Doc Has Got To Go!!!

[PLamb]

People on this site, heck people that have posted in this thread, have been calling for Doc's ouster for years

I remember reading people calling for Doc to be fired in the middle of the Atlanta series in 2008

And the Cleveland series

And after  an 18 game losing streak

And just before KG's injury last year

And now

Doc isn't going anywhere because Danny is loyal to Doc and believes in what he is doing, his system, and his ability to handle the players and develop them

Coaching in the NBA, and professional sports in general, so often is judged by fans as in game moves when that is probably the least import part of what they do or how front office personnel judge them

Doc isn't going to be fired for his in game moves people so you might as well come to grips with it

[FatjohnReturns]

People on this site, heck people that have posted in this thread, have been calling for Doc's ouster for years

I remember reading people calling for Doc to be fired in the middle of the Atlanta series in 2008

And the Cleveland series

And after  an 18 game losing streak

And just before KG's injury last year

And now

Doc isn't going anywhere because Danny is loyal to Doc and believes in what he is doing, his system, and his ability to handle the players and develop them

Coaching in the NBA, and professional sports in general, so often is judged by fans as in game moves when that is probably the least import part of what they do or how front office personnel judge them

Doc isn't going to be fired for his in game moves people so you might as well come to grips with it

He is going to be fired for his inability to manage a rotation.
You can only use the we are injured card for so long. Now with everyone healthy?

[wdleehi]

Yet almost every profesional head coach has or will be fired as some point.


And almost every good coach has or will coach 2 or more teams.  




It happens.  To say it will never happen with the Celtics is unrealistic.  


The Celtics put together a team they believe should be a title team.

If the team fails to achieve the goals the GM and Owner expects, you better believe everyone will be in the hot seat.  


It is the nature of pro-sports.

[Roy Hobbs]

People on this site, heck people that have posted in this thread, have been calling for Doc's ouster for years

I remember reading people calling for Doc to be fired in the middle of the Atlanta series in 2008

And the Cleveland series

And after  an 18 game losing streak

And just before KG's injury last year

And now

Doc isn't going anywhere because Danny is loyal to Doc and believes in what he is doing, his system, and his ability to handle the players and develop them

Coaching in the NBA, and professional sports in general, so often is judged by fans as in game moves when that is probably the least import part of what they do or how front office personnel judge them

Doc isn't going to be fired for his in game moves people so you might as well come to grips with it

Many of Doc's detractors have never thought he was a great game manager.  His rotations have always been puzzling, and his use of timeouts is highly questionable.  His "Xs and Os" have generally been pretty good coming out of a timeout (at least in the past few seasons), but this year even that has been a bit of a weakness, as he's deferred much too much to isolation plays (usually for Paul Pierce).

What Doc has been is a good player manager.  He's managed a lot of different egos, and kept players playing hard.  However, at this point, I think it's fair to question whether he's succeeding in this regard.  He said before the season that the team had problems with ubuntu last year.  This year, there has been more of the same, at least according to players that have spoken with the media.  Additionally, multiple players have said the team is bored, unmotivated, etc.  Because of this, we're losing games that we shouldn't, which is affecting our playoff season, and by extension, our ability to win a championship.

Primarily, the lackadaisical play is the fault of the players.  However, isn't one of the jobs of a coach to get his team ready to play?  If the rotations, timeouts, and play-calling is going to be mediocre at best, you need somebody to rally the troops.  Right now, for whatever reason, that isn't Doc.

Hopefully, things turn around in the playoffs, but thus far, this has been a disappointing season for our coach.

[PLamb]

Yet almost every profesional head coach has or will be fired as some point.


And almost every good coach has or will coach 2 or more teams.  




It happens.  To say it will never happen with the Celtics is unrealistic.  


The Celtics put together a team they believe should be a title team.

If the team fails to achieve the goals the GM and Owner expects, you better believe everyone will be in the hot seat.  


It is the nature of pro-sports.

It will happen when they fall off

Seriously fall off

Not after a 50 win season where injuries and declining games of older players accounted for so much chaos

I'm not saying it won't ever happen, never did, not once, not ever

I'm saying it's not happening now, this off season or next season unless this team has a serious fall off in their performance next year at which point Danny will blame Doc and fire him to save his own job

But if they are winning again next year and enter another post season with a chance to win it, Doc will return once again



And FatJohn, you are dead wrong

He will not be fired for his rotations

When he is fired it will be because he no longer has the respect of the players in the locker room, when the team starts losing, when he stops developing NBA talent, when he clashes with management or when Danny needs a scapegoat to save his own job

Coaches don't ever get fired for their rotations

[wdleehi]

Yet almost every profesional head coach has or will be fired as some point.


And almost every good coach has or will coach 2 or more teams.  




It happens.  To say it will never happen with the Celtics is unrealistic.  


The Celtics put together a team they believe should be a title team.

If the team fails to achieve the goals the GM and Owner expects, you better believe everyone will be in the hot seat.  


It is the nature of pro-sports.

It will happen when they fall off

Seriously fall off

Not after a 50 win season where injuries and declining games of older players accounted for so much chaos

I'm not saying it won't ever happen, never did, not once, not ever

I'm saying it's not happening now, this off season or next season unless this team has a serious fall off in their performance next year at which point Danny will blame Doc and fire him to save his own job

But if they are winning again next year and enter another post season with a chance to win it, Doc will return once again



And FatJohn, you are dead wrong

He will not be fired for his rotations

When he is fired it will be because he no longer has the respect of the players in the locker room, when the team starts losing, when he stops developing NBA talent, when he clashes with management or when Danny needs a scapegoat to save his own job

Coaches don't ever get fired for their rotations

Will he?


How many times have we seen a team fire a coach because the team only made the playoffs? 



