Danny Ainge's job performance since the 2007 off season

[Fafnir]

Fourth, I agree with the assessment that where GM's make their mark is in assembling a starting five. But where they win championships is in complimenting those top 5 players with the right players 6-10 that allow the coaches to maximize the efficacy of players 1-5. Danny has failed there since the Cassell and Brown signings, in my opinion.

I disagree wtih this completely. GMs win titles by assembling the best core 4 or 5 players. After that, the bench depth, luck, and matchups determine who wins out in the end.

[Roy Hobbs]

I hated the 2008 off-season, and thought that it made very little sense.  I thought the "dumpster diving" was a terrible strategy, and Danny got burned for it.

Did he? I agree not getting a suitable backup wing was a bad move.

But if we go by only results matter, avoiding spending money worked out because with KG's knee injury we weren't winning anyways.

Eh...  If nothing else, signing some legit players could have gotten the Celts past Orlando (earning the owners a ton more in playoff revenue), or could have set the team up better for this past off-season.

The 2008 off-season was an abject disaster.  Just because KG got injured doesn't absolve Danny for basically wasting an entire off-season on garbage players.

I don't think one more player would have gotten us past Orlando honestly. It was fluky that we got them to 7 games as it was...

I disagree that it was fluky.  Also, the loss in Game 6 especially could have been avoided with more depth; we were winning in the fourth, before collapsing down the stretch.

Regardless, I just don't think any GM can defending an off-season by saying "it could have been worse" or "well, we were going to lose anyway".

[thirstyboots18]

 Nothing you can do about a superhot superstar,    .

TB this is not a thread that is reacting to one game's results. I have been thinking about this for a while. Fortunately for me, I've been on vacation and haven't had the time to write about this to the extent I wanted to since the regular season ended. Doc, and the players have gotten a lot of grief regarding their performance for this regular season. I just think Danny should bare his brunt of the blame as well.

I believe most of the blame for the regular season not living up to expectations is Injuries.  I also believe (unlike last year) most of the credit for the team coming together in the playoffs goes to Doc's management of minutes, even to the detriment of game results, sometimes.  You are the one who said Wallace is a bust...and he may be, but I think it is too soon to say that.  This team was built for the playoffs...lets see how they can do.

[Fafnir]

In Danny's defense, I liked the Daniels and Wallace signings at the time, as did most basketball pundits and many on this board. They appeared like good signings at the time. But there were signs there that these types of seasons could have happened and were ignored.

As has been hinted at in articles, Daniels and Wallace might not fit in chemistry wise with this team and that Danny CAN and should be held accountable for. They were good fits personality wise or perhaps work ethic wise. Due diligence must be done to assure these traits blend in as well as the skills they bring.

I don't blame Danny's effort in signing these guys. Their performances are on them as players. I don't blame Danny because these guys lacked the intestinal fortitude
to put forth exceptional efforts every game like true professionals. What I do blame Danny for is not seeing that they fit into the chemistry of this team properly.

You don't blame him for the signings but for the chemsitry fit?

Chemistry comes when you win, the C's have struggled that's why all those stories have come out. You get friction when its hard, when you're the best team in the league everyone loves one another.

If what you say is true, Danny is supposed to figure out how Daniels fits and interacts with 7 other players? No GM can do that! Both guys have their warts, but their "attitudes" aren't the problem its their play.

[Fafnir]

I disagree that it was fluky.  Also, the loss in Game 6 especially could have been avoided with more depth; we were winning in the fourth, before collapsing down the stretch.

Regardless, I just don't think any GM can defending an off-season by saying "it could have been worse" or "well, we were going to lose anyway".

Both teams choked away games. For Orlando it was Game 5, for the C's it was Game 6. Overall we got beat up badly in more games than not in that series.

[Roy Hobbs]

I disagree that it was fluky.  Also, the loss in Game 6 especially could have been avoided with more depth; we were winning in the fourth, before collapsing down the stretch.

