What a waste. This team is Pathetic.

[Onslaught]

I gotta say, I think this team is a bit pathetic too.  It has nothing to do with whether they will win a championship this year, but last night was an embarrassment, just like the Nets game.  The only difference was they had Pierce back at full strength, and were able to flip the switch, which they didn't have the horses for against the Nets.  But that doesn't change the fact that they sleepwalked through three and a half quarters.  This team went from being a team I genuinely loved because of the way they played the game two years ago, to a team I love, just because they are MY team...kind of like you still love your family members, despite the fact that they are thoroughly unlovable.

I still hope they pull it together and win it all this year...but I just feel like we are seeing what it is like to cheer for the Kobe Lakers, or some other completely unlikable team.  Its just not as sweet.

I hear ya. Not as easy to love this group but I have a question for you. If they win it all this year and look hungry and rested in the playoffs, is their inconsistent and often uninspired play forgiven from you?

For me it will be but I can understand if alot of people would hesitate to dismiss a whole year of 70% effort.

I'd be happy if they won it all. But not as happy or involved in this team as I was in it's first season together. I loved watching that team and wanted THEM to win. I wanted the big three
to get rings. I felt they played the right way, the way I wanted a NBA team to play. Now I just want them to win for me and so Boston gets another banner. It's not so much about them now after they've killed me so many times this year.

[Chris]

So, are we going to ignore when similar things have happened in the last couple of years? Given, this team has gotten a through a tough stretch, but to take issue with a couple of games against inferior oppenents is a bit extreme I think... particularly when it's something that just about every team goes through.

Last year, we had losing games against Golden State, New York, Milwaukee, and the Mighty Clippers.

Our championship year we lost against Charlotte, Washington (twice in a row, 3 times total). Just to come to the playoffs and play some really poor basketball for the first 2 rounds when we should've dominated the opening round.

So, let's not ignore those facts. It simply happens. We just went through some a really tough stretch a month or two ago, and we're putting it all back together now. It's not perfect, but we're getting there particularly with everyone getting healthy.

Although it was before the trade deadline, this Washington team beat Orlando. This Washington team, after the trade deadline, beat Denver... so yeah, they're fully capable of bringing it against top competition when they so desire. Let's give credit where credit is due, this Washington team played a really good game against us, with a lot of ball movement for the first 3 quarters. At least we stuck in there and pull it out, but bad teams are fully capable of having good games so let's not ignore that either.

We're in the middle of a 4 game streak going to 20, let's enjoy it.

I think that this team's troubles go deeper than a 'rough patch'...it just seems like some nights, much more often than a game here or a game there, they are completely overmatched.

Well over the last month or so, it's been pretty much a game here and a game there.

And I find it quite coincidental that it's also occurring when our team has finally begun to get healthy. And I find it also quite coincidental that one of the main reasons why we lost against the Nets was because of Perk, who after that game happened to have a pretty bad flu that made him miss some games (or a game). A game were Garnett was being quite dominant, and only played 28 minutes. A game were Daniels was dominant, and only played 28 minutes (remember, no Pierce). A game were Scal who has rarely played, suddenly plays 17 minutes. I don't know, too many funky decisions from the coaching staff to make me a bit skeptical about an ulterior motive, particularly when it was evident that prior to the game someone was trying to send a message to the team.

But yeah, we seem to be over-matched at times, but it's not as frequently as one tries to make it out to be, when our team is at it's capacity.

If this team is the championship contender that they claim to be, then they should be able to beat a team with 5! wins without Kendrick Perkins (who has been pretty mediocre the last couple of months anyways).

The Nets game was a disgrace, as was the first 42 minutes last night.  It had nothing to do with injuries, but had everything to do with focus and motivation.  

Yes, the C's had a few bad showings in 2008 as well, when they lost focus.  However, it was the exception, where most games they were completely focused for 48 minutes.  This season, I am not sure we have seen 1 game where they were focused all 48 minutes.  

[FatjohnReturns]

A lot of people in this thread don't love this team.

Agree 100%.

True

[Onslaught]

So, are we going to ignore when similar things have happened in the last couple of years? Given, this team has gotten a through a tough stretch, but to take issue with a couple of games against inferior oppenents is a bit extreme I think... particularly when it's something that just about every team goes through.

Last year, we had losing games against Golden State, New York, Milwaukee, and the Mighty Clippers.

