Doc Rivers is a Coward

[connerhenry43]

I am probably a little late to post this since the incident happened a few days ago, but this to me was so upsetting.

"You don’t get a tech in that situation," said a clearly annoyed Rivers, who immediately yanked Davis with Boston up 72-54 with 1:15 remaining in the third frame. "When you’re up 18 points, again, your team is struggling. You’re not [Kevin] Garnett or one of those guys. You don’t get the liberty to talk anyway to the officials. I don’t know, clearly, he earned it, I guess. But you just don’t get it. And he wasn’t playing well anyway, at that point. But I thought he was playing like the score and I just told him, he’s not at that point yet in his life where he can turn it on or off. And we need him to be an every-possession player. And I didn’t think he was that tonight."

Why does Doc say this kind of stuff? Is it because he is so concerned with being liked by the media? If so, that is pathetic. Rasheed Wallace has stolen 5 million dollars from the Celtics this year, mails it in every night, gets technicals like I get free refills at McDonalds. I have been so happy with Glen Davis lately. I know some on here do not like him, but he is playing w/ a chip on his shoulder and he is working his tail off. He is one of the few, if not only, offensive rebounding threats on the team.

Not only that, if there is a time to get a tech, i would think up 18 is not a bad time to get one. Sheed would do it with a minute to go in a game 7 if the mood hit him.


so to recap, if you are young, techs are bad. if you are a veteran, and you lead the league in techs every year, you are OK, and we will camp on your doorstep the day free agency starts and do all we can to get you to sign with us.

[shookones99]

I am probably a little late to post this since the incident happened a few days ago, but this to me was so upsetting.

"You don’t get a tech in that situation," said a clearly annoyed Rivers, who immediately yanked Davis with Boston up 72-54 with 1:15 remaining in the third frame. "When you’re up 18 points, again, your team is struggling. You’re not [Kevin] Garnett or one of those guys. You don’t get the liberty to talk anyway to the officials. I don’t know, clearly, he earned it, I guess. But you just don’t get it. And he wasn’t playing well anyway, at that point. But I thought he was playing like the score and I just told him, he’s not at that point yet in his life where he can turn it on or off. And we need him to be an every-possession player. And I didn’t think he was that tonight."

Why does Doc say this kind of stuff? Is it because he is so concerned with being liked by the media? If so, that is pathetic. Rasheed Wallace has stolen 5 million dollars from the Celtics this year, mails it in every night, gets technicals like I get free refills at McDonalds. I have been so happy with Glen Davis lately. I know some on here do not like him, but he is playing w/ a chip on his shoulder and he is working his tail off. He is one of the few, if not only, offensive rebounding threats on the team.

Not only that, if there is a time to get a tech, i would think up 18 is not a bad time to get one. Sheed would do it with a minute to go in a game 7 if the mood hit him.


so to recap, if you are young, techs are bad. if you are a veteran, and you lead the league in techs every year, you are OK, and we will camp on your doorstep the day free agency starts and do all we can to get you to sign with us.

Did you see that play he was referring to?  It was pretty ridiculous.  It was clear baby was frustrated and so he took a player out (can't remember who it was exactly). 

If Rasheed had made that play (which he doesn't make stupid plays like that) I honestly believe he would have gotten the same reaction from Doc.  Sheed gets techs for arguing bad calls.  Not for getting frustrated and laying a dude out. 

[jdpapa3]

I just get the feeling that what we've seen/heard is only 15% of why the organization is annoyed with Glen Davis. I have little to back this claim up so obviously don't put any thought into it. I agree with how mad Doc got on that play because it was honestly embarrassing to watch as a Celtics fan.

[Roy Hobbs]

The things I don't like in that quote are:

You’re not [Kevin] Garnett or one of those guys.

. . . I just told him, he’s not at that point yet in his life where he can turn it on or off. And we need him to be an every-possession player.

Maybe it's how the NBA works, but I don't like this "veterans can take plays off" / "it's okay when KG picks up a tech" mindset.  If somebody makes a stupid play, come down on them, no matter who it is.

One of Doc's faults, in my opinion, is that he defers way too much to his veterans.  That can work great when the team is self-motivated (see, e.g., 2008 team).  However, when a team is struggling or is being outright lazy, I don't think it's right to give the vets a free pass, simply because they've earned it.

I mean, everyone always talks about vets "leading by example".  Well, if the example they're setting is a poor one, and the coach is endorsing that, can you really blame the young guys for getting the wrong idea?

That in no way excuses BBD for being an idiot, but come on, Doc needs to hold *all* of his players to a high standard.

[RAcker]

The things I don't like in that quote are:

You’re not [Kevin] Garnett or one of those guys.

. . . I just told him, he’s not at that point yet in his life where he can turn it on or off. And we need him to be an every-possession player.

Maybe it's how the NBA works, but I don't like this "veterans can take plays off" / "it's okay when KG picks up a tech" mindset.  If somebody makes a stupid play, come down on them, no matter who it is.

