Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?

[nickagneta]

This thread is regarding something that BBallTim said in another thread about breaking up the team. He said that some people act like losing to the Cavs in the second round seems like such a bad outcome for the year that they advocate breaking up the team. He disagrees and I concur. Cleveland is the best team in the league, IMO, and there's no shame in losing to them whether it be the 2nd round or the ECFs.

That said, could the team be broken up if something else occurred? The only way I see huge major changes coming to this team this off season is a first round exit in bad fashion, ala the 1983 Milwaukee sweep of Boston. Would Danny Ainge after watching this team flounder through the last 4 months of the season and get knocked around in the first round decide that the chemistry of the club is all wrong and that big changes needed to be made? I don't know, he could.

Question is, if that happened who would go and who would stay. I think there are some definite locker room problems on this team that we have only heard whispers about. I think there may be a definite old guy/young guy divide on this team with the Big Three and Rasheed in one corner and Rondo, Perk, Baby and Tony Allen in the other. I think there may be some hard feelings that exist between certain members of each group and I think Danny will immediately address it if he decides it is what took this team down this year.

What gives me these feelings? Just some of the comments that have come out from Rondo and Perk and KG and Pierce during the year and some of the stuff I have heard on sports talk radio from Jackie MacMullen and Michael Holly, people I consider viable and knowledgeable of what might be happening in that locker room.

But if Danny would decide to break up the team, then who stays and who goes? Rondo and Perk seem like the most likely trading assets to return quality players but who are you going to get given Perk's small salary and Rondo being a BYC player. It would make it difficult to trade them and get anything back of quality that would be able to be added to the older guys because the amount of salary being traded is so small.

On the other hand, trading the older guys is going to be near impossible. KG is lame and his contract is huge. There's no guarantee he ever looks like he did  before the knee injury ever again. Rasheed has two years remaining on his contract, is owed over $13 million and is just really not a very good big man any more. Pierce is beat up and has lost some explosion and the respect of the refs regarding contact fouls, but he would be an expiring contract if he doesn't opt out and still has some value. Ray Allen in a sign and trade could also be possible.

So, if you love the make up and ability and talent of this team and think they have anything left in them after this year and want them to stay together, hope for a switch to flip and a coast through the first round. Otherwise, by month's end, we could be seeing the last of this group together.

[Slugger]

A loss in any round wouldnt change a thing.

The team will not be broken up.
 
KG is staying put. 
PP will not opt out of his last contracted year - nor will he be traded.
Perk and Rondo will be here - especially at their value.

The only one gone could be Ray, but even that is highly unlikely considering the bond that he has developed with Boston and teammates.

Should it be broken up?  I feel that these playoffs should determine whether they should.  But i dont feel Danny will.

[BballTim]

  I'd disagree with some of your comments about Pierce. He's having his most efficient scoring year and he's getting more fouls called per fga than he does in most years.

  I think that if they could figure out a way to upgrade Ray's spot they'd take a chance on next year, hoping/expecting that KG's knee will be better than it has been this year.

[Witch-King]

A loss in any round wouldnt change a thing.

The team will not be broken up.
  
KG is staying put.  
PP will not opt out of his last contracted year - nor will he be traded.
Perk and Rondo will be here - especially at their value.

The only one gone could be Ray, but even that is highly unlikely considering the bond that he has developed with Boston and teammates.

Should it be broken up?  I feel that these playoffs should determine whether they should.  But i dont feel Danny will.

I don't see why KG would leave, seeing as he started his career playing for the Minnesota Timberwolves, basically the ghost of the former Minnesota Lakers who moved to LA and are now currently known as the LA Lakers. During his early years he basically re-built that franchise from scratch to the point where they even led the Western Conference in wins during the 2003-04 season, all the while Phil Jackson and the 'Lost and Jealous' Lakers 3-peated with Shaq and young Kobe. The Lakers won 5 championships in the city of Minnesota before they left, and sadly the city may never re-cultivate that level of a winning culture/franchise during today's game so Kevin's contributions are that much more missed by Minnesotans.

Paul has been here forever, Ray has stated that he wants to stay so I can only see the Celtics trying to get better role players on their bench seeing as the 'Big 3' were definitely a winning formula in the 2008 season. They could try something drastic like trading either Rondo or Perk but I doubt they'd get equal value in return unless we were lobbying for like Chauncey Billups or Dwight Howard. If we acquired a strong bench guard like a Manu Ginobili-type of player (Spurs just re-signed him) we could cover alot of ground and take pressure off of the Big 3 to carry the offensive load. A few players already come to my mind (Raja Bell, Allen Iverson, Darren Collison, etc.). I don't think this team needs to make such drastic changes to have a shot at winning the title every year.

[RAcker]

A loss in any round wouldnt change a thing.

The team will not be broken up.
 
KG is staying put. 
PP will not opt out of his last contracted year - nor will he be traded.
Perk and Rondo will be here - especially at their value.

The only one gone could be Ray, but even that is highly unlikely considering the bond that he has developed with Boston and teammates.

Should it be broken up?  I feel that these playoffs should determine whether they should.  But i dont feel Danny will.