Regardless, I just don't think any GM can defending an off-season by saying "it could have been worse" or "well, we were going to lose anyway".

Both teams choked away games. For Orlando it was Game 5, for the C's it was Game 6. Overall we got beat up badly in more games than not in that series.

I'd disagree that we "got beat badly in more games than not".  We got beat badly in two games.  We beat Orlando badly in one game.  The other four games were close, and we went 2-2 in those games.

[nickagneta]

First, James Posey wasn't the only other move or possibility of use for that 2008 MLE other than re-signing Eddie House and Patrick O'Bryant(Tony Allen was signed using Bird rights). There were a great other possible players that could have been signed that might have made this team better long term.

Who else was out there?

Remember by the time Posey got the fourth year almost all of the other options had signed.

I'm not going to rehash this as their are 20 page threads in the archives that discussed this. I will state what I wrote when that off season started. My opinion then was to forget Posey from the beginning and concentrate on using the MLE, LLE and other means right away to strike at other players. If I remember right the players I wanted targeted were Roger Mason and Matt Barnes and Kurt Thomas.

[Fafnir]

First, James Posey wasn't the only other move or possibility of use for that 2008 MLE other than re-signing Eddie House and Patrick O'Bryant(Tony Allen was signed using Bird rights). There were a great other possible players that could have been signed that might have made this team better long term.

Who else was out there?

Remember by the time Posey got the fourth year almost all of the other options had signed.

I'm not going to rehash this as their are 20 page threads in the archives that discussed this. I will state what I wrote when that off season started. My opinion then was to forget Posey from the beginning and concentrate on using the MLE, LLE and other means right away to strike at other players. If I remember right the players I wanted targeted were Roger Mason and Matt Barnes and Kurt Thomas.

This entire thread is a giant rehash though....

[Fafnir]

I disagree that it was fluky.  Also, the loss in Game 6 especially could have been avoided with more depth; we were winning in the fourth, before collapsing down the stretch.

Regardless, I just don't think any GM can defending an off-season by saying "it could have been worse" or "well, we were going to lose anyway".

Both teams choked away games. For Orlando it was Game 5, for the C's it was Game 6. Overall we got beat up badly in more games than not in that series.

I'd disagree that we "got beat badly in more games than not".  We got beat badly in two games.  We beat Orlando badly in one game.  The other four games were close, and we went 2-2 in those games.

I suppose when it comes down to it I don't see a backup wing player making a diffence in that series.

Either way without KG we weren't going to be Cleveland and the Lakers without home court against either team.

[nickagneta]

First, James Posey wasn't the only other move or possibility of use for that 2008 MLE other than re-signing Eddie House and Patrick O'Bryant(Tony Allen was signed using Bird rights). There were a great other possible players that could have been signed that might have made this team better long term.

Who else was out there?

Remember by the time Posey got the fourth year almost all of the other options had signed.

I'm not going to rehash this as their are 20 page threads in the archives that discussed this. I will state what I wrote when that off season started. My opinion then was to forget Posey from the beginning and concentrate on using the MLE, LLE and other means right away to strike at other players. If I remember right the players I wanted targeted were Roger Mason and Matt Barnes and Kurt Thomas.

This entire thread is a giant rehash though....

This thread is a rehash of his job as a whole. I won't rehash every single particular off season move with "what could he have done differently" moves. The possibilities are endless and it all comes back to what he DID do. And what he did do didn't work, IMO.

[Fafnir]

First, James Posey wasn't the only other move or possibility of use for that 2008 MLE other than re-signing Eddie House and Patrick O'Bryant(Tony Allen was signed using Bird rights). There were a great other possible players that could have been signed that might have made this team better long term.

Who else was out there?

Remember by the time Posey got the fourth year almost all of the other options had signed.

I'm not going to rehash this as their are 20 page threads in the archives that discussed this. I will state what I wrote when that off season started. My opinion then was to forget Posey from the beginning and concentrate on using the MLE, LLE and other means right away to strike at other players. If I remember right the players I wanted targeted were Roger Mason and Matt Barnes and Kurt Thomas.

