Question regarding Nate & Rondo

[ScoobyDoo]

And this one has larger implications to me ( going into the playoffs). Yes it's about Doc's rotations (Doc's rotations > is that an oxymoron?).

Anyway...here is/are the questions:

1. If you bring in Nate Robinson, the first capable point Rondo has had behind him in 3 seasons, wouldn't your only goal be to use that PG combo to inflict complete and utter chaos on the opposing team's defense for 48 straight minutes, every night? All out attack mode for 48 minutes.

Instead, I see Rondo doing double time at the OFF GUARD SPOT. Can someone explain that for me? Why is Rondo at off guard, when you have Ray, Tony, Marquis and Pierce, for that matter?

2. Same for Shelden. I've always been a Big Baby fan, though I really wish he'd learn how to clear himself out of the lane after getting a board and just reset the offense rather than getting it blocked down there so much...).

But, C'mon Doc, Shelden Williams had done nothing but fairly good things this season and for a while I thought he was out of the NBA. Shelden has a nice night after Doc remembered he was actually on our team and then Doc buries him again.

I'm pretty confident that if this team can stay healthy, string together a few more wins, start gelling because they're all in tact and get some swagger back that they can win another ring. I'm pretty confident of that.

I see the biggest obstacle being Doc and his inability to manage the players he has. It's like he forgets the players are on the team.

Tony and Shelden are pretty good physical brawlers with young legs that bring the best toughness and aggression we have off the bench and when it seems we're getting outworked, Doc forgets he even has these assets to at least "try out".

I don't see how any coach would be playing Rondo at off guard, ever. E-V-E-R. That's like playing Karl Malone at SF.

It suggests somewhere the elevator isn't going all the way up somehow in some aspect of coaching the game, and it's a fundamental aspect.

I'd rather it was on something more complicated that Doc was terrible at rather than game time adjustments or rotations.

Because if you have the talent and can adjust on the fly and manage your rotations well, you're going to win most nights. Basketball isn't too complicated.

It seesm like Doc tries to make it     

[Who]

I thought Nate Robinson was the shooting guard and Rondo the point guard.

The positions, at least when it comes to a PG, should be defined by offensive responsibilities.

I thought Rondo was still the floor general running the show when alongside Nate.

[Who]

I am quite worried about Doc's choices with the rotation + lineups + substitution patterns too. KG sitting too long. All bench lineups. Sticking with the starters when they need some energy. That type of stuff.

I think Doc has done a very poor job in terms of game management lately and it looks like that will continue for the rest of the regular season.

The one reason I'm not terrified by this is because I expect Doc to shorten the rotation come playoff time and use more balanced (starters/reserves) lineups just like he has in the past.

However, I'm worried about Doc short-changing this team's ability to build some momentum + confidence through his poor game management down the stretch of the season. So while I think there is an end to this issue down the road ... I am worried about what effect this interim period will have on the team.

[JSD]

I'm curious to see what Danny does with Nate Robinson this off-season and whether he resigns him.

[ScoobyDoo]

I guess I just don't see any reason to ever play Rondo at the off guard. It doesn't make any sense to me. Wjy would I ever play Larry Bird at Center, he's a SF/PF, depending on the stage of his career and match ups.

To me, Rondo isn't even Point/Off Gurad. He is Point guard only.

I would tell Nate/Rondo, I want 150% attack mode every second you're on the floor; putting tremendous pressure on the opposing defense for the full 48. If not, I'd tell them you're getting yanked immediately. Otherwise I don't think you're maximizing the trade for Robinson, at all.

Then, I'd let Ray, Tony, Quis play the off. Why else do I have them on the bench.

I want to see Rondo at the off about as often as I want to see Ray at the point position. Basically, never.

And I guess that's my point re Doc.

I think this team can gel and win it despite Doc's inability to adjust on the fly and understand match ups makes it exponentially more difficult than it has to be to get wins.

Agreed re Doc possibly shortchanging momentum in the long view going into the playoffs.

It's simmilar to the way he does it with a player within a single game. Guy's on fire in the first half. Doc yanks him, guy doesn't see another minute the rest of the game.

It's  

[ScoobyDoo]

Yes, me too re Nate and the off season. Ainge asembled a great starting unit but then last year and this year he has not put together a complete bench from day one opf the season and he has never given Rondo a good running mate off the bench until now with Nate.

Pierce hasn't had a legit back up in two years. Don't tell me you couldn't have landed a Matt Barnes type behind Pierce with a couple mil. Probably would have gotten you more mileage than Rasheed.

Jsut curious, woudl you resign him if it were your call?

[cdif911]

for minutes sake, I want Nate at least 20-25 mpg, he's not getting that just backing up Rondo, Rondo should be close to 35, that leaves the two on the floor together, at least 5 or 6 minutes during the game.  So far I haven't seen a team exploit the Celtics defensively when both are out there, which is what I'd worry about - offensively, I want them to have time together to gel, so come playoffs they're almost unguardable

[liam]

for minutes sake, I want Nate at least 20-25 mpg, he's not getting that just backing up Rondo, Rondo should be close to 35, that leaves the two on the floor together, at least 5 or 6 minutes during the game.  So far I haven't seen a team exploit the Celtics defensively when both are out there, which is what I'd worry about - offensively, I want them to have time together to gel, so come playoffs they're almost unguardable

NATE needs more time. Doc needs to put NATE in any time Rondo is not going at full speed. Our super fast point guards are a big advantage over any team in the league, but Doc just plays Rondo to death. Rondo is a much better point guard than NATE no question, but NATE can score at will any time our offense slows down. Doc needs to use his assets.

