"There's nothing I can do about it"

[Andy Jick]

The Summer of 2010 will be a time of change...  I think Danny must now see that this team cannot win a title.  And I believe Doc will take the fall...  Whatever fire they had a couple years ago is lost.

[Q_FBE]

The Summer of 2010 will be a time of change...  I think Danny must now see that this team cannot win a title.  And I believe Doc will take the fall...  Whatever fire they had a couple years ago is lost.

Why wait until Summer? If I were Ainge, I'd go down there and coach them myself. Doc is not a bad coach, but he is not the right coach for this team.

[RAcker]

Our substitution patterns are just weird right now.  Why was Nate not used to give Rondo some rest last night?  Why is TA left in so long when he's not effective?  When the Cavs started their 3rd quarter run, why did Doc stick with the usual rotation instead of adjusting?

There are lots of things he could do about it and those 3 questions above are just things he could do about one subject...the rotation.

[RAcker]

Here are other things while I'm ticked off, Doc:

1) Why switch to Ray guarding LeCrab exclusively in the 4th quarter?

2) Where was the adjustment on the backpicks of our guards to free up Mo Williams over and over again to pop open in the corner?

3) Why can't we get our big men to do basic things like box out so that Sideshow doesn't look like an All-Star?

 

[MBunge]

It is absolutely true that this team isn't going to win a championsip unless KG, Ray and Pierce are 90% of what they were 2 seasons ago.  But that still doesn't excuse or explain the way this team has been repeatedly dominated at times.  It isn't like the Celtics are playing well and just getting beat by better teams.  They're coming out and playing like crap and THAT is something the coach has to be held responsible for.

Take the way Doc has completely forgotten about Shelden Williams.  He's no all-star but he proved early in the season to be a perfectly acceptable big coming off the bench.  In the last 2 months, however, Shelden has only played in 10 games and only played over 9 minutes in two of those games.  And that's despite many, many games where either 'Sheed or Big Baby were not only useless but actually hurting the team with their crappy play.

Doc doesn't HAVE to let 'Sheed go 0-6 from the 3 pt line.  He doesn't HAVE to let Big Baby get his shot blocked over and over again.  If 'Sheed won't post up - play Shelden.  If Big Baby won't shoot the pull up j or grab an offensive rebound and throw the ball back out to a guard - play Shelden.

This is not rocket science.

Mike

[MaxwellSmart86]

That is a quote from Doc Rivers after the latest Celtics 2nd half debacle.   Read on for more...

"There's nothing I can do about it," said Rivers. "Obviously I'd like to prove it. We'd like to be better. But we're not right now, and we've just got to keep working on it. I know what we need to do. But one night it'll be defense, one night it'll be offense. So we've just got to be more consistent."

Said Kevin Garnett, "I know you guys are tired of writing it in your columns. I apologize for all that. At some point there has to be some action. You're right, you're totally right. Doc has a saying. 'You have to run through the whole race', and we have to do that. Until we as players decide to do that we're going to be in this predicament."


Doc and KG have run out of answers.  When the head coach and team leader don't know what to do that definitely spells trouble.  The Portland game was obviously an aberration.  This Celtic team is still collapsing after halftime frequently and is leading the NBA in most blown double digit leads.

Nothing has changed and time is running out...

Good Post, Jadams, but this point and a few others in this season reminds me of a particular point in the Playoffs back in 2007-2008. I cannot recall which series, but I remember KG not having any answers for the media at that point as well...I think it was against ATL.

The media was wondering how we could be struggling against ATL back then? Not winning on the road? And KG didn't have an answer for it....I guess the point I am trying to make is that even through that dark period in his life, his Team came through eventually. He got his ring and I think he'll get another one soon.

I was just gonna post about this.....

NOBODY except Steve Bulpett ever mentions how Doc almost cost us that Atlanta series---BECAUSE he changed his rotations when the playoffs came...He benched Eddie House in favor of Sam Cassell---it was only when we had NO CHOICE, that he went back to his regular season (66 wins) rotation,that we Finally got right and won the Championship---Doc, ALL BY HIMSELF almost COST us Banner #17.

Now, he's at it again...He needs to come up with quicker substitution patterns...By the time he takes out Rondo and Ray Allen--They're Completely GASSED-and end up USELESS in the 2nd half of games---THUS, we "Blow" big leads.

SOMEBODY in the C's organization MUST see this---they better tell Doc---Cause he is CLUELESS about it...The C's probably want to play hard all game---but they CANNOT physically do it--THANKS to Doc's Horrible sub patterns.

Is it too late in the season to FIX this?

TP. I created a thread a while ago asking why the blown leads, and now i finally have my answer. It's DOC RIVERS. He turns into an idiot during second halves of games. I was absolutely SHOCKED that he refused to give Rondo a breather. A player who we all know relies on energy and effort. Obviously if he never sits, he's not going to bring energy or effort, but for some reason the coach can't figure this out. The players are partially to blame, but Doc is the main culprit in all these collapses. His sub patterns are plain idiotic.

