What is Ray Allen worth next year?

[Who]

I'm still not sure how interested I am in re-signing Ray. Will wait til the offseason to decide.

I think the question is, who can we sign that is better?  There aren't many guys we can sign for a fraction of the MLE who can get you an efficient 15 - 18 points on a nightly basis.

I'm not certain that I want to keep this Big Three together for another two years. It will depend on how they finish the season + how likely a Championship team they figure to be the following season.

If those answers negative, then I'd be willing to cut the cord and start retooling. Try to add some younger talent that can get serious minutes and develop them.

[RJ87]

I'm still not sure how interested I am in re-signing Ray. Will wait til the offseason to decide.

I think the question is, who can we sign that is better?  There aren't many guys we can sign for a fraction of the MLE who can get you an efficient 15 - 18 points on a nightly basis.

I'm not certain that I want to keep this Big Three together for another two years. It will depend on how they finish the season + how likely a Championship team they figure to be the following season.

If those answers negative, then I'd be willing to cut the cord and start retooling. Try to add some younger talent that can get serious minutes and develop them.

Unfortunately, I don't think we have much choice. Our real chance to retool would've been to move Ray at the deadline for a younger player. With Ray staying, it very much signals that he'll be resigned at a reduced rate this offseason and we're gonna forge ahead with what we have; there's just not the financial flexibility to do much in regards to reshaping our roster.

[Who]

I'm still not sure how interested I am in re-signing Ray. Will wait til the offseason to decide.

I think the question is, who can we sign that is better?  There aren't many guys we can sign for a fraction of the MLE who can get you an efficient 15 - 18 points on a nightly basis.

I'm not certain that I want to keep this Big Three together for another two years. It will depend on how they finish the season + how likely a Championship team they figure to be the following season.

If those answers negative, then I'd be willing to cut the cord and start retooling. Try to add some younger talent that can get serious minutes and develop them.

Unfortunately, I don't think we have much choice. Our real chance to retool would've been to move Ray at the deadline for a younger player. With Ray staying, it very much signals that he'll be resigned at a reduced rate this offseason and we're gonna forge ahead with what we have; there's just not the financial flexibility to do much in regards to reshaping our roster.

I felt the same way throughout the whole season until recently. Now, I'm no longer convinced.

Like I said earlier, I'm not sure which road I'd like to walk down yet ... whether to keep the Big Three for two more seasons or whether to start looking for young cheap talent that can be developed ... I just no longer see re-signing Ray as a necessity, as something which needs to happen since the team was unable to trade him.

If the team isn't able to win a title next year ... what value is there for them keeping Ray for two more years? In letting this team get older. In not developing any young players.

I don't know ... I just don't see it as a foregone conclusion. That is the right decision to make.

[guava_wrench]

No more than 6m per...he is 35 and is confined to being a shooter, he will have good games and bad shooting nights which would probably occur more than the good shooting nights..J R Smith shoots better than him and is younger and makes 6mil per so that should be a good reference point...anything more than that would be an albatross contract.

JR Smith plays like a chicken with his head cut off. Dude does some bizarre things. Full of talent though.

Why did you even mention Smith? Because we played them recently? A player is more than just a single game. JR is shooting 40% from the field, 33% from 3. He's also 70% from the line this season. I don't see him as a reference point.

I don't see why Ray is confined to being a shooter. He is still one of our better finishers.

[bopna]

No more than 6m per...he is 35 and is confined to being a shooter, he will have good games and bad shooting nights which would probably occur more than the good shooting nights..J R Smith shoots better than him and is younger and makes 6mil per so that should be a good reference point...anything more than that would be an albatross contract.

JR Smith plays like a chicken with his head cut off. Dude does some bizarre things. Full of talent though.

Why did you even mention Smith? Because we played them recently? A player is more than just a single game. JR is shooting 40% from the field, 33% from 3. He's also 70% from the line this season. I don't see him as a reference point.

I don't see why Ray is confined to being a shooter. He is still one of our better finishers.

