Have you bought into Lebron HypeMachine???

[crownsy]

Older has less to do with this,being a witness to some things in life gives a truer picture than others,nothing more nothing less.

To show what an older guy will do,here's a tp to you,even though i know you are angry.

So because I'm 26 and therefore haven't seen as much basketball as say, Plamb, my opinions are worth less? Are less informed? Aren't as free of illusion and bias?

What are you saying?

Exactly what everyone thinks house is saying, and i'll admit it has some merit. There is something to be said for personal experience and being part of the era.

It's only a bad stance when it's taken to extremes.

[Fafnir]

a player with lebron's skill set would be extremely dominate in any era. He's a once every 20 year player, and he'll finsh up in the top ten of all time, no doubt.

Exactly.

Arguing LeBron wouldn't be as good as he was is now in the 70's strikes me the same as arguing that Bird wouldn't be the same player in today's NBA. Or that Kobe is just as good as Jordan, he just has had to play against better athletes.

[Fafnir]

Older has less to do with this,being a witness to some things in life gives a truer picture than others,nothing more nothing less.

To show what an older guy will do,here's a tp to you,even though i know you are angry.

So because I'm 26 and therefore haven't seen as much basketball as say, Plamb, my opinions are worth less? Are less informed? Aren't as free of illusion and bias?

What are you saying?

Exactly what everyone thinks house is saying, and i'll admit it has some merit. There is something to be said for personal experience and being part of the era.

It's only a bad stance when it's taken to extremes.

Good to know that there are plenty here willing to discount my thoughts because of my age. Experience should be used to bolster your own argument, not tear another's down.

[crownsy]

Older has less to do with this,being a witness to some things in life gives a truer picture than others,nothing more nothing less.

To show what an older guy will do,here's a tp to you,even though i know you are angry.

So because I'm 26 and therefore haven't seen as much basketball as say, Plamb, my opinions are worth less? Are less informed? Aren't as free of illusion and bias?

What are you saying?

Exactly what everyone thinks house is saying, and i'll admit it has some merit. There is something to be said for personal experience and being part of the era.

It's only a bad stance when it's taken to extremes.

Good to know that there are plenty here willing to discount my thoughts because of age.

come on faf, im your age, you know that's not what i mean man

but there is something to be said for first hand knowledge. I often differ to poster's who were intimately acquainted with the mid 80's celtics because i have very little memory of those teams.

that doesn't mean i'm advocating simple dismissal of contrary opinions by younger posters like ourselves, as i said, taken to the extreme, the argument fails.

but yea, i do think there's something to be said for talking to people who lived through something as opposed to making a second hand study of it.

[LarBrd33]

If he keeps this pace for the next 10 years and never wins a title, he's a lock for top 10 player of all time.

LeBron is unbelievable.  He's easily the best player today.  You guys are nutty if you can't see that.

The guy took an elderly Z, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden and Sasha Pavlovic to the NBA finals, for god sakes. (oh... and he was 22 years old)

This is a joke, right?  Get a grip, fellas.  Bron is otherworldly. 

[LarBrd33]

and another thing... they have won 14 of their last 15 now that Jamison is settling in and Bron has a legitimate teammate.   I'm totally rooting for the Cavs to overthrow the Lakers.

Edit: My bad... Actually they are undefeated since Jamison became a starter.  The only loss occurred when LeBron sat out and the Bucks got a victory over his scrub supporting cast. 

Second edit:  Two of those victories were beatdowns of Boston.   I get why people here hate LeBron, but lets be realistic... the guy is amazing.

[angryguy77]

and another thing... they have won 14 of their last 15 now that Jamison is settling in and Bron has a legitimate teammate.   I'm totally rooting for the Cavs to overthrow the Lakers.

Edit: My bad... Actually they are undefeated since Jamison became a starter.  The only loss occurred when LeBron sat out and the Bucks got a victory over his scrub supporting cast. 

Second edit:  Two of those victories were beatdowns of Boston.   I get why people here hate LeBron, but lets be realistic... the guy is amazing.

Amazingly roidlicious that is

[CelticG1]

For the people on here who say Lebron isn't worried about winning yet in his career.  A clip from Brian Windhorst's blog (Cavs beat writer) on Lebron:

* Right about this time every season LeBron James flips a switch. It isn't always easy to see because his play on the floor always looks about the same. But in the middle of March he begins to slowly dial up his intensity as he heads toward the playoffs.

You really start to see it on gamedays. For the last couple of weeks, James has been starting to crank up his routine. He takes more time after shootaround and he prepares more before games. When on the road, there are two busses that come over from the team hotel, an early and a late. Most of the season James comes on the late bus, which is a half hour behind and gets to the arena about two hours before tip off. When he starts his playoff mode, James starts coming on the first bus to get extra shooting and pregame work in.

Before the game with the Hornets, which James takes a little more seriously because it is against close friend Chris Paul, James got his own ride and came to the arena before anyone else on the team to do shooting work. In fact, James did two shooting sessions before he even came out for the standard pregame warmups. Then he went out and went 15-of-22 shooting and scored 38 points.