Thanks for the TP---but Doc turns into an idiot in the FIRST half...Playing Ray AND Rondo 12-14 minutes straight...they should be taken out at the 3 minute mark of the First---I think Rondo knows he's gonna be left in,SO-he PACES himself---Thus rendering his SPEED useless...Last night he ATTACKED from the start---probably figuring Doc would sub in Nate to give him a breather---DIDN'T happen---so Rondo comes out PACING himself in the 2nd half---Clev catches up.

[kozlodoev]

Doc is a problem sometimes. Bad rotations, too slow to sub guys, etc.

But that's not the real problem. It's the decline of our top players.

Why are our top guys able to make short work of almost any team in the first 36 minutes of any game if their skills are declining?

They aren't. There are as many bad first halves as the few good ones you'd like to cherry pick to prove this assertion. You don't want to think they're in decline - feel free. The opposite seems obvious to me.

I am not going to cherry pick. Everyone who follows the Celtics should have a pretty good idea how many games we're lost in the 3rd or the 4th quarter since New Year.

[Ersatz]

Our substitution patterns are just weird right now.  Why was Nate not used to give Rondo some rest last night?  Why is TA left in so long when he's not effective?  When the Cavs started their 3rd quarter run, why did Doc stick with the usual rotation instead of adjusting?

There are lots of things he could do about it and those 3 questions above are just things he could do about one subject...the rotation.

Doc always backs himself into a corner in the 3rd quarter. He wants to play the starters as long as possible together, so he doesn't do a subsitution until about two minutes left. That's too long to wait to give everyone a rest and keep a starter on the floor without overplaying that starter. He needs to do substitutions at about 6 minutes in the third. Let Ray and Perk sit then until the fourth; coming out of the half and after playing just six minutes, those two can easily play the whole fourth. Then at and just before the quarter you sub for Pierce, Rondo, and KG, letting them sit into the fourth. That way you have offense on the floor with Ray and rebounding/interior defense/size with Perk.

It's so annoying that he can't figure stuff like this out.

[guava_wrench]

Our substitution patterns are just weird right now.  Why was Nate not used to give Rondo some rest last night?  Why is TA left in so long when he's not effective?  When the Cavs started their 3rd quarter run, why did Doc stick with the usual rotation instead of adjusting?

There are lots of things he could do about it and those 3 questions above are just things he could do about one subject...the rotation.

Doc always backs himself into a corner in the 3rd quarter. He wants to play the starters as long as possible together, so he doesn't do a subsitution until about two minutes left. That's too long to wait to give everyone a rest and keep a starter on the floor without overplaying that starter. He needs to do substitutions at about 6 minutes in the third. Let Ray and Perk sit then until the fourth; coming out of the half and after playing just six minutes, those two can easily play the whole fourth. Then at and just before the quarter you sub for Pierce, Rondo, and KG, letting them sit into the fourth. That way you have offense on the floor with Ray and rebounding/interior defense/size with Perk.

It's so annoying that he can't figure stuff like this out.

Sorry, but there is nothing that he "always" does.

[More Banners]

Our substitution patterns are just weird right now.  Why was Nate not used to give Rondo some rest last night?  Why is TA left in so long when he's not effective?  When the Cavs started their 3rd quarter run, why did Doc stick with the usual rotation instead of adjusting?

There are lots of things he could do about it and those 3 questions above are just things he could do about one subject...the rotation.

Doc always backs himself into a corner in the 3rd quarter. He wants to play the starters as long as possible together, so he doesn't do a subsitution until about two minutes left. That's too long to wait to give everyone a rest and keep a starter on the floor without overplaying that starter. He needs to do substitutions at about 6 minutes in the third. Let Ray and Perk sit then until the fourth; coming out of the half and after playing just six minutes, those two can easily play the whole fourth. Then at and just before the quarter you sub for Pierce, Rondo, and KG, letting them sit into the fourth. That way you have offense on the floor with Ray and rebounding/interior defense/size with Perk.

It's so annoying that he can't figure stuff like this out.

Sorry, but there is nothing that he "always" does.

Not so sure.  He's pretty consistent about some things.

He's pretty consistent about playing 4 guys off the bench together at the end/beginning of the 1/2nd and 3/4th quarters, whether it works or not.

He's pretty consistent about sticking with a lineup, whether it works or not, starters or bench.

He's pretty consistent about not making adjustments, preferring to "run our stuff" with such perfect execution that it will work, even if it obviously isn't, or a matchup is getting in the way.  Then, after the game, he blames the players en masse because they "need to get/play better".

He's pretty consistent about who he will and won't play, even if his preordained rotation isn't getting it done, or players become injured or get in foul trouble.