Our championship year we lost against Charlotte, Washington (twice in a row, 3 times total). Just to come to the playoffs and play some really poor basketball for the first 2 rounds when we should've dominated the opening round.

So, let's not ignore those facts. It simply happens. We just went through some a really tough stretch a month or two ago, and we're putting it all back together now. It's not perfect, but we're getting there particularly with everyone getting healthy.

Although it was before the trade deadline, this Washington team beat Orlando. This Washington team, after the trade deadline, beat Denver... so yeah, they're fully capable of bringing it against top competition when they so desire. Let's give credit where credit is due, this Washington team played a really good game against us, with a lot of ball movement for the first 3 quarters. At least we stuck in there and pull it out, but bad teams are fully capable of having good games so let's not ignore that either.

We're in the middle of a 4 game streak going to 20, let's enjoy it.

I think that this team's troubles go deeper than a 'rough patch'...it just seems like some nights, much more often than a game here or a game there, they are completely overmatched.

Well over the last month or so, it's been pretty much a game here and a game there.

And I find it quite coincidental that it's also occurring when our team has finally begun to get healthy. And I find it also quite coincidental that one of the main reasons why we lost against the Nets was because of Perk, who after that game happened to have a pretty bad flu that made him miss some games (or a game). A game were Garnett was being quite dominant, and only played 28 minutes. A game were Daniels was dominant, and only played 28 minutes (remember, no Pierce). A game were Scal who has rarely played, suddenly plays 17 minutes. I don't know, too many funky decisions from the coaching staff to make me a bit skeptical about an ulterior motive, particularly when it was evident that prior to the game someone was trying to send a message to the team.

But yeah, we seem to be over-matched at times, but it's not as frequently as one tries to make it out to be, when our team is at it's capacity.

If this team is the championship contender that they claim to be, then they should be able to beat a team with 5! wins without Kendrick Perkins (who has been pretty mediocre the last couple of months anyways).

The Nets game was a disgrace, as was the first 42 minutes last night.  It had nothing to do with injuries, but had everything to do with focus and motivation.  

Yes, the C's had a few bad showings in 2008 as well, when they lost focus.  However, it was the exception, where most games they were completely focused for 48 minutes.  This season, I am not sure we have seen 1 game where they were focused all 48 minutes.  

Every game we played the Bobcats! I'm grasping here. And I actually agree with you.

[BudweiserCeltic]

So, are we going to ignore when similar things have happened in the last couple of years? Given, this team has gotten a through a tough stretch, but to take issue with a couple of games against inferior oppenents is a bit extreme I think... particularly when it's something that just about every team goes through.

Last year, we had losing games against Golden State, New York, Milwaukee, and the Mighty Clippers.

Our championship year we lost against Charlotte, Washington (twice in a row, 3 times total). Just to come to the playoffs and play some really poor basketball for the first 2 rounds when we should've dominated the opening round.

So, let's not ignore those facts. It simply happens. We just went through some a really tough stretch a month or two ago, and we're putting it all back together now. It's not perfect, but we're getting there particularly with everyone getting healthy.

Although it was before the trade deadline, this Washington team beat Orlando. This Washington team, after the trade deadline, beat Denver... so yeah, they're fully capable of bringing it against top competition when they so desire. Let's give credit where credit is due, this Washington team played a really good game against us, with a lot of ball movement for the first 3 quarters. At least we stuck in there and pull it out, but bad teams are fully capable of having good games so let's not ignore that either.

We're in the middle of a 4 game streak going to 20, let's enjoy it.

I think that this team's troubles go deeper than a 'rough patch'...it just seems like some nights, much more often than a game here or a game there, they are completely overmatched.

Well over the last month or so, it's been pretty much a game here and a game there.

And I find it quite coincidental that it's also occurring when our team has finally begun to get healthy. And I find it also quite coincidental that one of the main reasons why we lost against the Nets was because of Perk, who after that game happened to have a pretty bad flu that made him miss some games (or a game). A game were Garnett was being quite dominant, and only played 28 minutes. A game were Daniels was dominant, and only played 28 minutes (remember, no Pierce). A game were Scal who has rarely played, suddenly plays 17 minutes. I don't know, too many funky decisions from the coaching staff to make me a bit skeptical about an ulterior motive.

But yeah, we seem to be over-matched at times, but it's not as frequently as one tries to make it out to be, when our team is at it's capacity.

