Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?

[FatjohnReturns]

Forget

Moving Garnett to center and bringing in a talented power forward is an interesting line of thought.

That would change the whole dynamic of the team. Add another scoring threat and hopefully improve the team's quickness defensively too.

  Not necessarily a scoring threat, but if you move KG to center, I'd think about Perk for Love. Gives Minny a center to pair with Big Al, and the salaries aren't that far off.

Forget Caldeon. The point is the frontline needs upgrading badly. You cant bring in any more Pollards,Moores,O'Bryants and expect to get any better than we are this year. We have zero cap room this summer. So what do you do if you want to contend in whats left of the Pierce Garnett era? You package Rondo+Baby or Sheed for a Legit Power Forward. All you need at point is a player who defends and doesnt turn the ball over.

If you keep Rondo and try to bandaid the frontline with another free agent pickup we are doomed. Rasheed will be 36? KG knee is toast. This situation will not get better with a what we could get in free agency.

Also there is no way Garnett can be moved to center with his knee. Are you serious? He wont make thru the first half of the year.

[Who]

The point is the frontline needs upgrading badly. You cant bring in any more Pollards,Moores,O'Bryants and expect to get any better than we are this year. We have zero cap room this summer. So what do you do if you want to contend in whats left of the Pierce Garnett era? You package Rondo+Baby or Sheed for a Legit Power Forward.

Also there is no way Garnett can be moved to center with his knee. Are you serious? He wont make thru the first half of the year.

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread ... What would like to do with Garnett?

(1) Dump him in a trade
(2) Keep him as a starter but upgrade the other starting big man spot (since you've said you don't want KG as a center that means finding a better center than Perk)
(3) Make Garnett the sixth man and acquire a new power forward to take over his starting spot

[Who]

2-Get rid of Rasheed any way possible. Rasheed+beloved Celtics= epic fail see any of the many Rasheed threads in the forum.

3- Trade Rondo for a legit power forward.(Bosh,Boozer,Amare in a package with Rasheed or Baby either trade or sign and trade)   Rondo is the team best trade assest unfortunetly his defense is poor and it puts alot of pressure on the back line to cover for him and they simply cannont do it. Its understandable that Rondo cant defend bigger stronger guards like Billups and D Will but if he cant stop guys like Brooks and Collison then who can he defend?

4- Resign Ray. Ray is not the problem its Docs emphasis on playing team ball even when the team is not performing. If Ray got the touches other premier shooting guards get(Kobe,Wade)he would be putting up huge numbers. Look what happened when they went away from Ray in the Easter Day game. The offense should be running thru Ray every game.

5- Resign Perkins. Who plays Dwight Howard better than Perkins?

PG - Steve Blake, Raymond Felton, Chris Duhon, Luke Ridnour, Jordan Farmer, Kyle Lowry
OG - Ray Allen
SF - Paul Pierce
PF - Carlos Boozer or Amare Stoudemire
C - Kendrick Perkins

Sixth Man + Main Backup Big Man - Kevin Garnett
Main Backup Wing - Tony Allen
Main Backup Guard - Nate Robinson

That would make an interesting team.  I didn't think highly of the idea when I first read it but, after writing it out, it does seem interesting.

#1 -- Phoenix and Utah have talented point guards so Rondo doesn't have much value to them. Would have to find a team that was willing to give up an elite four that needed an upgrade at the point. Need a more realistic target than Amare/Booz/Bosh.

#2 -- Would be quite worried about the team defense with Boozer/Amare + Perkins. The help defense would drop off dramatically. If Garnett was still on the bench that would help ease the issue considerably.


So the question would be, which is better for the team?

(1) Rondo + MLE on a reserve player either a backup wing or a new backup big man

(2) Amare or Boozer for Rondo & change + MLE on a new starting point guard

[FatjohnReturns]

The point is the frontline needs upgrading badly. You cant bring in any more Pollards,Moores,O'Bryants and expect to get any better than we are this year. We have zero cap room this summer. So what do you do if you want to contend in whats left of the Pierce Garnett era? You package Rondo+Baby or Sheed for a Legit Power Forward.

Also there is no way Garnett can be moved to center with his knee. Are you serious? He wont make thru the first half of the year.

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread ... What would like to do with Garnett?

