Tim Duncan or KG

[wdleehi]

Duncan.

He won a title with Robinson, Avery and Elliot. 


Then without missing a beat.


He won titles with a completely different cast put around him. 



He lead his team to 4 titles.  (Horry was a role player on every team he was ever on in the NBA)

And yes, I harp on the leading teams to titles.  That's what Russel did.  That's what Bird did.  That's what Magic did.  That's what Jordon did.  Lead their teams to multiple titles. 


Looking at just stats, they are close.

Looking at their defense, they are close.

Looking at their leadership, they are close.


Looking at who stepped up and lead his team to titles, Duncan 4, KG 1. 

And Duncan never had players as good as Pierce and Ray.  (Robinson was past his prime when they played together.  Still good defensively, but lost a step offensively.  Much like KG this year)

[Fafnir]

Duncan leads in career points per game (and per minute), rebounds per game (and per minute), FG%, and blocks.  KG leads in assists and steals.  The same holds true for the playoffs.

Duncan has the better stats, and has won more.  From my perspective, Duncan wins by a comfortable margin.

The stats argument is a bit deceptive, because of the high school vs college issue.  Garnett and Duncan were born a month apart in the same year, and I think it perfectly valid to compare their numbers during the time both have been in the league (in other words, that KG was "struggling" relatively speaking during the time when Duncan was in college seems irrelevant to the question of whose career was better). 

So, since Duncan entered the league in '97, here are their averages:

Duncan: 21.4 points, 51% FG, 69% FT, 11.7 reb, 3.2 asts, 2.4 blocks, .8 steals, 2.8 TOs, 37 min/game

Garnett: 21.3 points, 50% FG, 79% FT, 11.8 reb, 4.6 asts, 1.6 blocks, 1.4 steals, 2.6 TOs, 38 min/game

I'm a big advocate of advanced stats, but even if you just keep it simple and look at their box score stats for the past 12 years it is very evident that they were very similar statistical players.  If someone thinks Duncan is better I respect it, and would have fun debating it, but the "Duncan's stats are better" argument is pretty weak, on top of not really being accurate.

They are as close to equivalent players in the end as you will ever find in the same era and at the same position, Duncan was on better teams so he has more rings.

The scored at roughly the same rate, with the same efficiency. They were both ++ rebounders, ++ defenders, and great team players. Duncan was better at post defense and Garnett was better at the screen and roll and recovering on the outside.

I think Garnett was the more valuable defender, and Duncan was the better offensive player because of his post game. But the differences between their strengths is small.

[Fafnir]

Looking at who stepped up and lead his team to titles, Duncan 4, KG 1. 

And Duncan never had players as good as Pierce and Ray.  (Robinson was past his prime when they played together.  Still good defensively, but lost a step offensively.  Much like KG this year)

Look at their teammates. KG has had how many teams that were good enough to win a title, four? One with the T-Wolves and all of his years with the C's.(If we count this year)

Duncan has had a legit contending team around him far more often. One player has had 4 chances at a ring and the other has had at least 8.

Basketball is a team game when you're counting rings.

[wdleehi]

Looking at who stepped up and lead his team to titles, Duncan 4, KG 1. 

And Duncan never had players as good as Pierce and Ray.  (Robinson was past his prime when they played together.  Still good defensively, but lost a step offensively.  Much like KG this year)

Look at their teammates. KG has had how many teams that were good enough to win a title, four? One with the T-Wolves and all of his years with the C's.(If we count this year)

Duncan has had a legit contending team around him far more often. One player has had 4 chances at a ring and the other has had at least 8.

Basketball is a team game.

I disagree.  He had many teams with talent.  On a lot of those teams, he had to be the main offensive threat and the one who they needed to create to win a game.  It was his last two seasons in Minn that the floor dropped out.

Duncan had to go through a team turnover, and he kept winning.  No down year. 



With that said, both are among the three best PFs ever to play in the league.


1) Duncan
2) Mchale
3) KG

[Fafnir]

Looking at who stepped up and lead his team to titles, Duncan 4, KG 1. 