I think it's how the team plays when it is missing a piece though that defines it.

It seems like unless we have all our ducks in a row too often we're looking for excuses rather than wins.

True, but also that Championship team had the luxury of being healthy year round. How many games did that team have where 2 of the big 3 were out for the game? How many games was our first wing substitution (Posey/Daniels) missed games, and how many of those where when Pierce was out?

So we can talk about how a great team we had that year, which it was, but they never faced the adversity that we've faced this year and we don't know how they would've responded to it. What I do know is that we got to the playoffs (healthy) and had a really tough time against the very inferior team. So yeah, that team was not as immaculate as our memory of them would like them to be.

I'm just saying. And you're right, excuses are excuses, but they're also facts and facts that actually affect the game and has real consequences. So one can dismiss them all they want, but they're still true.

Since the All-Star break we're 8-3, and 2 of those loses where without Pierce. Another coincidence I guess? And the third one, Pierce clearly played against us.

[FatjohnReturns]

Glad they won, but that was a pretty crappy effort for much of the game against a crappy team.

Who says Washington is a crappy team?

Washington may be bad. The thing is the Celtics are probably the most hated team by other players. I love KG but man he never stops talking. Throw in Perkins, mix in  a Sheed and cmon. We dont get any love from the refs and other teams are gunning for us as their big win. Expectations are too high on this board and there is alot of OVERREACTION. You can see the energy level and excitment gearing up towards the playoffs. Lets go Celtics.

Are you really asking this?

In addition to being 21-39 on the season with a -4.0 point differential, since you asserted they had the best trade deadline performance of any team, it bears noting that they have dominated to the tune of 3-6 since the deadline - a winning percentage right in line (albeit slightly lower) than what they've done for the year.

That isn't to *necessarily* refute your claim about the value of the work at the deadline.  That work wasn't for this year, and judging it on the following nine games would have about as much merit as claiming the team isn't currently "crappy."  While I'm not sure how thrilled I'd be about the Foye-Thornton-Blatche nucleus you referred to, what the long term holds is anyone's guess.

But as for right now, based on just about any objective measure (did I mention they're 22nd in offensive and defensive efficiency?), the term Redz used is about as accurate as any to describe the Wiz.

-sw

[Onslaught]

So, are we going to ignore when similar things have happened in the last couple of years? Given, this team has gotten a through a tough stretch, but to take issue with a couple of games against inferior oppenents is a bit extreme I think... particularly when it's something that just about every team goes through.

Last year, we had losing games against Golden State, New York, Milwaukee, and the Mighty Clippers.

Our championship year we lost against Charlotte, Washington (twice in a row, 3 times total). Just to come to the playoffs and play some really poor basketball for the first 2 rounds when we should've dominated the opening round.

So, let's not ignore those facts. It simply happens. We just went through some a really tough stretch a month or two ago, and we're putting it all back together now. It's not perfect, but we're getting there particularly with everyone getting healthy.

Although it was before the trade deadline, this Washington team beat Orlando. This Washington team, after the trade deadline, beat Denver... so yeah, they're fully capable of bringing it against top competition when they so desire. Let's give credit where credit is due, this Washington team played a really good game against us, with a lot of ball movement for the first 3 quarters. At least we stuck in there and pull it out, but bad teams are fully capable of having good games so let's not ignore that either.

We're in the middle of a 4 game streak going to 20, let's enjoy it.

I think that this team's troubles go deeper than a 'rough patch'...it just seems like some nights, much more often than a game here or a game there, they are completely overmatched.

Well over the last month or so, it's been pretty much a game here and a game there.

And I find it quite coincidental that it's also occurring when our team has finally begun to get healthy. And I find it also quite coincidental that one of the main reasons why we lost against the Nets was because of Perk, who after that game happened to have a pretty bad flu that made him miss some games (or a game). A game were Garnett was being quite dominant, and only played 28 minutes. A game were Daniels was dominant, and only played 28 minutes (remember, no Pierce). A game were Scal who has rarely played, suddenly plays 17 minutes. I don't know, too many funky decisions from the coaching staff to make me a bit skeptical about an ulterior motive.

But yeah, we seem to be over-matched at times, but it's not as frequently as one tries to make it out to be, when our team is at it's capacity.

I think it's how the team plays when it is missing a piece though that defines it.

It seems like unless we have all our ducks in a row too often we're looking for excuses rather than wins.

