Despite the blown leads....

[nickagneta]

It's easy to bring the heat when it isn't needed and go up big on teams. It's champions that bring the heat when it most matters and have that heat decide games.

Question: if LeBron had driven to the hole and tied the game with 3 seconds left instead of trying to win the game on a questionable three point attempt and the Cavs won in overtime would this thread even be here?

LeBron's "Tony Allen" brain freeze decision to stop playing smart, intelligent basketball at that point lost the Cavs the game. The C's were lucky to come away with that win after yet another epic collapse.

Did anyone else see that stat during the game yesterday of teams that had blown leads of 10+ points and gone on to lose the game? The C's were tied for second with 13 along with all the other non-playoff teams that were at the top of that list.

I take no solace that they can get up by 10+ points over teams, as apparently, Golden State, Memphis and a couple of other non-playoff teams can do it too. I have a major problem with this teams inability to act like a champion and close out games.

[Fan from VT]

TP nick.

Average teams get up by a lot then let the game be decided essentially by a 50/50 coin flip at the end.

Great teams don't let other teams close the gap.

Any team can get up by a large margin at some point.

And any team can win if the game comes down to the buzzer.

Only great teams can consistently win in comfort.

[BballTim]

Question: if LeBron had driven to the hole and tied the game with 3 seconds left instead of trying to win the game on a questionable three point attempt and the Cavs won in overtime would this thread even be here?

LeBron's "Tony Allen" brain freeze decision to stop playing smart, intelligent basketball at that point lost the Cavs the game. The C's were lucky to come away with that win after yet another epic collapse.

  Did anyone think that LeBron was going to pass up the three in that situation? It's not a brain freeze, it's how he plays. And the only reason they had a chance at that point was that nonsensical goaltending call.

[FallGuy]

TP nick.

Average teams get up by a lot then let the game be decided essentially by a 50/50 coin flip at the end.

Great teams don't let other teams close the gap.

Any team can get up by a large margin at some point.

And any team can win if the game comes down to the buzzer.

Only great teams can consistently win in comfort.

There's no evidence "clutch" exists. Run the numbers on someone like Kobe, allegedly the great fourth quarter clutch player of our generation. He comes up decidedly average.

This is why margin of victory is one of the best predictors of success. The 07-08 Celtics mauled teams all season. And won the title. This year's team squeaks out wins against everyone. Not championship calibre, unfortunately.

[FallGuy]

Question: if LeBron had driven to the hole and tied the game with 3 seconds left instead of trying to win the game on a questionable three point attempt and the Cavs won in overtime would this thread even be here?

LeBron's "Tony Allen" brain freeze decision to stop playing smart, intelligent basketball at that point lost the Cavs the game. The C's were lucky to come away with that win after yet another epic collapse.

  Did anyone think that LeBron was going to pass up the three in that situation? It's not a brain freeze, it's how he plays. And the only reason they had a chance at that point was that nonsensical goaltending call.

I thought he'd take it to the hole.

[incoherent]

I take no solace that they can get up by 10+ points over teams, as apparently, Golden State, Memphis and a couple of other non-playoff teams can do it too. I have a major problem with this teams inability to act like a champion and close out games.

Hey Nick.. yes, this season has been pretty self destructive it seems with all the blown leads, but, yesteday we didn't blow it. 

Yeah, they came back, but we didn't add to that stat your talking about.  Even though it was close.  We actually did close it out (like Champions) against the toughest of opponents.  It has to be a good thing, right?  Even if it's just 1 step in the right direction.

[Chris]

There's no evidence "clutch" exists. Run the numbers on someone like Kobe, allegedly the great fourth quarter clutch player of our generation. He comes up decidedly average.

I don't know about "clutch", but there are certainly differences in how different players and teams execute down the stretch of games, as well as who have the skillsets to put a game away.  

Right now, this team has a problem down the stretch.  They do not seem to have the mindset to put the game away, and just as importantly, I am not sure they have the skillset to do it anymore either.  Pierce no longer seems to have the physical ability to put the team on his shoulders late in games, Ray really is best if someone else is setting him up, KG does not have the game to make his own shot down the stretch, and Rondo's inability to knock down the perimeter shot makes him way too easy to defend at the end of games.

[nickagneta]

I take no solace that they can get up by 10+ points over teams, as apparently, Golden State, Memphis and a couple of other non-playoff teams can do it too. I have a major problem with this teams inability to act like a champion and close out games.

Hey Nick.. yes, this season has been pretty self destructive it seems with all the blown leads, but, yesteday we didn't blow it. 

Yeah, they came back, but we didn't add to that stat your talking about.  Even though it was close.  We actually did close it out (like Champions) against the toughest of opponents.  It has to be a good thing, right?  Even if it's just 1 step in the right direction.

TP, yes definitely a step in the right direction but even a blind squirrel can find a nut every once in a while.

My point to the OP is not that yesterday, in many ways, wasn't encouraging, it was, it's that the encouraging part isn't being able to go up by big numbers in the first three quarters over anybody. The encouraging part is they were able to overcome obvious continued fourth quarter shortcomings and win because when it is all said and done, it is the fourth quarter that will decide the bulk of playoff games, not the first three.

[nickagneta]

Question: if LeBron had driven to the hole and tied the game with 3 seconds left instead of trying to win the game on a questionable three point attempt and the Cavs won in overtime would this thread even be here?

LeBron's "Tony Allen" brain freeze decision to stop playing smart, intelligent basketball at that point lost the Cavs the game. The C's were lucky to come away with that win after yet another epic collapse.