When the cameras are on and when fans are in the building pregame it can look like James is just messing around, dunking and trying halfcourt shots. At some points in the season he is. But don't just believe what you see, James is working harder than ever.

YOU'RE MAKING MY POINT!!!(Glen Ordway voice) ..... Thats great that Lebron is gearing up towards the playoffs and as I'm sure a lot of superstars are about now. People who worry about winning and have that competativetive edge don't start taking games seriously in March and April. They start in November. Guys like KG and Kobe take a loss in preseason just as hard as they take a loss in the playoffs. They HATE losing and all they care about is winning and basketball. Lebron just isn't there yet. Of course he cares about winning and it's not like I'm comparing him to some scrub thats a stat stuffer. I'm just saying that he has not hit that level of competitiveness that other greats have. His great play deflects it a bit but I just don't think he is as invested into winning as some other superstars. He's got too many distractions and feeds into them often

[crownsy]

For the people on here who say Lebron isn't worried about winning yet in his career.  A clip from Brian Windhorst's blog (Cavs beat writer) on Lebron:

* Right about this time every season LeBron James flips a switch. It isn't always easy to see because his play on the floor always looks about the same. But in the middle of March he begins to slowly dial up his intensity as he heads toward the playoffs.

You really start to see it on gamedays. For the last couple of weeks, James has been starting to crank up his routine. He takes more time after shootaround and he prepares more before games. When on the road, there are two busses that come over from the team hotel, an early and a late. Most of the season James comes on the late bus, which is a half hour behind and gets to the arena about two hours before tip off. When he starts his playoff mode, James starts coming on the first bus to get extra shooting and pregame work in.

Before the game with the Hornets, which James takes a little more seriously because it is against close friend Chris Paul, James got his own ride and came to the arena before anyone else on the team to do shooting work. In fact, James did two shooting sessions before he even came out for the standard pregame warmups. Then he went out and went 15-of-22 shooting and scored 38 points.

When the cameras are on and when fans are in the building pregame it can look like James is just messing around, dunking and trying halfcourt shots. At some points in the season he is. But don't just believe what you see, James is working harder than ever.

YOU'RE MAKING MY POINT!!!(Glen Ordway voice) ..... Thats great that Lebron is gearing up towards the playoffs and as I'm sure a lot of superstars are about now. People who worry about winning and have that competativetive edge don't start taking games seriously in March and April. They start in November. Guys like KG and Kobe take a loss in preseason just as hard as they take a loss in the playoffs. They HATE losing and all they care about is winning and basketball. Lebron just isn't there yet. Of course he cares about winning and it's not like I'm comparing him to some scrub thats a stat stuffer. I'm just saying that he has not hit that level of competitiveness that other greats have. His great play deflects it a bit but I just don't think he is as invested into winning as some other superstars. He's got too many distractions and feeds into them often

This is going to make me feel dirty, but to play devils advocate to MAC, have you told the celtics this?

because they've been coasting all year, and suddenly they look like they give a [dang].

Every player tries to take thier play to another level at the end of the season it's only natural to want to play even better when it really counts.

I don't see that as a negative on lebron, doubly so when you consider that he is DESTROYING most players in the league right now, stat and game impact wise.

 If this is him showing weakness by "not caring", then he is officially the greatest player of all time 

[BudweiserCeltic]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5030453

Whatever, I'm going to enjoy destroying him in the playoffs.

[Witch-King]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5030453

Whatever, I'm going to enjoy destroying him in the playoffs.

Yeah, so could Allen Iverson but we all saw how that has worked out...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01.html

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/86738542.html?cmpid=15585797

[fairweatherfan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5030453

Whatever, I'm going to enjoy destroying him in the playoffs.

Sure, it's kind of arrogant to say it, but do you really think he's wrong?  If he just decided to barrel to the bucket on every possession he'd get 20 ppg from free throws alone.  Wouldn't make the team better though. 

[Witch-King]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5030453

Whatever, I'm going to enjoy destroying him in the playoffs.

Sure, it's kind of arrogant to say it, but do you really think he's wrong?  If he just decided to barrel to the bucket on every possession he'd get 20 ppg from free throws alone.  Wouldn't make the team better though. 

Jordan averaged 30 ppg for the better part of his career while shooting above .500 from the field - only nba guard who could score that often, that efficiently.

[Roy Hobbs]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5030453

Whatever, I'm going to enjoy destroying him in the playoffs.

Sure, it's kind of arrogant to say it, but do you really think he's wrong?  If he just decided to barrel to the bucket on every possession he'd get 20 ppg from free throws alone.  Wouldn't make the team better though. 

Jordan averaged 30 ppg for the better part of his career while shooting above .500 from the field - only nba guard who could score that often, that efficiently.

He came close to doing it for his entire career; Jordan ended his career as a .497 shooter.  His last two years with the Wizards brought him down a bit.

Of course, no guard scored like Jordan, period, as he's the NBA's career points per game leader.  The Big O is the guard who came closest to matching his scoring while combined with his efficiency, and Robertson probably got less help from the officials.

[RAcker]

Can we start a thread entitled "Have you bought into the Lebron HateMachine?"

I'd be on board for that thread to last for days.