True, but also that Championship team had the luxury of being healthy year round. How many games did that team have where 2 of the big 3 were out for the game? How many games was our first wing substitution (Posey/Daniels) missed games, and how many of those where when Pierce was out?

So we can talk about how a great team we had that year, which it was, but they never faced the adversity that we've faced this year and we don't know how they would've responded to it. What I do know is that we got to the playoffs (healthy) and had a really tough time against the very inferior team. So yeah, that team was not as immaculate as our memory of them would like them to be.

I'm just saying. And you're right, excuses are excuses, but they're also facts and facts that actually affect the game and has real consequences. So one can dismiss them all they want, but they're still true.

Since the All-Star break we're 8-3, and 2 of those loses where without Pierce. Another coincidence I guess?

KG was out with that abdominal strain (I think) for a time and we still won against good teams that year. Nothing like what's been going on this year but they still put some heart
into it.

[indeedproceed]

I think it's how the team plays when it is missing a piece though that defines it.

It seems like unless we have all our ducks in a row too often we're looking for excuses rather than wins.

True, but also that Championship team had the luxury of being healthy year round. How many games did that team have where 2 of the big 3 were out for the game? How many games was our first wing substitution (Posey/Daniels) missed games, and how many of those where when Pierce was out?

So we can talk about how a great team we had that year, which it was, but they never faced the adversity that we've faced this year and we don't know how they would've responded to it. What I do know is that we got to the playoffs (healthy) and had a really tough time against the very inferior team. So yeah, that team was not as immaculate as our memory of them would like them to be.

I'm just saying. And you're right, excuses are excuses, but they're also facts and facts that actually affect the game and has real consequences. So one can dismiss them all they want, but they're still true.

Since the All-Star break we're 8-3, and 2 of those loses where without Pierce. Another coincidence I guess? And the third one, Pierce clearly played against us.

I'm encouraged sans the Nets loss for the most part, don't get me wrong.

But this is not just a health issue. You can tell the difference between a game where the Celtics give 100% and when they give 40-60%. Pierce, Garnett and Allen could all be out, but if the team is actually giving 100%, it's impossible to mistake. The thing that hangs with me is that I have not seen that 100% celtics for an entires since Christmas.

No, maybe the Portland win. The Portland win was good times.

[Greenbean]

I think it's how the team plays when it is missing a piece though that defines it.

It seems like unless we have all our ducks in a row too often we're looking for excuses rather than wins.

True, but also that Championship team had the luxury of being healthy year round. How many games did that team have where 2 of the big 3 were out for the game? How many games was our first wing substitution (Posey/Daniels) missed games, and how many of those where when Pierce was out?

So we can talk about how a great team we had that year, which it was, but they never faced the adversity that we've faced this year and we don't know how they would've responded to it. What I do know is that we got to the playoffs (healthy) and had a really tough time against the very inferior team. So yeah, that team was not as immaculate as our memory of them would like them to be.

I'm just saying. And you're right, excuses are excuses, but they're also facts and facts that actually affect the game and has real consequences. So one can dismiss them all they want, but they're still true.

Since the All-Star break we're 8-3, and 2 of those loses where without Pierce. Another coincidence I guess? And the third one, Pierce clearly played against us.

I'm encouraged sans the Nets loss for the most part, don't get me wrong.

But this is not just a health issue. You can tell the difference between a game where the Celtics give 100% and when they give 40-60%. Pierce, Garnett and Allen could all be out, but if the team is actually giving 100%, it's impossible to mistake. The thing that hangs with me is that I have not seen that 100% celtics for an entires since Christmas.

No, maybe the Portland win. The Portland win was good times.

The way I rationalize it is that we saw a 48 minute 100% effort Celtics team for a year and a half and then they wore out and KG got injured. Playing with that kind of emotion every game takes it's toll on you when you are older.

I am okay with them pacing themselves I really am. It is now time to start playing complete games though. I DONT believe you can turn it on right before the playoffs. You need a good 20-30 game stretch where you develop the good habbits of winning basketball.

That's just my rationalle though. It really stinks to watch when I seem to care about winning the game more than the players do for stretches. That's why I didnt wacth 3 games last week. It was a much needed break and put things into perspecive for me.

[FatjohnReturns]

Glad they won, but that was a pretty crappy effort for much of the game against a crappy team.

Who says Washington is a crappy team?

Are you really asking this?