We need to remember that it was Danny that made it very well known to Red that he thought the C's held on too tight to the original Big 3.  I think if it were Danny's call, he would have packaged Parish or McHale for younger talent or picks in a heartbeat once 1988 had passed us by.

[Chris]

I think Danny will consider "breaking up" the nucleus of the team, even if they don't get bounced early.  I think Danny has been looking at options to reload for at least the last year.  The thing is, the right option needs to be there.

Danny is not the type of GM who will decide "OK, we need to make a big move now", and then pull the trigger on anything.  He is generally very patient, and waits for the "right" deal.  It worked out with the KG/Allen deals, but it is also very risky as well.

I think Danny is absolutely fine with waiting this out, seeing what comes of the new CBA, and then starting over with cap space in 2012, but I also think he always has his ears open for good deals.

If someone approached him this summer, and offered an expiring contract, and some nice young building blocks for Garnett, I am sure he would jump at it.  Just like he would have jumped at the right deal for Ray at the deadline.  

But I see no way that they will have a fire-sale, where they just collect expiring contracts, or overpaid guys, just to "blow it up".  It's just not Danny's style.

I do expect him to look to shake things up a bit though, and try to turn some of the guys into some more valuable assets to build around (Perk and Davis are probably going to be shopped pretty hard this summer).

[droopdog7]

  I'd disagree with some of your comments about Pierce. He's having his most efficient scoring year and he's getting more fouls called per fga than he does in most years.

  I think that if they could figure out a way to upgrade Ray's spot they'd take a chance on next year, hoping/expecting that KG's knee will be better than it has been this year.

Don't really see a way we can upgrade Ray's spot.  And second, KG isn't getting better.  For KG, it is all downhill from here.

I don't think the team will be broken up but not because it isn't the right thing to do.  The problem will be getting value for the guys.  As we have seen, just isn't an easy thing to do.

[Mr October]

Can the C's be broken up if they completely self destruct in the playoffs?

Yes.

You can probably sign and trade Ray to just about any contender / wanna be contender of his choosing. Perhaps you can get a prospect back, or an expiring contract and a mid-late 1st round pick.

KG's monster contract is only going to bring back equally terrible contracts, and a late 1st round pick. As a starting forward KG is still good and probably worth 10 million per year for 2 years (not 20 per).

Pierce is in a similar situation as KG, but not quite as bad. Pierce is still currently the 5th best small forward in the NBA... but for how long?

Rondo should only be moved if you can get a superstar in return (or a legit annual all nba big man) - that's probably not going to happen.

Perkins trade value is going to keep dropping the closer we get to the end of his very low deal. I'd move him only if it greases the wheels on getting a young star on this team - again probably not going to happen. I'd then try to resign him at $40/5 years.

Sheed can probably be traded for an equally bad contract straight up.

So in the end this team could be exploded in return for some crappy 1-2 year contracts and a handful of late first rounders. Or... you ride this group out for the next year or 2, and ownership can keep marketing them and making money from them, and perhaps just buy a late first round pick in each of the next couple drafts. (All the while being prepared for just the right deal to come along - just in case someone is willing to give the C's a nice package because they are desperate for that "last piece")

[incoherent]

If they are bounced from the first round then the hope would be that would certainly be broken up...

Cause it will only be worse next year.


Too bad we traded Bill Walker so Nate can sit on the bench...

[Chris]

  I'd disagree with some of your comments about Pierce. He's having his most efficient scoring year and he's getting more fouls called per fga than he does in most years.

  I think that if they could figure out a way to upgrade Ray's spot they'd take a chance on next year, hoping/expecting that KG's knee will be better than it has been this year.

Don't really see a way we can upgrade Ray's spot.  And second, KG isn't getting better.  For KG, it is all downhill from here.

I don't think the team will be broken up but not because it isn't the right thing to do.  The problem will be getting value for the guys.  As we have seen, just isn't an easy thing to do.

I agree, they probably can't upgrade Ray, since I think he is still pretty close to a top 5 SG in the league.  However, if they can get younger and cheaper in that spot, and get an asset or two from a sign and trade of Ray, then it would certainly make sense.

[Brendan]

I think Danny knows long term his focus is on number 18. How to get there is the question. Will he trade Pierce? I doubt it. But anything else is possible. An easier shake up would be at the head coaching spot. Alternatively it might be for Tom T to move on, not sure the team is capable of playing his kind of D anymore.

With the uncertainty of the new CBA - in some ways it makes sense to stay with the current approach, small deals to fill holes.

At this point I'd like to see some kind of mixup in tactics: can KG or PP move to the bench as a super sub and play at a higher level in shorter minutes? Could they employ a pressing unit?

[the_Bird]

If this team doesn't turn it on in the playoffs - if they keep looking more like those underperforming Pistons teams of 'Sheed, Rip, and Chauncey, there will be changes.

I don't think they'll trade KG, but that's mostly because he's pretty much an albatros right now.  

Ray will be allowed to walk.