(1) Dump him in a trade
(2) Keep him as a starter but upgrade the other starting big man spot (since you've said you don't want KG as a center that means finding a better center than Perk)
(3) Make Garnett the sixth man and acquire a new power forward to take over his starting spot

3) Keep KG as a sixth man.

[Who]

Power Forwards for Rondo Trade

Unavailable -- Bosh, Boozer, Dirk, Gasol, Aldridge, Griffin, J.Smith, Amare

Possibly Available -- Love, A.Randolph, Jamison, Scola, West, Varejao, Thompson, Z.Randolph

Anthony Randolph is the only player that may be available for Rondo that I would consider trading Rondo for. Randolph is still in the early stages of his development and would not give the Celtics one last chance to win a title with this group of players. He may be a more interesting choice to build around long term though ... depending on how confident you are in his potential.

Outside of that choice, Anthony Randolph, I do not see a viable trade option for Rajon Rondo that brings back a talented power forward.

[FatjohnReturns]

2-Get rid of Rasheed any way possible. Rasheed+beloved Celtics= epic fail see any of the many Rasheed threads in the forum.

3- Trade Rondo for a legit power forward.(Bosh,Boozer,Amare in a package with Rasheed or Baby either trade or sign and trade)   Rondo is the team best trade assest unfortunetly his defense is poor and it puts alot of pressure on the back line to cover for him and they simply cannont do it. Its understandable that Rondo cant defend bigger stronger guards like Billups and D Will but if he cant stop guys like Brooks and Collison then who can he defend?

4- Resign Ray. Ray is not the problem its Docs emphasis on playing team ball even when the team is not performing. If Ray got the touches other premier shooting guards get(Kobe,Wade)he would be putting up huge numbers. Look what happened when they went away from Ray in the Easter Day game. The offense should be running thru Ray every game.

5- Resign Perkins. Who plays Dwight Howard better than Perkins?

PG - Steve Blake, Raymond Felton, Chris Duhon, Luke Ridnour, Jordan Farmer, Kyle Lowry
OG - Ray Allen
SF - Paul Pierce
PF - Carlos Boozer or Amare Stoudemire
C - Kendrick Perkins

Sixth Man + Main Backup Big Man - Kevin Garnett
Main Backup Wing - Tony Allen
Main Backup Guard - Nate Robinson

That would make an interesting team.  I didn't think highly of the idea when I first read it but, after writing it out, it does seem interesting.

#1 -- Phoenix and Utah have talented point guards so Rondo doesn't have much value to them. Would have to find a team that was willing to give up an elite four that needed an upgrade at the point. Need a more realistic target than Amare/Booz/Bosh.

#2 -- Would be quite worried about the team defense with Boozer/Amare + Perkins. The help defense would drop off dramatically. If Garnett was still on the bench that would help ease the issue considerably.


So the question would be, which is better for the team?

(1) Rondo + MLE on a reserve player either a backup wing or a new backup big man

(2) Amare or Boozer for Rondo & change + MLE on a new starting point guard

[FatjohnReturns]

Power Forwards for Rondo Trade

Unavailable -- Bosh, Boozer, Dirk, Gasol, Aldridge, Griffin, J.Smith, Amare

Possibly Available -- Love, A.Randolph, Jamison, Scola, West, Varejao, Thompson, Z.Randolph

Anthony Randolph is the only player that may be available for Rondo that I would consider trading Rondo for. Randolph is still in the early stages of his development and would not give the Celtics one last chance to win a title with this group of players. He may be a more interesting choice to build around long term though ... depending on how confident you are in his potential.

Outside of that choice, Anthony Randolph, I do not see a viable trade option for Rajon Rondo that brings back a talented power forward.

Bosh is not gonna resign with Toronto. Could Toronto do a sign and trade with us for Rondo+Baby?

The rest in that list dont have equal value in a trade for Rondo.

Bosh PPG 24.0 RPG 10.80 APG 2.4 EFF + 26.67

Rondo PPG 13.7 RPG 4.40 APG 9.8 EFF + 20.69 ////+Baby or Sheed

[ManUp]

Power Forwards for Rondo Trade

Unavailable -- Bosh, Boozer, Dirk, Gasol, Aldridge, Griffin, J.Smith, Amare

Possibly Available -- Love, A.Randolph, Jamison, Scola, West, Varejao, Thompson, Z.Randolph

Anthony Randolph is the only player that may be available for Rondo that I would consider trading Rondo for. Randolph is still in the early stages of his development and would not give the Celtics one last chance to win a title with this group of players. He may be a more interesting choice to build around long term though ... depending on how confident you are in his potential.