In addition to being 21-39 on the season with a -4.0 point differential, since you asserted they had the best trade deadline performance of any team, it bears noting that they have dominated to the tune of 3-6 since the deadline - a winning percentage right in line (albeit slightly lower) than what they've done for the year.

That isn't to *necessarily* refute your claim about the value of the work at the deadline.  That work wasn't for this year, and judging it on the following nine games would have about as much merit as claiming the team isn't currently "crappy."  While I'm not sure how thrilled I'd be about the Foye-Thornton-Blatche nucleus you referred to, what the long term holds is anyone's guess.

But as for right now, based on just about any objective measure (did I mention they're 22nd in offensive and defensive efficiency?), the term Redz used is about as accurate as any to describe the Wiz.

-sw

Washing may be bad. The thing is the Celtics are probably the most hated team in the league by other players. I love KG but seriously how he behaves on the court is funny sometimes. I doubt other players find any amusement in it though. Add in a Perkins and mix in a Sheed.

The result is teams come gunning for us, especially crappy ones with nothing to look forward to this year. We get no love from the officals and we are a old team. We are gonna lose to bad teams sometimes it is who we are right now. No need to panic its not over yet.

[indeedproceed]

I think it's how the team plays when it is missing a piece though that defines it.

It seems like unless we have all our ducks in a row too often we're looking for excuses rather than wins.

True, but also that Championship team had the luxury of being healthy year round. How many games did that team have where 2 of the big 3 were out for the game? How many games was our first wing substitution (Posey/Daniels) missed games, and how many of those where when Pierce was out?

So we can talk about how a great team we had that year, which it was, but they never faced the adversity that we've faced this year and we don't know how they would've responded to it. What I do know is that we got to the playoffs (healthy) and had a really tough time against the very inferior team. So yeah, that team was not as immaculate as our memory of them would like them to be.

I'm just saying. And you're right, excuses are excuses, but they're also facts and facts that actually affect the game and has real consequences. So one can dismiss them all they want, but they're still true.

Since the All-Star break we're 8-3, and 2 of those loses where without Pierce. Another coincidence I guess? And the third one, Pierce clearly played against us.

I'm encouraged sans the Nets loss for the most part, don't get me wrong.

But this is not just a health issue. You can tell the difference between a game where the Celtics give 100% and when they give 40-60%. Pierce, Garnett and Allen could all be out, but if the team is actually giving 100%, it's impossible to mistake. The thing that hangs with me is that I have not seen that 100% celtics for an entires since Christmas.

No, maybe the Portland win. The Portland win was good times.

The way I rationalize it is that we saw a 48 minute 100% effort Celtics team for a year and a half and then they wore out and KG got injured. Playing with that kind of emotion every game takes it's toll on you when you are older.

I am okay with them pacing themselves I really am. It is now time to start playing complete games though. I DONT believe you can turn it on right before the playoffs. You need a good 20-30 game stretch where you develop the good habbits of winning basketball.

That's just my rationalle though. It really stinks to watch when I seem to care about winning the game more than the players do for stretches. That's why I didnt wacth 3 games last week. It was a much needed break and put things into perspecive for me.

I just think that being okay with losing is never okay. If you went out, you gave it 100% and you really tried to win, well then I can't fault you. But if you went out and never committed to the game, well that means you never gave yourself a shot, and you did it on purpose.

[JHTruth]

Callingour team "pathetic" is just silly. No they're not really playing at the top of their game, however they still have a chance at a championship. That's not "pathetic"..

In a way, this team reminds me of the later Shaq-Kobe teams in which they paced themselves over the season. It used to infuriate Laker fans who knew the team could blow out anyone on any given night, but Shaq just couldn't go all out every night. And since the No. 1 overall seed hardly ever wins the O'Brien anyway, they could turn it on and win it all. The Spurs were notorious for the same thing. I don't think Robert Horry even thought the season started until the playoffs began.

It's a natural sort of thing with teams that know too well that the regular season is just for seeding basically. This Celtic team has won a ton of games over the last few seasons and let's face it, they have nothing to prove in the regular season. No one is going to give 2 you know whats if the Celtics win 58 games this year instead of 65. The Celtics have already proven they can win in the regular season. Their focus is and should be too lead up to the playoffs healthy and rested..

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think it's how the team plays when it is missing a piece though that defines it.