  Did anyone think that LeBron was going to pass up the three in that situation? It's not a brain freeze, it's how he plays. And the only reason they had a chance at that point was that nonsensical goaltending call.

I thought he'd take it to the hole.

I thought that the intelligent play.

Fast break opportunity, the C's on their heals, LeBron had been awful from outside in the game and phenomenal taking it to the basket, the refs were giving him all sorts of leeway after calling a technical on him, they were only down by two and had all the momentum.

Smart basketball dictates you go rim. I thought that a stupid play and no amount of counter debate is going to convince me otherwise.

[Who]

Last night's Cleveland Cavaliers team was not the best team in the league. Not without Varejao. They aren't even a legitimate contender without Varejao.

It was the equivalent of beating the Phoenix Suns.

[Chris]

Question: if LeBron had driven to the hole and tied the game with 3 seconds left instead of trying to win the game on a questionable three point attempt and the Cavs won in overtime would this thread even be here?

LeBron's "Tony Allen" brain freeze decision to stop playing smart, intelligent basketball at that point lost the Cavs the game. The C's were lucky to come away with that win after yet another epic collapse.

  Did anyone think that LeBron was going to pass up the three in that situation? It's not a brain freeze, it's how he plays. And the only reason they had a chance at that point was that nonsensical goaltending call.

I thought he'd take it to the hole.

I thought that the intelligent play.

Fast break opportunity, the C's on their heals, LeBron had been awful from outside in the game and phenomenal taking it to the basket, the refs were giving him all sorts of leeway after calling a technical on him, they were only down by two and had all the momentum.

Smart basketball dictates you go rim. I thought that a stupid play and no amount of counter debate is going to convince me otherwise.

Not to mention, Tony Allen (I am pretty sure thats who it was) was backpeddling, getting ready to foul him, making the 3-point play opportunity innevitable if he took it to the rim.

I thought taking that 3 was one of the most boneheaded, non-Tony Allen plays I have ever seen.

[Chris]

Last night's Cleveland Cavaliers team was not the best team in the league. Not without Varejao. They aren't even a legitimate contender without Varejao.

It was the equivalent of beating the Phoenix Suns.

Agreed (maybe not with the Suns comparison, but with the overall sentiment).  Varajao is far and away their second most important player, and he has absolutely destroyed the C's this season.  Without him out there, they are a completely different team.

[FallGuy]

There's no evidence "clutch" exists. Run the numbers on someone like Kobe, allegedly the great fourth quarter clutch player of our generation. He comes up decidedly average.

I don't know about "clutch", but there are certainly differences in how different players and teams execute down the stretch of games, as well as who have the skillsets to put a game away.  

Right now, this team has a problem down the stretch.  They do not seem to have the mindset to put the game away, and just as importantly, I am not sure they have the skillset to do it anymore either.  Pierce no longer seems to have the physical ability to put the team on his shoulders late in games, Ray really is best if someone else is setting him up, KG does not have the game to make his own shot down the stretch, and Rondo's inability to knock down the perimeter shot makes him way too easy to defend at the end of games.

I agree with your second paragraph although I think it's more physical than mental (although that plays a part). These guys (the big three) just aren't good enough anymore.

[Chris]

There's no evidence "clutch" exists. Run the numbers on someone like Kobe, allegedly the great fourth quarter clutch player of our generation. He comes up decidedly average.

I don't know about "clutch", but there are certainly differences in how different players and teams execute down the stretch of games, as well as who have the skillsets to put a game away.  

Right now, this team has a problem down the stretch.  They do not seem to have the mindset to put the game away, and just as importantly, I am not sure they have the skillset to do it anymore either.  Pierce no longer seems to have the physical ability to put the team on his shoulders late in games, Ray really is best if someone else is setting him up, KG does not have the game to make his own shot down the stretch, and Rondo's inability to knock down the perimeter shot makes him way too easy to defend at the end of games.

I agree with your second paragraph although I think it's more physical than mental (although that plays a part). These guys (the big three) just aren't good enough anymore.

Agreed.  Although I think the team in general has enough talent to still be able to put other teams away.  They just can't do it the way they did in 2008...and they need to accept that.

[Fan from VT]

TP nick.

Average teams get up by a lot then let the game be decided essentially by a 50/50 coin flip at the end.

Great teams don't let other teams close the gap.

Any team can get up by a large margin at some point.

And any team can win if the game comes down to the buzzer.

Only great teams can consistently win in comfort.

There's no evidence "clutch" exists. Run the numbers on someone like Kobe, allegedly the great fourth quarter clutch player of our generation. He comes up decidedly average.

This is why margin of victory is one of the best predictors of success. The 07-08 Celtics mauled teams all season. And won the title. This year's team squeaks out wins against everyone. Not championship calibre, unfortunately.

I agree, that's what i was trying to say. Look at what i said: it's the average teams that lets the game come down to the wire. It's the great teams that get up by double digits AND WIN BY DOUBLE DIGITS.

If there were a team that was always within 1 point (up or down) with one minute to go, they'd probably finish 41-41 on the season. And if they were "clutch" and finished 46-36, they'd be just as likely to finish 36-46 the next season (if they kept the same players) as duplicate the success.


So that's what I said:
-If the game comes down to the wire, anyone can beat anyone...doesn't have anything to do with "clutch."

-Any team can get up by double digits on any other team in any given game. The GREAT teams do it frequently...and WIN by those amounts.