This entire thread is a giant rehash though....

This thread is a rehash of his job as a whole. I won't rehash every single particular off season move with "what could he have done differently" moves. The possibilities are endless and it all comes back to what he DID do. And what he did do didn't work, IMO.

But that's the problem I have with your thinking your criteria is: "Did it work"

Only one team can win every year, and factors the GM can't control are stronger than the one's he can. I think Danny had one good offseason and one bad offseason. Neither of them really worked though.

[Roy Hobbs]

I disagree that it was fluky.  Also, the loss in Game 6 especially could have been avoided with more depth; we were winning in the fourth, before collapsing down the stretch.

Regardless, I just don't think any GM can defending an off-season by saying "it could have been worse" or "well, we were going to lose anyway".

Both teams choked away games. For Orlando it was Game 5, for the C's it was Game 6. Overall we got beat up badly in more games than not in that series.

I'd disagree that we "got beat badly in more games than not".  We got beat badly in two games.  We beat Orlando badly in one game.  The other four games were close, and we went 2-2 in those games.

I suppose when it comes down to it I don't see a backup wing player making a diffence in that series.

What if we'd signed Matt Barnes and Chris Andersen, like a lot of fans advocated?  They couldn't have helped us win one additional game? 

Also, of course, if we'd signed Andersen and Barnes, it could have helped us avoid the mistakes this off-season (even if I thought Rasheed + Daniels made sense at the time.)

[Fafnir]

I disagree that it was fluky.  Also, the loss in Game 6 especially could have been avoided with more depth; we were winning in the fourth, before collapsing down the stretch.

Regardless, I just don't think any GM can defending an off-season by saying "it could have been worse" or "well, we were going to lose anyway".

Both teams choked away games. For Orlando it was Game 5, for the C's it was Game 6. Overall we got beat up badly in more games than not in that series.

I'd disagree that we "got beat badly in more games than not".  We got beat badly in two games.  We beat Orlando badly in one game.  The other four games were close, and we went 2-2 in those games.

I suppose when it comes down to it I don't see a backup wing player making a diffence in that series.

What if we'd signed Matt Barnes and Chris Andersen, like a lot of fans advocated?  They couldn't have helped us win one additional game? 

Also, of course, if we'd signed Andersen and Barnes, it could have helped us avoid the mistakes this off-season (even if I thought Rasheed + Daniels made sense at the time.)

Could they have helped us? Sure, I wouldn't count on it.

Like I said originally, I din't like Danny's 2007-2008 offseason (A C isn't good in my mind) in that he avoided a long term mistake (Posey) but didn't do anything to help the bench.

[nickagneta]

If what you say is true, Danny is supposed to figure out how Daniels fits and interacts with 7 other players? No GM can do that! Both guys have their warts, but their "attitudes" aren't the problem its their play.

Yes, GM's do it all the time with free agents and draftees in EVERY sport.

Do you really think that it's any surprise that Nate Robinson isn't fitting into this team? The writing was on the wall that this guy wasn't the right fit mentally or personality wise. Danny ignored that. Do you think Ron Artest would have been a good personality fit here? Or Quentin Richardson? Or someone lazy like Eddie Curry or Patrick O'Bryant?

I think it's pretty clear that Danny judges talent and film but sometimes misses out completely in the extraneous other things that need to be taken into account as to whether a player is a good fit for an organization, that being personality, work ethic, personal makeup, attitude, etc. He has a decent sized list of misses in this regard. Blount, Banks, Telfair, O'Bryant, Marbury, Wallace, Daniels, Robinson, Giddens.

[thirstyboots18]

If we lose in the first round, Nick, I will agree with you that Danny is a failure and will commiserate with you all summer.  I will, however, not take failure for granted and will be watching the rest of the playoffs.  What, in your consideration, would change your opinion to success?  Finals appearance, Championship?  Or would your opinion stay the same regardless of position?