It seems like unless we have all our ducks in a row too often we're looking for excuses rather than wins.

True, but also that Championship team had the luxury of being healthy year round. How many games did that team have where 2 of the big 3 were out for the game? How many games was our first wing substitution (Posey/Daniels) missed games, and how many of those where when Pierce was out?

So we can talk about how a great team we had that year, which it was, but they never faced the adversity that we've faced this year and we don't know how they would've responded to it. What I do know is that we got to the playoffs (healthy) and had a really tough time against the very inferior team. So yeah, that team was not as immaculate as our memory of them would like them to be.

I'm just saying. And you're right, excuses are excuses, but they're also facts and facts that actually affect the game and has real consequences. So one can dismiss them all they want, but they're still true.

Since the All-Star break we're 8-3, and 2 of those loses where without Pierce. Another coincidence I guess? And the third one, Pierce clearly played against us.

I'm encouraged sans the Nets loss for the most part, don't get me wrong.

But this is not just a health issue. You can tell the difference between a game where the Celtics give 100% and when they give 40-60%. Pierce, Garnett and Allen could all be out, but if the team is actually giving 100%, it's impossible to mistake. The thing that hangs with me is that I have not seen that 100% celtics for an entires since Christmas.

No, maybe the Portland win. The Portland win was good times.

Oh, I know that the problem we're currently facing is not a health issue, though there's still some. But you also can't discount the effect of being unhealthy for the amount of time we were unhealthy on our team. It disrupts rhythm for one, and after we get "healthy" there's an adjustment process. We're unhealthy, we lose games. As we lose games, our energy saps. That's one of the consequences, in addition to having to overplay some of our other players... a double energy sapper.

It would be nice to have the same vitality and energy we had back in '08 to get us through this problems, but we simply can't rely on that at the moment. We have to pick our spots. With that said, we shouldn't have been losing the amount of games we were losing, we should've been playing better regardless and rise above it, but the reasons why they happened are there. But, it's not a permanent problem to bring us down on the prospects of going after a Championship this year.

And the overall improvement has to be noted also, and there will still be some infuriating games here and there, but the overall load has to be noted.

You know, we win some really good games in a row, suddenly we have one bad game and suddenly all is turn to crap, as if our previous positive games are suddenly meaningless, and I guess that's what frustrates me more than anything... more than the performance of the team.

If anything, I have an overall disappointed in how fickle the fan-base is being, and particularly when they demand better from the team without demanding better from themselves.

[PLamb]

What is Bill Belichick's say?

You are what you are?

Two years ago they were a hungry juggernaut that never gave anything but 100% and because of that became a champion

This year, instead of trying to make them that team, or even the team that everyone thought they were going to be in October and November, we should just cheer on the team that they are

They aren't a hungry juggernaut that never gives anything but 100%

They aren't some 70 win team that is going to win every night.

They most probably aren't even a 60 win team

What they are is a very flawed team that is going through a transition from being dominated both on the floor and in the locker room by three future Hall of Fame caliber players in the end of their prime to a team needing major contributions from young and up and coming players and the bench to compensate for the three players that can't bring it every night due to various reasons

This then has led to some inconsistencies and maturity issues that you often see in teams that have to rely on young players and bench players and not day in and day out established superstars in their prime

I think if people lowered their expectations of this team or maybe more correctly re-established what they really should have expected from this team, they will become easier to love

I love the game against Charlotte because it was something that they hadn't done recently(48 minute effort and complete domination of a team) and so I found encouragement for the future in that

I found encouragement in the Detroit and Philly games because even though they were against bad teams, the Celtics still remained a very good road team, which has been their one constant this year

I found encouragement in the Washington game because even though they didn't play well for so long they did something they hadn't been doing all year, they came back from a large deficit and pulled it out with a fourth quarter comeback

Yes, I can, if my original expectation of this team was a 70 win season and an easy championship be discouraged and confounded by three of the last four games or I can realize that this team is what it is and see signs that maybe they are becoming something different than what they are and that will be good too.

BTW, regarding the word pathetic and it's use with this team, sometimes they play pathetically but they as a team are in no way pathetic

[Who]

I gotta say, I think this team is a bit pathetic too.  It has nothing to do with whether they will win a championship this year, but last night was an embarrassment, just like the Nets game. 

Absolutely. It's very difficult + frustrating to see such a pathetic performance against another miserable team so soon after the NJ debacle. Awful stuff.