Pierce; I'm fully expecting PP to approach Danny for an extension this offseason, and if the team keeps sucking ass he may well get rebuffed.  "Prove your leadership next year and we'll talk."  Unless things get a lot better, they aren't committing new salary beyond the summer of 2012 for ANYONE, including the face of the franchise.

Rondo's not going anywhere.  Perk, maybe.  Perk's going to want an extention, and I've become less and less enamored of him as the year's gone along.  The team's rebounding simply sucks, and you can't blow off Perk's fairly pedestrian rebounding.  It just seems like he SHOULD be more dominant on the glass.

'Sheed...  they might have to do a Perk + 'Sheed package to get rid of 'Sheed, but that might be enough to get a decent player in return.  Sign Camby for two years to fill in at the 5 spot.

EDIT:  I should say, too, it's not 100% about whether they lose in the first round or the second.  If they struggle to get by the Raptors, then roll over against Cleveland and lose in four or five games, the team's going to be broken up.  DA's all about the Championships, and it keeps looking more and more like it's the foundation of the team that's the problem.  You aren't keeping the core together, adding one free agent, and starting plans for the victory parade.

EDIT II: I find that I'm assuming this team rolls over in the playoffs.  Sad that I've got zero confidence in this group being ABLE to turn things on  

[BballTim]

  I'd disagree with some of your comments about Pierce. He's having his most efficient scoring year and he's getting more fouls called per fga than he does in most years.

  I think that if they could figure out a way to upgrade Ray's spot they'd take a chance on next year, hoping/expecting that KG's knee will be better than it has been this year.

Don't really see a way we can upgrade Ray's spot.  And second, KG isn't getting better.  For KG, it is all downhill from here.

I don't think the team will be broken up but not because it isn't the right thing to do.  The problem will be getting value for the guys.  As we have seen, just isn't an easy thing to do.

  Perhaps I spoke poorly. I think signing the best available (MLE) wing and splitting the time between that new wing and Paul and Ray (while reducing Ray and possibly Paul's minutes) is upgrading the spot. And people here were saying that KG wasn't going to get any better in January and February. proclaiming something to be true doesn't make it true.

[Jeff]

I think Danny will consider "breaking up" the nucleus of the team, even if they don't get bounced early.  I think Danny has been looking at options to reload for at least the last year.  The thing is, the right option needs to be there.

Danny is not the type of GM who will decide "OK, we need to make a big move now", and then pull the trigger on anything.  He is generally very patient, and waits for the "right" deal.  It worked out with the KG/Allen deals, but it is also very risky as well.

I think Danny is absolutely fine with waiting this out, seeing what comes of the new CBA, and then starting over with cap space in 2012, but I also think he always has his ears open for good deals.

If someone approached him this summer, and offered an expiring contract, and some nice young building blocks for Garnett, I am sure he would jump at it.  Just like he would have jumped at the right deal for Ray at the deadline.  

But I see no way that they will have a fire-sale, where they just collect expiring contracts, or overpaid guys, just to "blow it up".  It's just not Danny's style.

I do expect him to look to shake things up a bit though, and try to turn some of the guys into some more valuable assets to build around (Perk and Davis are probably going to be shopped pretty hard this summer).

co-sign

also, Ray will be shopped via S&T (though the market will be small and the return will likely be bad contracts)

Sheed should be offered to anyone and everyone - how will he respond to those rumors when he comes back next year because we couldn't get rid of him? yikes

Rondo stays, Pierce re-ups

KG could be moved but only in a panic move, so I think Danny will hang on

[Mr October]

If this team doesn't turn it on in the playoffs - if they keep looking more like those underperforming Pistons teams of 'Sheed, Rip, and Chauncey, there will be changes.

I don't think they'll trade KG, but that's mostly because he's pretty much an albatros right now. 

Ray will be allowed to walk.

Pierce; I'm fully expecting PP to approach Danny for an extension this offseason, and if the team keeps sucking ass he may well get rebuffed.  "Prove your leadership next year and we'll talk."  Unless things get a lot better, they aren't committing new salary beyond the summer of 2012 for ANYONE, including the face of the franchise.

Rondo's not going anywhere.  Perk, maybe.  Perk's going to want an extention, and I've become less and less enamored of him as the year's gone along.  The team's rebounding simply sucks, and you can't blow off Perk's fairly pedestrian rebounding.  It just seems like he SHOULD be more dominant on the glass.

'Sheed...  they might have to do a Perk + 'Sheed package to get rid of 'Sheed, but that might be enough to get a decent player in return.  Sign Camby for two years to fill in at the 5 spot. 

2012 is possibly the first year the Celtics can be players in the free agent market ever. I agree that you do not want to mess that up, certainly not for a contract extension for ANY player in his mid 30's on the downside of his career.

I think it is in Pierce's best interest to not opt out - 21 million dollars is a lot of money. In 2011, the Celtics can decide how they want to handle Pierce.

Perhaps the best plan is to take Ray and Pierce 1 year at a time (that way the Celtics and the players have freedom every summer, and the players have veto power in trades.) Then in 2012, all focus is on getting players that can run and gun with the Rajon Rondo show.