Outside of that choice, Anthony Randolph, I do not see a viable trade option for Rajon Rondo that brings back a talented power forward.

Rondo >>> Love, A.Randolph, Jamison, Scola, West, Varejao, Thompson, Z.Randolph

We'd be idiots to give up Rondo in a package where one of these guys is the best we have coming back. Also I think Bosh is vastly overrated he is too soft to be a top option on any team. I think Al Jefferson is a better player and he'll be making around 8 million less then Bosh by the end of free agency next season.

[RebusRankin]

Moving Garnett to center and bringing in a talented power forward is an interesting line of thought.

That would change the whole dynamic of the team. Add another scoring threat and hopefully improve the team's quickness defensively too.

I thought so too. Who, would you do a Love for Perkins swap?

[Who]

Power Forwards for Rondo Trade

Unavailable -- Bosh, Boozer, Dirk, Gasol, Aldridge, Griffin, J.Smith, Amare

Possibly Available -- Love, A.Randolph, Jamison, Scola, West, Varejao, Thompson, Z.Randolph

Anthony Randolph is the only player that may be available for Rondo that I would consider trading Rondo for. Randolph is still in the early stages of his development and would not give the Celtics one last chance to win a title with this group of players. He may be a more interesting choice to build around long term though ... depending on how confident you are in his potential.

Outside of that choice, Anthony Randolph, I do not see a viable trade option for Rajon Rondo that brings back a talented power forward.

Bosh is not gonna resign with Toronto. Could Toronto do a sign and trade with us for Rondo+Baby?

The rest in that list dont have equal value in a trade for Rondo.

Bosh PPG 24.0 RPG 10.80 APG 2.4 EFF + 26.67

Rondo PPG 13.7 RPG 4.40 APG 9.8 EFF + 20.69 ////+Baby or Sheed

I think the team would be hard pressed to convince Bosh to join the Celtics, especially with Rondo heading the other way, with rebuilding on the horizon.

Even if they could convince Bosh, I don't think Colangelo would be overly interested in Rondo. Bosh would have to drive the negotiations pretty hard (make it clear he is unwilling to go anywhere else, not to Miami, NY or Chicago) to get BC to make that deal.

I don't think Bosh is a realistic target.

Rondo >>> Love, A.Randolph, Jamison, Scola, West, Varejao, Thompson, Z.Randolph

We'd be idiots to give up Rondo in a package where one of these guys is the best we have coming back.

Yea, I agree ... with the exception of Anthony Randolph.

I've very high on his potential and think he can become a top 15 player in this league. Even with that though, I'm not sure I'd give up the certainty of Rondo's talent for the uncertainty of Randolph's potential.

And, now that I think about it, Golden State probably wouldn't be interested in Rondo given that Curry is quickly becoming their franchise point guard.

[Who]

Moving Garnett to center and bringing in a talented power forward is an interesting line of thought.

That would change the whole dynamic of the team. Add another scoring threat and hopefully improve the team's quickness defensively too.

I thought so too. Who, would you do a Love for Perkins swap?

I don't know if I'd make that deal but I'd definitely consider it.

My main concern is defensively. I think the Celtics need to upgrade their big man defense for next season, I think that should be their first priority, and going from Perk to Love is a large downgrade. That said, the gains offensively + on the backboards may add more value to the team than the loss defensively.

I'm undecided but it's a very tempting proposal. Big fan of Love's game.

Edit: (1) I'm undecided if the move is geared towards winning a title next season (2) I'm 100% behind the move if the idea is rebuilding because Love is a much better piece over the long haul.

[nickagneta]

Moving Garnett to center and bringing in a talented power forward is an interesting line of thought.

That would change the whole dynamic of the team. Add another scoring threat and hopefully improve the team's quickness defensively too.

I thought so too. Who, would you do a Love for Perkins swap?

I don't know if I'd make that deal but I'd definitely consider it.

My main concern is defensively. I think the Celtics need to upgrade their big man defense for next season, I think that should be their first priority, and going from Perk to Love is a large downgrade. That said, the gains offensively + on the backboards may add more value to the team than the loss defensively.