Making the playoffs is not this teams goal.


Winning 50 games is not this teams goal.

[PLamb]

Yet almost every profesional head coach has or will be fired as some point.


And almost every good coach has or will coach 2 or more teams.  




It happens.  To say it will never happen with the Celtics is unrealistic.  


The Celtics put together a team they believe should be a title team.

If the team fails to achieve the goals the GM and Owner expects, you better believe everyone will be in the hot seat.  


It is the nature of pro-sports.

It will happen when they fall off

Seriously fall off

Not after a 50 win season where injuries and declining games of older players accounted for so much chaos

I'm not saying it won't ever happen, never did, not once, not ever

I'm saying it's not happening now, this off season or next season unless this team has a serious fall off in their performance next year at which point Danny will blame Doc and fire him to save his own job

But if they are winning again next year and enter another post season with a chance to win it, Doc will return once again



And FatJohn, you are dead wrong

He will not be fired for his rotations

When he is fired it will be because he no longer has the respect of the players in the locker room, when the team starts losing, when he stops developing NBA talent, when he clashes with management or when Danny needs a scapegoat to save his own job

Coaches don't ever get fired for their rotations

Will he?


How many times have we seen a team fire a coach because the team only made the playoffs? 



Making the playoffs is not this teams goal.


Winning 50 games is not this teams goal.

Well then by your logic he should have been fired last year, right?

[Celts17Pride]

Some people don't get it. This is not on Doc Rivers. It's really pretty simple:

If the Big 3 play like all-stars the Celtics will win. If the Big 3 play like glorified role players they will struggle to win. Most of this year the Big 3 have played like glorified role players.

The only time this season the Big 3 played like all-stars was the beginning of the year when they started out 23-5. Was Doc Rivers a bad coach then?

The Celtics go the way the Big 3 go.

[CDawg834]

With Doc, it may have been a case of right place/right time.  He was without a doubt, the perfect coach for the championship season.  The way that roster was built, with a clear rotation and full of quality talent and players who clearly knew their role, all they needed was someone to keep them together.  Doc managed that perfectly with the theme of Ubuntu.  He was the perfect coach for that particular roster, as it let him play to his coaching strengths while hiding his weaknesses.

But players retire, get traded, sign elsewhere, and new players come in who may not respond the same way.  Eventually the team has changed to the point where they need different things, and maybe the things they need aren't the things Doc brings to the table.

Put very simply, the time will eventually come when Doc clearly isn't the right coach for the particular group of players that are on the roster.  It may be sooner rather than later.  As the saying goes "it's a player's league."

[FatjohnReturns]

The Pierce iso on the wing is the worst possible play to run on our last possesion of the game. If any team did any scouting to how the Celtics close quaters since 1998 they would know the Pierce iso on the wing.

Sorry it is on Doc.

[Celts17Pride]

"it's a player's league."

Your right and right now Pierce, Ray Allen and KG are all borderline all-stars. That's why they are struggling.

[FatjohnReturns]

Yet almost every profesional head coach has or will be fired as some point.


And almost every good coach has or will coach 2 or more teams.  




It happens.  To say it will never happen with the Celtics is unrealistic.  


The Celtics put together a team they believe should be a title team.

If the team fails to achieve the goals the GM and Owner expects, you better believe everyone will be in the hot seat.  


It is the nature of pro-sports.

It will happen when they fall off

Seriously fall off

Not after a 50 win season where injuries and declining games of older players accounted for so much chaos

I'm not saying it won't ever happen, never did, not once, not ever

I'm saying it's not happening now, this off season or next season unless this team has a serious fall off in their performance next year at which point Danny will blame Doc and fire him to save his own job

But if they are winning again next year and enter another post season with a chance to win it, Doc will return once again



And FatJohn, you are dead wrong

He will not be fired for his rotations

When he is fired it will be because he no longer has the respect of the players in the locker room, when the team starts losing, when he stops developing NBA talent, when he clashes with management or when Danny needs a scapegoat to save his own job

Coaches don't ever get fired for their rotations

When he fails to utilze this team correctly and we get bounched out of the playoffs early. He should be fired. If he cant do it this year what will he do the next 2?

[CDawg834]

"it's a player's league."

Your right and right now Pierce, Ray Allen and KG are all borderline all-stars. That's why they are struggling.

What I meant by that is that it's easier to fire a coach than move unwanted contracts/players, rework the roster, etc.  Sometimes, ownership can be stuck with a roster, but they are rarely "stuck" with a coach.  If the players (especially veteran players) start tuning a coach out, the coach is the one who gets sent packing.

[Celts17Pride]

"it's a player's league."

Your right and right now Pierce, Ray Allen and KG are all borderline all-stars. That's why they are struggling.

What I meant by that is that it's easier to fire a coach than move unwanted contracts/players, rework the roster, etc.  Sometimes, ownership can be stuck with a roster, but they are rarely "stuck" with a coach.  If the players (especially veteran players) start tuning a coach out, the coach is the one who gets sent packing.

It's not that they are tuning out Doc Rivers it's that they simply can't play at a all-star level anymore. Yes Doc Rivers will probably take the hit for that but the real reason will be that Pierce, KG and Ray Allen can't play at 2007/2008 levels anymore.

Obviously the hope for 2009/2010 is that the Big 3 can get back to playing like 2007/2008. We will see. If they don't then it will be a short playoff run regardless of what Doc Rivers does.

[LB3533]

If we finish 18-2 and 58 wins (4 shy of last year's 62) and consider we lost Pierce, KG and BBD to injuries for parts of the season; throw in Ray Allen's struggle for the 1st half of the year.....all of that out weighs the progression of Rondo this year....I would say it was actually a pretty good result, the 58 wins I mean.