[ScoobyDoo]

Well, I guess it's alright as long as they aren't getting exploited offensively of defensively.

But at 6'1" and 170 or whatever Rondo is, it just seems odd to play him at off guard where most guys are 6'5+.

Also, Rondo is such a natural point. It would be like putting Robinson on the floor with Nash, Paul or any of the other  smallish points in the league.

I just don't get it. But why overplay Rondo at off when you have TA, Ray and Quisy for that job.

When Rondo's not at the point, I want him resting so he can come in and light people up again. When he's resting I watn Nate going 120 MPH wreaking havoc.   

[liam]

Well, I guess it's alright as long as they aren't getting exploited offensively of defensively.

But at 6'1" and 170 or whatever Rondo is, it just seems odd to play him at off guard where most guys are 6'5+.

Also, Rondo is such a natural point. It would be like putting Robinson on the floor with Nash, Paul or any of the other  smallish points in the league.

I just don't get it. But why overplay Rondo at off when you have TA, Ray and Quisy for that job.

When Rondo's not at the point, I want him resting so he can come in and light people up again. When he's resting I watn Nate going 120 MPH wreaking havoc.   

Amen!
And a tommy point.

[ducksawce]

The C's have an incredible amount of talent in the guard positions.  The one problem (albeit a luxurious one)is that the talents of Rondo and Nate are prone to be wasted if they're not used right.

In watching every single game this season, but especially in analyzing games such as the last against the Cavs, it was obvious that this team needed more than one playmaker.  Rondo is brilliant when he is 100% energetic.  We now see that with Nate as well.  The obvious difference between the two is that one is a scorer and the other is a playmaker.

So why doesn't the team exploit that?  I don't understand the whole Nate with Rondo lineup (except during some inevitable overlap minutes).  For certain defensive purposes (press)it is useful, but only one type of offense should predominate at any one point in the game.  With both in, the styles somewhat clash.

Instead, Nate should shoot OFTEN when Rondo is out.  This will maximize Nate's impact with lesser time, and it will maximize Rondo's time to rest.  WE all know that Rondo at anything less than 100% is disaster for this team.  We only need look at the first 3 1/2 quarters of the washington game.

This way, when Nate IS in, the objective WILL be to score.  When Rondo is in (for lesser time), he WILL be a playmaker at a 100% capacity energy-level.

These are two things that the team needs, and if those two things happen, the rest will fall in place, and the right players in the starting and bench units will get the perfect amount of touches appropriate to how hot their hand is at the moment.

It all starts with the point guards!

[ScoobyDoo]

That's exactly what I'm sayign ducksauce. I don't see any reason ( other than inevitable time lapses when your'e waitign for a whistle) for Rondo and nate to ever be on the floor together.

My sole aim as the coach would be to create 48 minutes of hell for the opposing team's defense by having either Rondo or Nate ( whichever is on the floor ) attacking that defense relentlessly every minute they are in. Robinson with the break and his shooting, Rondo with the break and his playmaking.

Both should be constantly trying to break down the defense.

Therefore, because of Nate's shooting ability and because of Rondo's stronger playmaking while growing his shooting ability, my rotation would be:

Rondo mostly with Ray, because Rondo needs shooters around him. I might play TA with Rondo if I really wanted to get under the opposing team's skin in the backcourt defennively.

Nate with either TA or Quisy. Let Tony run the break, he's good at drawing fouls on the break form the wing spot. Also, as Nate can light it up, I'd prefer to have TA doing the dirty work on D from the two spot.

If I really wanted fireworks from the backcourt, I might try Nate with Ray and I run alot of outside in plays.

But basically:
Rondo with Ray
Nate with TA 

[celts55]

I guess this is slightly off topic, but I was just talking to someone and he was asking if I thought Rondo doesn't like Nate? Appently according to him, it seemed that Rondo wouldn't pass the ball to Robinson when he was open. He claimed at the end of the Wizards game that Nate ran into the backcourt on the inbound play, Rondo looked his way, than forsed it in to Garnett. I did not see the game so I was wondering if anyone else noticed any kind of problen between the two.

[Vermont Green]

I think it was the Detroit game where Doc had them out there together and I didn't think it worked well.  I got the feeling that Doc was responding to a match-up where Detroit had two little guys on the court and he wanted to see how it worked.

My sense was that both were trying to initiate things (play the point) and that the experiment failed.  Nate is very valuable as our back up PG.  I think he should only play PG as I don't think he is smart enough to learn two positions (PG and SG) between now and the end of the season.

I don't think Doc intended for RR to play SG or for both to try and play PG at the same time.

[Brendan]

People complaining about Rondo at off guard are missing the point. It was already said above, but I'll repeat:

Nate should play about 20 minutes a game. Rondo can play about 35 minutes a game (full speed.) That's 55 minutes give or take. Which means you have something like 5-10 minutes a game where both guys will be on the floor. Typically against at least one backup guard. In this situation Nate is playing off guard and Rondo is playing PG (regardless of who they defend.)

Nate is going to get minutes ahead of Daniels and Tony Allen, because he's a better shooter, ball handler, and scorer than either of those guys. The question is: how will Doc use Tony and Quis?

Given the talent level of the starters, plus the lack of energy at times. I wouldn't mind seeing Doc try something unconventional, like have a pressing unit start the 2nd and fourth quarters - to inject energy and disrupt the other teams when three or four starters are out of the game (yes - this is a Bill Simmons idea.)