rebuilding trade

[Brickowski]

But take back "bad contracts" of young players who still have potential, like Ellis and Biedrins, not guys like Butler and Jamison who are on the wrong side of 30.

I don't know whether or not Rondo will be the cornerstone of the next good Celtics team. He has his strengths and his flaws.  But if he is, you should be looking for players his age or younger, so they can grow up together.

BBallTim, are you serious?  They'll be lucky to hang on to the 4th seed this year the way they are playing.  And next year they will be a year older.

[buzz]

But if the C's are a team looking for good youth, draft picks and/or cap flexibility, why would they take on another team's bad contracts?  They won't be contenders looking for that missing piece to put them over the top.  They'll be looking for assets, not someone else's crud.

To get a star player/prospect?

The lottery is no sure bet either, as Cs fans should already know. Might drop a few spots, might get a player who doesn't pan out.

[BballTim]

BBallTim, are you serious?  They'll be lucky to hang on to the 4th seed this year the way they are playing.  And next year they will be a year older.

  Let me know when we hit the 5th seed this year. Milwaukee would have to just about run the table to pass us. And, yes, we will be a year older. Rondo will be a year older, Perk will be a year older, KG will be year removed from his knee surgery and Danny will likely bolster the sg spot and, if he also brings back Ray, the backup wing spot.

[Brickowski]

There are no guarantees.  Yes, they could rebuild forever like the Clippers.  Or maybe the Grousbecks will sell the team to a Russian syndicate.

But they are headed down now, down down down, with a bunch of aging players.  The question is not, should they rebuild, the question is, when?  The longer they remain in NBA purgatory (a 40-45 win team) the longer it will take for them to become really good again.
 

[Brickowski]

BBallTim, are you serious?  They'll be lucky to hang on to the 4th seed this year the way they are playing.  And next year they will be a year older.

  Let me know when we hit the 5th seed this year. Milwaukee would have to just about run the table to pass us. And, yes, we will be a year older. Rondo will be a year older, Perk will be a year older, KG will be year removed from his knee surgery and Danny will likely bolster the sg spot and, if he also brings back Ray, the backup wing spot.

Hopefully the Oaf Perkins will celebrate his next birthday on another team's roster.

[buzz]

But take back "bad contracts" of young players who still have potential, like Ellis and Biedrins, not guys like Butler and Jamison who are on the wrong side of 30.

I don't know whether or not Rondo will be the cornerstone of the next good Celtics team. He has his strengths and his flaws.  But if he is, you should be looking for players his age or younger, so they can grow up together.

BBallTim, are you serious?  They'll be lucky to hang on to the 4th seed this year the way they are playing.  And next year they will be a year older.

Not likely that they would "throw in" Monta in a Curry trade. I dunno... look at how Danny built the last team. Drafted midround picks and developed them, always had some stiff with a big expiring contract on hand in case something came up and yapped on and on about building "roster value".

It wasn't exactly intuitive, but it worked.

One thing I would do, and Rondo is an asset here, is get younger and open up the tempo a bit. We play the slowest style in the league with all these old halfcourt fogeys. Running uptempo gets everyone involved, the fans stay entertained enough to keep buying tickets and stats get padded (which increases trade values). The only reason people use the word "potential" with guys like Monta and Biedrins is because they look at their stats and are fooled into thinking that activity equals achievement. You even had dudes here at the deadline wanting to take on Corey Maggette, and the Warriors can't give that fool away for a bag of balls.

Now, GMs like to think that they are smarter than the unwashed fantasy sports playing masses, but an honest read would show that nearly half of them are incompetent, or are motivated by factors other than purely basketball ($$$, short term success over long term).

[BballTim]

BBallTim, are you serious?  They'll be lucky to hang on to the 4th seed this year the way they are playing.  And next year they will be a year older.

  Let me know when we hit the 5th seed this year. Milwaukee would have to just about run the table to pass us. And, yes, we will be a year older. Rondo will be a year older, Perk will be a year older, KG will be year removed from his knee surgery and Danny will likely bolster the sg spot and, if he also brings back Ray, the backup wing spot.

Hopefully the Oaf Perkins will celebrate his next birthday on another team's roster.

  I think the only thing that would benefit is your pessimistic predictions for the team next year.

[PLamb]

The only way we could fall to 5th in the seedings this year is if Toronto overtakes us for 1st in the Atlantic

Winning the Atlantic guarantees the 4th seed as the lowest placement

9 games ahead of Toronto with 18 games to play makes me feel pretty comfortable that the 4th seed is all but guaranteed at this point

[buzz]

There are no guarantees.  Yes, they could rebuild forever like the Clippers.  Or maybe the Grousbecks will sell the team to a Russian syndicate.

But they are headed down now, down down down, with a bunch of aging players.  The question is not, should they rebuild, the question is, when?  The longer they remain in NBA purgatory (a 40-45 win team) the longer it will take for them to become really good again.
 

Honestly? I would have traded Ray Allen the second he stepped off the duck boats for our victory parade. And if not that offseason, certainly this past one. While I understand having the false hope that we can still somehow contend this year, IMO Danny held onto him too long and effectively squandered an opportunity to enhance roster value, as he likes to put it.