And Duncan never had players as good as Pierce and Ray.  (Robinson was past his prime when they played together.  Still good defensively, but lost a step offensively.  Much like KG this year)

Look at their teammates. KG has had how many teams that were good enough to win a title, four? One with the T-Wolves and all of his years with the C's.(If we count this year)

Duncan has had a legit contending team around him far more often. One player has had 4 chances at a ring and the other has had at least 8.

Basketball is a team game.

I disagree.  He had many teams with talent. 

Which ones? Which talented second tier talents did KG have to play with?

[Fafnir]

1) Duncan
2) Mchale
3) KG

I think McHale loses out to KG on that list based on his length of being a top tier guy. His peak was amazing, but he was de-railed too much by injury and fell off.

[wdleehi]

Looking at who stepped up and lead his team to titles, Duncan 4, KG 1. 

And Duncan never had players as good as Pierce and Ray.  (Robinson was past his prime when they played together.  Still good defensively, but lost a step offensively.  Much like KG this year)

Look at their teammates. KG has had how many teams that were good enough to win a title, four? One with the T-Wolves and all of his years with the C's.(If we count this year)

Duncan has had a legit contending team around him far more often. One player has had 4 chances at a ring and the other has had at least 8.

Basketball is a team game.

I disagree.  He had many teams with talent. 

Which ones? Which talented second tier talents did KG have to play with?

Early on
Googs and Marbury
Then Brandon, Smith and Wally.

Then they added Billups

And finally, the Spree Cassell team.


None of those guys are the on Pierce's level in terms of taking over at the end of the game, and that hurt KG's playoff winning chances. 

Duncan never needed that other player to do that. 

[buzz]

I love KG, but gotta go with Duncan.

KG is more comparable DRob, an insanely talented athletic specimen who got so keyed up by big games that he needed to be dragged across the finish line by his teammates to finally get his ring.

TD is not scared to win and never was. A quiet assassin who doesn't get half the credit he deserves for being one of the two best players of the last 12 years (with Kobe). Shouldn't be so penalized just for having a boring style of play. He's patient, calm, focused and he ALWAYS makes the correct play under pressure.

What he did to the Pistons in the last 15 minutes of Game 7 in the 2005 Finals was one of the most underrated performances ever. So what if it was boring?

[LB3533]

Looking at who stepped up and lead his team to titles, Duncan 4, KG 1. 

And Duncan never had players as good as Pierce and Ray.  (Robinson was past his prime when they played together.  Still good defensively, but lost a step offensively.  Much like KG this year)

Look at their teammates. KG has had how many teams that were good enough to win a title, four? One with the T-Wolves and all of his years with the C's.(If we count this year)

Duncan has had a legit contending team around him far more often. One player has had 4 chances at a ring and the other has had at least 8.

Basketball is a team game.

I disagree.  He had many teams with talent. 

Which ones? Which talented second tier talents did KG have to play with?

Early on
Googs and Marbury
Then Brandon, Smith and Wally.

Then they added Billups

And finally, the Spree Cassell team.


None of those guys are the on Pierce's level in terms of taking over at the end of the game, and that hurt KG's playoff winning chances. 

Duncan never needed that other player to do that. 

Duncan need Parker and Ginobli as well as Stephen Jackson.

But wait, Duncan did everything all by his lone self.

[Brendan]

The interesting thing - is given any superstar at any other position than PF, KG is probably your best bet for next guy...

Shaq, KG - would have been sick
Kobe, KG - yeah that would have worked
Lebron, KG - would love to have seen that

etc.

I often think of KG as the super duper Rodman. Awesome D. Great all around guy, deferential offense (but actually good and useful.)

[Eja117]

Just take away championships, would anyone in their right mind choose Duncan as the better Basketball Player, who is inferior to KG at the FT line and perimeter anything (defense, jump shooting etc.) & less versatile than the agile and more athletic and more intense leader that KG embodies?

I think not.

