facts are the facts

Post Big 3 Deal Era, the only useful signings that were made were:

Posey, House, PJ , Quis (yes I still think he was a positive), Resigning Rondo

THATS IT

Eh...  Re-signing BBD and signing Shelden to a minimum contract worked out pretty well, and both are on very good contracts.  Re-signing Tony was a pretty decent move, at least in terms of this season.

Also, I think you're too hard on some of the deals you label failures.  Scot Pollard was injured, but as a 15th man he was fine.  He filled in occasionally, and kept the team loose.  Most of the other moves you label as failures were no risk, small money deals.  They may not have paid dividends, but they didn't really hurt the team much.

I think the POB signing was the worst of Danny's recent signings (for a variety of reasons, including because it was at the expense of Chris Andersen), with the Rasheed deal following closely behind (due to failure to meet what seemed like reasonable expectations). 

[JSD]

The MLE and LLE are the true indicators of how DA has done since the 2007 Off-season.

I don't agree that Ainge deserves a C+ or B- for his work in this short window of time. Signing TA and EH instead of Posey was a mistake when considering the contract aligned to expire with KG anyway making the extra year irrelevant with Posey's "expiring" eventually becoming an asset.

Signing Rasheed to an over generous 3 year deal while the Lakers land Artest, Rockets get Ariza and Magic retain Gortat for similar money was also poor but can be considered average when exploring the other options out there at the time... Stealing a Lamar Odom or David Lee would have been absolutely huge.

Ainge total body of work is an A- or B+, but the last couple of years isn't above a D.

[Fafnir]

The MLE and LLE are the true indicators of how DA has done since the 2007 Off-season.

I don't agree that Ainge deserves a C+ or B- for his work in this short window of time. Signing TA and EH instead of Posey was a mistake when considering the contract aligned to expire with KG anyway making the extra year irrelevant with Posey's "expiring" eventually becoming an asset.

Signing Rasheed to an over generous 3 year deal while the Lakers land Artest, Rockets get Ariza and Magic retain Gortat for similar money was also poor but can be considered average when exploring the other options out there at the time... Stealing a Lamar Odom or David Lee would have been absolutely huge.

Ainge total body of work is an A- or B+, but the last couple of years isn't above a D.

Fair enough, but Gortat/David Lee/Odom were never options that could have happened.

Lee would never sign just an MLE deal, Gortat signed the full MLE right away from Dallas (we didn't have a starting job to offer him), and Odom was never leaving LA for any place unless it was for more money.

[thirstyboots18]

Sometimes it is not who you add, but who you don't eliminate.  I know you probably don't give much credence to this, but even keeping TA as opposed to Powe, or keeping RR instead of Al Jefferson changed this team totally.  We might have had another great point guard instead of Rondo, but it was with Rondo that we won a championship, and it is with this "team" that I hope we win another.  That's because I think of it as a "team" and not as a bunch of individual players thrown together into a room.  For example, I have not always been the loudest cheerleader for Glen Davis, but he is a member of "my team" and therefore I want him to make me eat my words.  And, I want the "team" to make you eat yours,   .  Guess that is not going to happen, though...

[BballTim]

I hated the 2008 off-season, and thought that it made very little sense.  I thought the "dumpster diving" was a terrible strategy, and Danny got burned for it.

Did he? I agree not getting a suitable backup wing was a bad move.

But if we go by only results matter, avoiding spending money worked out because with KG's knee injury we weren't winning anyways.

Eh...  If nothing else, signing some legit players could have gotten the Celts past Orlando (earning the owners a ton more in playoff revenue), or could have set the team up better for this past off-season.

The 2008 off-season was an abject disaster.  Just because KG got injured doesn't absolve Danny for basically wasting an entire off-season on garbage players.

  I disagree with both of these points. For one thing, the offseason wasn't a disaster. If KG hadn't been injured we had as good a shot as anyone else at winning the title. Secondly, slightly better backups wouldn't have made much of a difference in the playoffs, unless they were PFs, and we started the season with KG/Baby/Powe at that spot.

[BballTim]

First, James Posey wasn't the only other move or possibility of use for that 2008 MLE other than re-signing Eddie House and Patrick O'Bryant(Tony Allen was signed using Bird rights). There were a great other possible players that could have been signed that might have made this team better long term.

Who else was out there?

Remember by the time Posey got the fourth year almost all of the other options had signed.

I'm not going to rehash this as their are 20 page threads in the archives that discussed this. I will state what I wrote when that off season started. My opinion then was to forget Posey from the beginning and concentrate on using the MLE, LLE and other means right away to strike at other players. If I remember right the players I wanted targeted were Roger Mason and Matt Barnes and Kurt Thomas.

  You're assuming that you have your pick of any player that's a free agent. That's not really the case. Aside from players that want to play on warm weather teams, many teams have more backup minutes available than we did with Ray and Paul and KG playing.

[JSD]

The MLE and LLE are the true indicators of how DA has done since the 2007 Off-season.

I don't agree that Ainge deserves a C+ or B- for his work in this short window of time. Signing TA and EH instead of Posey was a mistake when considering the contract aligned to expire with KG anyway making the extra year irrelevant with Posey's "expiring" eventually becoming an asset.

Signing Rasheed to an over generous 3 year deal while the Lakers land Artest, Rockets get Ariza and Magic retain Gortat for similar money was also poor but can be considered average when exploring the other options out there at the time... Stealing a Lamar Odom or David Lee would have been absolutely huge.

Ainge total body of work is an A- or B+, but the last couple of years isn't above a D.

Fair enough, but Gortat/David Lee/Odom were never options that could have happened.

Lee would never sign just an MLE deal, Gortat signed the full MLE right away from Dallas (we didn't have a starting job to offer him), and Odom was never leaving LA for any place unless it was for more money.

Right, but even when considering the remaining options it doesn't make overpaying Rasheed for multiple years anything above mediocrity.