Once we were at the deadline, it didn't matter much. No player or trade out there was a difference-maker in the short or long-term. Not doing a bad trade could even benefit us later on, as we didn't clog up our payroll with stiffs like Jamison, and we can try to use Rondo/Pierce/Perk to do a trade similar to the rumored Butler/Jamison deal (except as you said, with younger, better players this time).

[buzz]

Hopefully the Oaf Perkins will celebrate his next birthday on another team's roster.

I like Perk. Hard-nosed guy, appropriately paid.

But he doesn't have great trade value unless we resign him, which I wouldn't do going into the lockout.

[Brickowski]

The #1 motivating factor with GMs is keeping their jobs, not winning.

Really, watch the San Antonio Spurs.  They are very much like the Celtics, with an aging core that will be lucky to get out of the first round.

Buford has Ginobili (age 33) expiring this year, two more slightly younger stars expiring in 2011 (Parker, age 28, Jefferson, age 30) and the Big Fundamental expiring in 2012 (when he will be 36) along with McDyess (who will be 38). He has one pretty good young rotation caliber guard, and a decent undersized rookie pf in DeJuan Blair.  The rest is flotsam and jetsam.

Jefferson has not done as well as hoped, and I expect he is trade bait.

But they do have a GM, R.C. Buford, who really knows what he is doing. So I'll be watching the Spurs with great interest to see what lessons can be learned.  

[PLamb]

I wonder, in retrospect, if Danny could have traded Ray for Stephen Jackson, Anthony Randolph and Andres Nocioini back when Capt Jack was making life in Golden State miserable and the Warriors were soured on Randolph, if he would have done it

[Brickowski]

Hopefully the Oaf Perkins will celebrate his next birthday on another team's roster.

I like Perk. Hard-nosed guy, appropriately paid.

But he doesn't have great trade value unless we resign him, which I wouldn't do going into the lockout.

I would do my best to trade Perkins on draft night.

[More Banners]

But they are headed down now, down down down, with a bunch of aging players.  The question is not, should they rebuild, the question is, when?  The longer they remain in NBA purgatory (a 40-45 win team) the longer it will take for them to become really good again.
 

Every team, at some point, needs to reload/rebuild.  The question isn't only when, though, but how.  The options:  FA, trades, and draft.  That's all.

Trades:  requires a good deal of luck in finding a partner plus the right pieces to swap.  Getting something for nothing just doesn't happen.

Free Agency:  requires paying more than anyone else can/will, the definition of "bad contract."  Better for getting the final piece than a whole roster.

Draft:  Where almost all NBA talent comes from, from superstar to role player.  Requires an incredibly discerning judge of talent, a good amount of luck, and about 2-3 years to develop on top of that.

To retool, Danny will likely have to pull off all three this offseason.  

Draft:  I think we can expect to be drafing around 21-23, so hopefully he can find one of the pieces there.  Will Danny take a risk for a potential star, or take a projected solid role player?

FA:  Hopefully the MLE goes for an athletic wing-type (Travis Outlaw?).

Trades:  KG, Sheed, and even PP can hardly be considered assets relative to salary at this point.  BBD and Perk are assets, and perhaps Ray in a sign/trade.

It looks to me like a major retooling would require savvy drafting, picking up an athletic player with the MLE, and unfortunately trading either Perk or BBD for another athletic scorer.  I don't see much change/improvement being possible through only the draft and MLE, w/o moving one of those two (b/c Sheed and KG aren't movable).  Right now, with KG/Perk/Sheed/BBD, the only potential uptempo big is BBD.  We need a change there.

[the_Bird]

Maybe I need to read more closely, but how are we getting cap space in 2011?  KG's on the books, Rondo's on the books, and unless the roster's entirely composed of vet-min guys that's not leaving enough cap space for an impact free agent.  Can't see how we'd be able to trade KG even if Danny wanted to, not until he shows he has anything left.  

There ain't gonna be no ball played in 2011, anyway.

2012's the summer they'll target.  They'll try and win as many games as they can over the next two seasons without taking on any salary beyond the summer of '12.  Ray will get a two-year extention.  Pierce might get another year.  Perk will get traded, since even with his slump he'll command more money than he's worth in twelve months.  Hopefully, we'll get a decent draft pick for him.  Maybe they'll sign Camby to a two-year deal this summer to replace him.

I don't see the team tanking, whether it's the "right" thing to do or not.  Too many years of suckitude to do that.  If they can ride the Old Three to forty wins and a first-round exit, that's what they'll do.  I don't see how we suddenly become a rebuilding squad; we ain't got nothing to rebuild around.  

As to coaches...  I really don't think Doc's as bad a coach as everyone else does, but I'm thinking Larry Legend was wise when he said head coaches have three years until their expiration date.  Thinking a change might be in order.  Wouldn't mind Rudy T or Jeff Van Gundy; established guys, but not retreads - guys that have proven themselves in the league.  Maybe someone different yelling at them would help.