(Duncan really only has 4 titles as his "aces" up his sleeve to fall back on)

Just cause KG used to scream and cry and do all sorts of look-at-me-cause-I'm-compensating-for-no-rings stuff does not mean he was more intense or better.

That's like saying KG was a better player than Bird because he was more versatile.

The game is played in your head, not in a video game.

[Eja117]

So are people here suggesting that if you traded KG's career for TD's that the Spurs get better and win maybe 5 rings, and the TWolves get worse and ....well it's hard to get worse than they were....never get out of the first round I guess?

[wdleehi]

Looking at who stepped up and lead his team to titles, Duncan 4, KG 1. 

And Duncan never had players as good as Pierce and Ray.  (Robinson was past his prime when they played together.  Still good defensively, but lost a step offensively.  Much like KG this year)

Look at their teammates. KG has had how many teams that were good enough to win a title, four? One with the T-Wolves and all of his years with the C's.(If we count this year)

Duncan has had a legit contending team around him far more often. One player has had 4 chances at a ring and the other has had at least 8.

Basketball is a team game.

I disagree.  He had many teams with talent. 

Which ones? Which talented second tier talents did KG have to play with?

Early on
Googs and Marbury
Then Brandon, Smith and Wally.

Then they added Billups

And finally, the Spree Cassell team.


None of those guys are the on Pierce's level in terms of taking over at the end of the game, and that hurt KG's playoff winning chances. 

Duncan never needed that other player to do that. 

Duncan need Parker and Ginobli as well as Stephen Jackson.

But wait, Duncan did everything all by his lone self.

Who said Duncan did it by himself?

He lead his team to 4 titles.  He was the one they could go to in the 4th quarter to lead the team.  

[moiso]

Duncan leads in career points per game (and per minute), rebounds per game (and per minute), FG%, and blocks.  KG leads in assists and steals.  The same holds true for the playoffs.

Duncan has the better stats, and has won more.  From my perspective, Duncan wins by a comfortable margin.

The stats argument is a bit deceptive, because of the high school vs college issue.  Garnett and Duncan were born a month apart in the same year, and I think it perfectly valid to compare their numbers during the time both have been in the league (in other words, that KG was "struggling" relatively speaking during the time when Duncan was in college seems irrelevant to the question of whose career was better). 

So, since Duncan entered the league in '97, here are their averages:

Duncan: 21.4 points, 51% FG, 69% FT, 11.7 reb, 3.2 asts, 2.4 blocks, .8 steals, 2.8 TOs, 37 min/game

Garnett: 21.3 points, 50% FG, 79% FT, 11.8 reb, 4.6 asts, 1.6 blocks, 1.4 steals, 2.6 TOs, 38 min/game

I'm a big advocate of advanced stats, but even if you just keep it simple and look at their box score stats for the past 12 years it is very evident that they were very similar statistical players.  If someone thinks Duncan is better I respect it, and would have fun debating it, but the "Duncan's stats are better" argument is pretty weak, on top of not really being accurate.

They are as close to equivalent players in the end as you will ever find in the same era and at the same position, Duncan was on better teams so he has more rings.

The scored at roughly the same rate, with the same efficiency. They were both ++ rebounders, ++ defenders, and great team players. Duncan was better at post defense and Garnett was better at the screen and roll and recovering on the outside.

I think Garnett was the more valuable defender, and Duncan was the better offensive player because of his post game. But the differences between their strengths is small.

In their primes, I would rate Duncan as a better defender.  He was like a one man wall whenever an opposing player got through the first line of defense.  Duncan was jsut better, period.  And much better in the clutch thatn KG was in the first 3/4 of his career.

[Fafnir]

In their primes, I would rate Duncan as a better defender.  He was like a one man wall whenever an opposing player got through the first line of defense.  Duncan was jsut better, period.  And much better in the clutch thatn KG was in the first 3/4 of his career.

When did KG choke? He had a rough playoffs his rookie or 2nd year iirc, but I don't recall him being anything but beastly in losing efforts most years.