One of Doc's faults, in my opinion, is that he defers way too much to his veterans.  That can work great when the team is self-motivated (see, e.g., 2008 team).  However, when a team is struggling or is being outright lazy, I don't think it's right to give the vets a free pass, simply because they've earned it.

I mean, everyone always talks about vets "leading by example".  Well, if the example they're setting is a poor one, and the coach is endorsing that, can you really blame the young guys for getting the wrong idea?

That in no way excuses BBD for being an idiot, but come on, Doc needs to hold *all* of his players to a high standard.

Wow, totally agree with this.  I think this preferential treatment/speak by Doc is a big problem and has possibly held the likes of Rondo, BBD, et al back.

[shookones99]

The things I don't like in that quote are:

You’re not [Kevin] Garnett or one of those guys.

. . . I just told him, he’s not at that point yet in his life where he can turn it on or off. And we need him to be an every-possession player.

Maybe it's how the NBA works, but I don't like this "veterans can take plays off" / "it's okay when KG picks up a tech" mindset.  If somebody makes a stupid play, come down on them, no matter who it is.

One of Doc's faults, in my opinion, is that he defers way too much to his veterans.  That can work great when the team is self-motivated (see, e.g., 2008 team).  However, when a team is struggling or is being outright lazy, I don't think it's right to give the vets a free pass, simply because they've earned it.

I mean, everyone always talks about vets "leading by example".  Well, if the example they're setting is a poor one, and the coach is endorsing that, can you really blame the young guys for getting the wrong idea?

That in no way excuses BBD for being an idiot, but come on, Doc needs to hold *all* of his players to a high standard.

I agree with this as well.  But for this particular incident I think Doc would have criticized anyone who made that dumb of a play.  I think the bigger thing to take away from this is that Big Baby makes a lot of dumb, emotionally-charged (for lack of a better word) plays.

[Neurotic Guy]

Maybe it's how the NBA works, but I don't like this "veterans can take plays off" / "it's okay when KG picks up a tech" mindset.  If somebody makes a stupid play, come down on them, no matter who it is.

One of Doc's faults, in my opinion, is that he defers way too much to his veterans.  That can work great when the team is self-motivated (see, e.g., 2008 team).  However, when a team is struggling or is being outright lazy, I don't think it's right to give the vets a free pass, simply because they've earned it.

That in no way excuses BBD for being an idiot, but come on, Doc needs to hold *all* of his players to a high standard.

Generally, I agree that it is ineffective to have 2 distinct sets of standards.  But, on the other hand, player personality and individualized motivators are factors all great coaches take into consideration.  Best results rarely occur by blindly treating all people exactly the same.  So -- vets should be accountable for bad behavior, but Doc also needs to take into account individual needs and personalities of his players.  If you don't think Belichick, Parcells, Auerbach, Wooden, etc. did/do that to some extent then you haven't heard them speak on the subject.

[2short]

coward is a bit strong of a statement here
comments aside if i was coach i would have yanked davis immediately myself
he lost the ball got mad and TOOK out the other player
mind you i'd be pulling rasheed quite a bit or sitting him
davis shows so many signs of being a BABY, I'll be happy when he's put into a trade

[Chris]

Maybe he is a hypocrite, but I don't think I would call him a coward.  

As for why he does this with Baby, and not Sheed...well, its all about motivation.  Different players respond to different things.  Davis responds to "tough love".  When he gets too comfortable, he gets lazy and cocky.  I think he needed to be called out like that.  It wasn't anything overly critical, just a statement of the obvious that it was a dumb move.  

I do think it would be nice to hear Doc call out Sheed for all of the stuff he does...but unlike with Baby, it would likely not have any positive impact on Sheed's play.  I think Sheed has shown over his career that he does not respond positively to "tough love".  He is more likely to turn it off completely.  So while it would be nice to see as fans, Doc would be shooting himself in the foot to treat him the same way as Baby.

Haven't you heard the stories about Red always beating up on Tommy in practices, because he knew he could take it more than the other guys?  I think that is what is going on here.  Doc knows Davis gets over things quickly, and often turns a negative into a positive by working harder.  So he makes an example of him.  

[shookones99]

Maybe it's how the NBA works, but I don't like this "veterans can take plays off" / "it's okay when KG picks up a tech" mindset.  If somebody makes a stupid play, come down on them, no matter who it is.

One of Doc's faults, in my opinion, is that he defers way too much to his veterans.  That can work great when the team is self-motivated (see, e.g., 2008 team).  However, when a team is struggling or is being outright lazy, I don't think it's right to give the vets a free pass, simply because they've earned it.

That in no way excuses BBD for being an idiot, but come on, Doc needs to hold *all* of his players to a high standard.

Generally, I agree that it is ineffective to have 2 distinct sets of standards.  But, on the other hand, player personality and individualized motivators are factors all great coaches take into consideration.  Best results rarely occur by blindly treating all people exactly the same.  So -- vets should be accountable for bad behavior, but Doc also needs to take into account individual needs and personalities of his players.  If you don't think Belichick, Parcells, Auerbach, Wooden, etc. did/do that to some extent then you haven't heard them speak on the subject.