I'm undecided but it's a very tempting proposal. Big fan of Love's game.

I thought I read something around the trade deadline out of Minneapolis that of Jefferson and Love the player the Wolves want to keep is Love. That while not being untouchable, Love is pretty much off limits while Kahn would definitely take offers on Big Al this summer.

[BballTim]

Forget

Moving Garnett to center and bringing in a talented power forward is an interesting line of thought.

That would change the whole dynamic of the team. Add another scoring threat and hopefully improve the team's quickness defensively too.

  Not necessarily a scoring threat, but if you move KG to center, I'd think about Perk for Love. Gives Minny a center to pair with Big Al, and the salaries aren't that far off.

Forget Caldeon. The point is the frontline needs upgrading badly. You cant bring in any more Pollards,Moores,O'Bryants and expect to get any better than we are this year. We have zero cap room this summer. So what do you do if you want to contend in whats left of the Pierce Garnett era? You package Rondo+Baby or Sheed for a Legit Power Forward. All you need at point is a player who defends and doesnt turn the ball over.

If you keep Rondo and try to bandaid the frontline with another free agent pickup we are doomed. Rasheed will be 36? KG knee is toast. This situation will not get better with a what we could get in free agency.

Also there is no way Garnett can be moved to center with his knee. Are you serious? He wont make thru the first half of the year.

  If you trade Rondo for a frontcourt player and try and win without a decent backcourt you're equally doomed, worse because you've traded your best young player. In fact, next year he'll probably be our best player period. He was for much of this year.

[More Banners]

I think a major retooling this offseason is likely.  Danny isn't going to make a deal that puts us in a bind, financially, after 2012.  My assessment of the roster is similar to most of what's already posted, so here's the highlights:

Rondo:  almost impossible to get decent value, and there's no real reason to let him go unless he sleeps with Wyc's wife.  I also don't think he has the go-to offensive scoring ability to really build around him, but he isn't going anywhere this summer, 99% likely he stays.

Perk:  He's a role player.  As noted, he defends Howard, but gets killed by Bogut.  He's probably our best chip.  Detroit and Utah would like to have him very much, I think.

Ray:  he's productive and could be a good value.  He holds the cards, though, as a FA.

Frontline:  all 4 under contract next year, but needs to be upgraded.  KG untradable, and we would have to give up an asset to dump Sheed, so we probably end up riding out or buying out his deal.  That leaves Perk and BBD on the block.

Our FA's:  Nate and Quisy are not working out, and Scal and Finley will move on (coaching?).  Shelden is worth keeping as a 4th big for cheap.  TA is worth keeping at his current annual salary, too.

Scenarios:

Minny has been mentioned for our bigs.  The triangle requires versatile bigs, and is best with only one pivot player.  Perk can't play next to Big Al, then, and really isn't as well suited to their offense as Darko is.  I bet they try to keep Darko/Love and trade Big Al this summer, but won't be looking for what we've got.

Detroit is a possibility for Perk.  What would they give up?  Ben Gordon for Perk and change?

Utah looks like a strong possibility.  Perk would be an upgrade to Okur, and would provide defense next to Millsap's offense.  Perk with a S&T for Ray might bring Boozer.

Miami, which competes w/D.Howard for a division seat, might trade Beasley and a pick for Perk.  Actually, anyone in that division should be asking about him:  Charlotte, Atlanta...

Oh...Atlanta owns Josh Childress' rights still...and has an undersized Center in Horford...could be looking for a SG if the underappreciated Joe Johnson leaves...  PERK, RAY, AND PICKS FOR JOE JOHNSON (heck, I'd throw in Wyc's wife...not my problem...)!

I'd say just about the whole roster will be discussed this summer...unless this frustrating regular season is merely and odd prelude to the Run for 18.  And if there is a deal to be done, Danny will find it.  He's a greazy SOB that way.

[jdpapa3]

  If you trade Rondo for a frontcourt player and try and win without a decent backcourt you're equally doomed, worse because you've traded your best young player. In fact, next year he'll probably be our best player period. He was for much of this year.

Point guard is not an essential position to win a title. Teams always need a strong frontcourt to do it. I'd have to get knocked over in a Rondo deal, though.