Bill Walker's play with the Knicks...(merged)

[nickagneta]

Here is the quote I was referring to from a 3/18 article on boston.com

“It was tough,’’ said Rivers. “Unless you want me to sit down Paul [Pierce] or Ray [Allen] or Marquis [Daniels]. So it would have been tough for him to play here.

“But before he was moved, we were going to play him some because he was starting to earn it. He was looking better in the practices.’’

Sounds like proof to me that Doc makes young players earn time in practice and not just sit them because he prefers vets. I think this complete urban myth and crazy notion that Doc doesn't like young players or develop them comes to an end at some point but the believers of this ridiculous notion are just so entrenched in their beliefs.

The problem with the people that think Doc doesn't make players earn their time but just uses vets can be found in the fact that the have no trust in him because they don't like his coaching style. So they need to see that the player sitting sucks on their own and don't trust his judgment. My guess is if they were Spurs fans or Laker fans or Magic fans if they didn't like Pop, Jackson or SVG, they would be saying the same thing about those coaches because, let's face it, they play and have played a ton of vets over the years. I don't think this claim is any more or less valid for those coaches either.

But its a show me for me to believe world and some people just are not going to give Doc his just due in regards to using and developing young talent because they just don't like him as a coach. Facts be [dang]ed regarding all the young players that have become stars and/or viable NBA players under Doc's tutelage. Facts be [dang]ed regarding the number of players that Doc has had under his control that he didn't play that have gone on to become players under someone else.

Let's just keep bringing up the same sorry stories without any factual basis behind them simply because Doc doesn't play young guys to appease a group of people because they won't be convinced these players suck in the NBA until they see it themselves.

You mean you liked watching Raef Lafrentz and Wally Szczerbiak play extended minutes? Characterizing everyone who thinks that he plays the vets more than the developing players as anti doc is a bit harsh.  I would have liked to have seen more of Walker and Giddens when they were here.  I'm not saying that either is going to be an AllStar but perhaps if he did the C's could have gotten more than Nate for them and Eddie House.

As for Doc's comments. Daniels was hurt for a good amount of this year. If he asked should I have given some of Scal's Tony's and Eddies minutes to them how many people would say no?

At the time Raef and Wally played, they were better players than the players sitting. And again, your comment "I would like to have seen them" shows that my comments are pretty spot on. Why would you have liked to have seen them. The coach determined they weren't good enough to displace the people playing in front of them. So why do you need to see them?

The answer is pretty clear. You don't trust Doc. You have to see them and determine their worth on your own. The opposite is also pretty clear in your scenario. If he played them more their flaws could have been further revealed and they could have been rendered just useless throw ins only or worse, so bad people wouldn't even want them as throw ins in a trade.

[CoachCowens]

Here is the quote I was referring to from a 3/18 article on boston.com

“It was tough,’’ said Rivers. “Unless you want me to sit down Paul [Pierce] or Ray [Allen] or Marquis [Daniels]. So it would have been tough for him to play here.

“But before he was moved, we were going to play him some because he was starting to earn it. He was looking better in the practices.’’

Sounds like proof to me that Doc makes young players earn time in practice and not just sit them because he prefers vets. I think this complete urban myth and crazy notion that Doc doesn't like young players or develop them comes to an end at some point but the believers of this ridiculous notion are just so entrenched in their beliefs.

The problem with the people that think Doc doesn't make players earn their time but just uses vets can be found in the fact that the have no trust in him because they don't like his coaching style. So they need to see that the player sitting sucks on their own and don't trust his judgment. My guess is if they were Spurs fans or Laker fans or Magic fans if they didn't like Pop, Jackson or SVG, they would be saying the same thing about those coaches because, let's face it, they play and have played a ton of vets over the years. I don't think this claim is any more or less valid for those coaches either.

But its a show me for me to believe world and some people just are not going to give Doc his just due in regards to using and developing young talent because they just don't like him as a coach. Facts be [dang]ed regarding all the young players that have become stars and/or viable NBA players under Doc's tutelage. Facts be [dang]ed regarding the number of players that Doc has had under his control that he didn't play that have gone on to become players under someone else.

Let's just keep bringing up the same sorry stories without any factual basis behind them simply because Doc doesn't play young guys to appease a group of people because they won't be convinced these players suck in the NBA until they see it themselves.

You mean you liked watching Raef Lafrentz and Wally Szczerbiak play extended minutes? Characterizing everyone who thinks that he plays the vets more than the developing players as anti doc is a bit harsh.  I would have liked to have seen more of Walker and Giddens when they were here.  I'm not saying that either is going to be an AllStar but perhaps if he did the C's could have gotten more than Nate for them and Eddie House.

As for Doc's comments. Daniels was hurt for a good amount of this year. If he asked should I have given some of Scal's Tony's and Eddies minutes to them how many people would say no?

At the time Raef and Wally played, they were better players than the players sitting. And again, your comment "I would like to have seen them" shows that my comments are pretty spot on. Why would you have liked to have seen them. The coach determined they weren't good enough to displace the people playing in front of them. So why do you need to see them?

The answer is pretty clear. You don't trust Doc. You have to see them and determine their worth on your own. The opposite is also pretty clear in your scenario. If he played them more their flaws could have been further revealed and they could have been rendered just useless throw ins only or worse, so bad people wouldn't even want them as throw ins in a trade.