Agree TP

[BudweiserCeltic]

The things I don't like in that quote are:

You’re not [Kevin] Garnett or one of those guys.

. . . I just told him, he’s not at that point yet in his life where he can turn it on or off. And we need him to be an every-possession player.

Maybe it's how the NBA works, but I don't like this "veterans can take plays off" / "it's okay when KG picks up a tech" mindset.  If somebody makes a stupid play, come down on them, no matter who it is.

One of Doc's faults, in my opinion, is that he defers way too much to his veterans.  That can work great when the team is self-motivated (see, e.g., 2008 team).  However, when a team is struggling or is being outright lazy, I don't think it's right to give the vets a free pass, simply because they've earned it.

I mean, everyone always talks about vets "leading by example".  Well, if the example they're setting is a poor one, and the coach is endorsing that, can you really blame the young guys for getting the wrong idea?

That in no way excuses BBD for being an idiot, but come on, Doc needs to hold *all* of his players to a high standard.

I agree with most of what you say in there, but then we have to remember that each player has a role to play.

So if Doc asks less of the starters in a per possession basis, while demanding no plays off from his role players I'm quite fine with it.

But, also he mentioned Kevin. He didn't mention veterans. He mentioned the elite. Baby is still a very emotional player, and it's way tougher for him to turn it around in the game itself when his mindset goes awry.

So those are parts of the context that needs to be taken into consideration, not that I fully agree with him in all regards to the matter, but that's just the way it is.

[BballTim]

The things I don't like in that quote are:

You’re not [Kevin] Garnett or one of those guys.

. . . I just told him, he’s not at that point yet in his life where he can turn it on or off. And we need him to be an every-possession player.

Maybe it's how the NBA works, but I don't like this "veterans can take plays off" / "it's okay when KG picks up a tech" mindset.  If somebody makes a stupid play, come down on them, no matter who it is.

One of Doc's faults, in my opinion, is that he defers way too much to his veterans.  That can work great when the team is self-motivated (see, e.g., 2008 team).  However, when a team is struggling or is being outright lazy, I don't think it's right to give the vets a free pass, simply because they've earned it.

I mean, everyone always talks about vets "leading by example".  Well, if the example they're setting is a poor one, and the coach is endorsing that, can you really blame the young guys for getting the wrong idea?

That in no way excuses BBD for being an idiot, but come on, Doc needs to hold *all* of his players to a high standard.

  Just to be clear, he wasn't saying that it's alright for KG to pick up a tech and take plays off. But it's also the case that the way Paul and Ray and KG prepare for the playoffs is probably different than what Baby should be doing. In fact, I'd say that the way he plays over the next few weeks could determine how prominent a role he has in the playoff rotations.

  And, as was mentioned, it was stupid. He lost the ball, grabbed whoever got it and ran him over and then complained about the call. I think that one of the papers also said that he was arguing with Doc in between the end of the play and his permananent (for that game) seat on the bench.

[connerhenry43]

the tech BBD got was terrible, but if i was the coach i would overlook it at that moment because of the fact that like him or not, BBD is giving amazing effort the last 2 months. I would talk to him about it later. i could eb wrong, but picking up techs has not been a problem for BBD as far as I can remember.

but when you sign sheed, you are telling your team that you can do what you want and you can put your own emotions in front of the team if you are upset. I do not see why BBD getting one here is a huge deal and the fact that sheed, who has mailed it in from day one, gets a free pass. because, as dennis green would say, he is who we thought he was? it is a double standard. me, i would favor the guy who has been giving top effort, and I do not care who is the veteran.

[Greenbean]

The things I don't like in that quote are:

You’re not [Kevin] Garnett or one of those guys.

. . . I just told him, he’s not at that point yet in his life where he can turn it on or off. And we need him to be an every-possession player.

Maybe it's how the NBA works, but I don't like this "veterans can take plays off" / "it's okay when KG picks up a tech" mindset.  If somebody makes a stupid play, come down on them, no matter who it is.

One of Doc's faults, in my opinion, is that he defers way too much to his veterans.  That can work great when the team is self-motivated (see, e.g., 2008 team).  However, when a team is struggling or is being outright lazy, I don't think it's right to give the vets a free pass, simply because they've earned it.

I mean, everyone always talks about vets "leading by example".  Well, if the example they're setting is a poor one, and the coach is endorsing that, can you really blame the young guys for getting the wrong idea?

That in no way excuses BBD for being an idiot, but come on, Doc needs to hold *all* of his players to a high standard.

Sometimes Roy...sometimes....

I hate that i agree with nearly everything you say about the Celtics.

[Vermont Green]

Maybe it's how the NBA works, but I don't like this "veterans can take plays off" / "it's okay when KG picks up a tech" mindset.  If somebody makes a stupid play, come down on them, no matter who it is.

I thought that what Doc was trying to say is that a vet might get away with a little back-talk to the refs but that Davis isn't.

I don't agree with this but vets and stars are definitely treated differently than others.  Davis is going to get some bad calls on him (and this probably wasn't even a bad call) and if he mouths off to the ref, he is going to get Tee-ed up.