He's pretty consistent about forcing the players on the floor to work through tough spots and make their own adjustments rather than calling a timeout to stop a run.

"Always" is pretty strict, but he is certainly consistent, and we're a worse ball club because of it. 

The team was once dominant enough talent-wise that those things that Doc does so consistently actually worked...they could work through touch stretches, just run plays through the 3rd or 4th option, and essentially play solid defense while any player could score against the single coverage or pass when trapped/doubled, but the team is much different now.  In-game adjustments and coaching are actually needed now, and it he frankly doesn't believe in that, he's not that kind of coach.  He isn't a difference maker in a game; his strength is in practice, the media, and in the office talking w/players.  He's more of a communicator than a guy actually running a team.

[looseball]

Sorry, but there is nothing that he "always" does.
[/quote]

Not so sure.  He's pretty consistent about some things.

He's pretty consistent about playing 4 guys off the bench together at the end/beginning of the 1/2nd and 3/4th quarters, whether it works or not.

He's pretty consistent about sticking with a lineup, whether it works or not, starters or bench.

He's pretty consistent about not making adjustments, preferring to "run our stuff" with such perfect execution that it will work, even if it obviously isn't, or a matchup is getting in the way.  Then, after the game, he blames the players en masse because they "need to get/play better".

He's pretty consistent about who he will and won't play, even if his preordained rotation isn't getting it done, or players become injured or get in foul trouble.

He's pretty consistent about forcing the players on the floor to work through tough spots and make their own adjustments rather than calling a timeout to stop a run.

"Always" is pretty strict, but he is certainly consistent, and we're a worse ball club because of it. 

The team was once dominant enough talent-wise that those things that Doc does so consistently actually worked...they could work through touch stretches, just run plays through the 3rd or 4th option, and essentially play solid defense while any player could score against the single coverage or pass when trapped/doubled, but the team is much different now.  In-game adjustments and coaching are actually needed now, and it he frankly doesn't believe in that, he's not that kind of coach.  He isn't a difference maker in a game; his strength is in practice, the media, and in the office talking w/players.  He's more of a communicator than a guy actually running a team.
[/quote]

TP for this summation that just about covers it.

[Kuberski33]

Doc gets a pass for last night because he didn't have Pierce and Daniels was sick.  I think that's why Rondo got so many minutes.

Robinson was going to be no help in a game like that because once the Cavs started actually playing defense in the 2nd half, your players need to know the offense and be able to trust each other.

Can't believe more of you don't see the difference between executing in the 1st half of a regular season game when teams really don't focus on the D vs. in the 2nd half -- when the real good defensive teams like Cleveland actually lock in and start focusing on stops.  In order to beat Cleveland in that situation you need an on his game Pierce.

There was also zero defensive intensity from the Celtics which made it easy for Cleveland.

I'm going to hang my hat on the LA and Portland efforts + the fact that games are spread out in the playoffs at least gives this team a shot.  Going forward, the goals need to be:
 
a. Get PP and KG as healthy as possible for playoffs
b. Give Robinson major minutes to get him as ready as possible
c. Consider redefining Daniels role a bit - he probably needs to play more..and Ray needs to play less.
d. Figure out a way to get the defense more consistent.  And you got me on that one save for maybe working Scal in because at least he gives you an effort every time out.

BTW and I'll say it again cause it's still bugging me...Sheed totally sucked last night 2nd half - and played like he didn't care.

[DrGlen]

In order to beat Cleveland in that situation you need an on his game Pierce.

I'm going to hang my hat on the LA and Portland efforts + the fact that games are spread out in the playoffs at least gives this team a shot.  Going forward, the goals need to be:
 
a. Get PP and KG as healthy as possible for playoffs

Bingo.

Looking forward to the playoffs.

[Rashi]

Well Doc there's a lot of things you can do.

Firstly the next 8 games will be perfect to get Nate as much involved as possible. Let him build his confidence with his new teammates on the court, and at the same time give Rondo some well deserved rest against teams that we can win easily against.

Bench Sheed when he chucks multiple 3's. Sheed is so good in the paint, and should stick there unless time is running out and he needs to shoot a 3.

Work on the rotations so that we can bring back the same energy and play with the same force as we do at the beginning of each game. 3rd quarters have been our biggest set backs and we need to do the same thing we do in the 3rd that we do in the 1st.

[RAcker]

Everyone is seeing the problem with Doc's rotations and I think surely Doc has to have been "talked to" about it by Danny and his assistants. 

It is very much Doc's job to keep his lineups charged with energy and not hold on to a group for too long when the chemistry is just not clicking. The coaches are 50% of the story when it comes to energy level in my opinion.  Yes, players still have to play, but to make wholesale substitutions like bringing in 4 cold guys off the bench simultaneously like he did last night is just silly.