But Walker has shown signs and is worth more now than he was at the time of the trade. Doc is his own words said he was planning to play him some more. Maybe if he played more earlier he would have developed even quicker.

Criticizing one facet of coaching job hardly denotes distrust in an overall coaching job. Why does it have to be taken to the level that it's proof someone doesn't like Doc? I say KG should take the ball into the paint more am I saying I don't trust his overall game. I think Bill Belichick is a good coach if I disagree with 4th and 2 does that mean I don't trust him?

[Ohio Celtics Fan]

First off, no this isn't another "OMG WHY DID WE GET RID OF BILL WALKER?!?!?!" thread. Rather just a comment about his current play in the Knicks vs. Nuggets game right now.

The kid has range! I had no idea, I mean obviously I've seen him make threes (during his limited minutes in Boston and now in New York, I mean he's made several now in New York, it's obvious that it's a part of his offensive repertoire) but, on some of them he's a good 3-4 feet behind the 3 point line. I don't know, maybe that's somewhat normal, but he made it look pretty easy, I just thought it was interesting.

[Atzar]

His lack of a jumpshot was way overstated on this board.  He has a bit of a weird release point on his shot, but he can shoot the ball.

I'd like to see him find his way back to Boston somehow.  I just get the feeling that we'll regret letting this one go.

[JBcat]

Giddens also made a very nice crossover drive past Anthony and then a layup over Anderson in this game.   Didn't think he had a drive like that in him. 

[Ohio Celtics Fan]

Having seen him play a lot more minutes now I can say for sure that I really think he has a lot of potential in this league but, he needs a good coach. He is extremely raw. It's evident that the talent is there, but he needs someone to help him bring that out and make the most of it. I'm not saying that we'll regret letting him go, maybe we will, but he's a least going to have a solid NBA career.

[Rondo_is_better]

Bill Walker talk has increased about 800% since he was traded. We want what we cannot have, I guess.

[Jon]

There's something about the name "Walker" on this board...

[Bossco]

I caught the end of the Knicks/Denver game tonight.(last 1 1/2 qtrs) During that time I only saw Walker hit a deep 3 - get some quick fouls and foul out with about 10 min left in the game. What I was rather amazed to see was that Giddens virtually played the whole 4th qtr and the Knicks beat mighty Denver! My point is that just because you have a young guy or guys on the floor doesn't mean you are going to lose the game. If the Knicks can beat good teams using young players - why can't the Celtics? Wouldn't that give more rest to the big 3?

Another thing: It is NO MYTH that doc loves his vets and if it were up to him he would have 15 vets on the team. Just because young players got some pt under him doesn't mean he "developed" them. Many guys got minutes because of injuries and trades.

Look at the game logs of guys like Gomes and Powe. Does it look like doc thought that they could play early on? He didn't decide it - the circumstances did - there is a difference. Fact: Gomes is a starter in the NBA. Fact: doc had him mostly on injured reserve until he HAD to play him and then he started. doc was not a Rondo guy at all. He did start Tony as a rookie. He loved Delonte. He said that he wished all his players were like Delonte. Who knows what would have happened if West didn't get dealt? He was reluctant to play Perk and Big Al together. In 06/07 Al was coming off the bench until Perk went down and THEN and only THEN did he become a starter. It wasn't because of doc. He had no choice. Imagine if Perk never gets injured? Are we able to trade a bench player for KG then?

Here is one example that stuck with me: Pacers/Celtics  playoffs 2005 game 2 at home. Big Al played 9 min in the first half. He was 1/3 had 5 reb (3 or) 1 ast, 1 blk, 2 pts.
He didn't play a second in the 2nd half! I couldn't believe it.

Raef played 26 min was 0/4, 3/4 ft, 6 reb, 1 ast, 1 st, 3 pts. Blount played 18 min was 2/8, 5 reb, 1 ast, 4 pts.

We lost 82-79. I was mad as hell during and after that game.

Doc doesn't develop young players because he recognizes that they are good. He plays them out of necessity due to injuries or foul trouble etc...

[Bossco]

Bill Walker talk has increased about 800% since he was traded. We want what we cannot have, I guess.

Yes! a coach who can recognize and develop young talent 

[makaveli]

That guy got swagger and that's what you want from a young player

[lon3lytoaster]

Bill Walker talk has increased about 800% since he was traded. We want what we cannot have, I guess.

Yes! a coach who can recognize and develop young talent 

Well, Doc has produced an all-star and someone who should have been an all-star (Rajon and Big Al)

I'm bitter we lost Bill, I really am. I loved that dude, I'd wanted him since he was in high school.. But, I'm realizing now Doc wouldn't have given him time on this roster. Maybe if he was here the year prior to the championship run, he would have gotten burn (Well, he surely would have) but not on this team.

Can't say we missed the boat, when we didn't buy a ticket in the first place, I guess.

[xmuscularghandix]

Bill Walker talk has increased about 800% since he was traded. We want what we cannot have, I guess.

Yes! a coach who can recognize and develop young talent 

 

[ssspence]

Bill Walker talk has increased about 800% since he was traded. We want what we cannot have, I guess.

His playing time has increased 800%. Considering he never played here, there was always alot of talk about his potential on this board.

[nickagneta]

That guy got swagger and that's what you want from a young player

Yeah, the heck with stuff like the ability to defender one on one or properly play the pick and roll on defense, or offensive rebound without trying to make a put back jam every time. Yeah the heck with fundamentals, the guy has SWAGGER!!! Let's sign him up!!