I only saw JR as a reference point in salary...not in talent since we are talkin about how much is Ray really worth come the next 2 or three seasons with the C's..I mean do you honestly believe that Ray is worth more than 6m per when all we saw in January was an almost broken down,dribble and its a turnover, 32% from 3 who is suppose to not miss threes when he is wide open...well news flash, Ray missed as I recall 3 wide open good looks from three last night that had he made all of em, then we could have won the game.

And this is all im saying, we are basing Ray's next supposed contract based on reputation that he has accumulated throught the yrs but not on actual play that he does on the court..he is 35 yrs old and frankly, Though I love Ray, I would love to have guys like JR Smith, Jamal Crawford, monta Ellis, guys that have bad reps but shooot lights out than what a 35 y/o Ray can offer and believe me, his days of getting 40 points are behind him now.

Its like PP or KG, should we give em more than 10m per on their next contract even if its just for a couple of seasons to wind down their careers in Boston? All that will do is cripple Boston's chances of getting the next max player. No other team out there should offer PP nor KG contracts that would be cap killers specially Paul who plays like he is 40 or something, way too slow and more turnover prone now. They're bodies have really started to break down now and a contract of gigantous cap killer proportions is not in the best interest of this team.

6m really out to be enough of what Ray really has to offer in terms of skillset and predicting decline in play for the next couple of seasons, and if Ray truly wants to end his career in Boston, he really ought to give us a truly cap friendly contract as he winds his career down, now that is a consummate pro.

[Roy Hobbs]

No more than 6m per...he is 35 and is confined to being a shooter, he will have good games and bad shooting nights which would probably occur more than the good shooting nights..J R Smith shoots better than him and is younger and makes 6mil per so that should be a good reference point...anything more than that would be an albatross contract.

JR Smith plays like a chicken with his head cut off. Dude does some bizarre things. Full of talent though.

Why did you even mention Smith? Because we played them recently? A player is more than just a single game. JR is shooting 40% from the field, 33% from 3. He's also 70% from the line this season. I don't see him as a reference point.

I don't see why Ray is confined to being a shooter. He is still one of our better finishers.

I only saw JR as a reference point in salary...not in talent since we are talkin about how much is Ray really worth come the next 2 or three seasons with the C's..I mean do you honestly believe that Ray is worth more than 6m per when all we saw in January was an almost broken down,dribble and its a turnover, 32% from 3 who is suppose to not miss threes when he is wide open...well news flash, Ray missed as I recall 3 wide open good looks from three last night that had he made all of em, then we could have won the game.

And this is all im saying, we are basing Ray's next supposed contract based on reputation that he has accumulated throught the yrs but not on actual play that he does on the court..he is 35 yrs old and frankly, Though I love Ray, I would love to have guys like JR Smith, Jamal Crawford, monta Ellis, guys that have bad reps but shooot lights out than what a 35 y/o Ray can offer and believe me, his days of getting 40 points are behind him now.

Its like PP or KG, should we give em more than 10m per on their next contract even if its just for a couple of seasons to wind down their careers in Boston? All that will do is cripple Boston's chances of getting the next max player. No other team out there should offer PP nor KG contracts that would be cap killers specially Paul who plays like he is 40 or something, way too slow and more turnover prone now. They're bodies have really started to break down now and a contract of gigantous cap killer proportions is not in the best interest of this team.

6m really out to be enough of what Ray really has to offer in terms of skillset and predicting decline in play for the next couple of seasons, and if Ray truly wants to end his career in Boston, he really ought to give us a truly cap friendly contract as he winds his career down, now that is a consummate pro.

I think you're underrating Ray and his efficiency.  No player in the entire league hits every open shot he has.  On the offensive end, Ray is giving 16.4 points on 46.0% shooting, and an eFG% of .527 (a number above his career average, for those saying he's fallen off precipitously). 

Ray isn't an all-star any more, but he's a legitimate starter and an above-average SG.

[KungPoweChicken]

No more than 6m per...he is 35 and is confined to being a shooter, he will have good games and bad shooting nights which would probably occur more than the good shooting nights..J R Smith shoots better than him and is younger and makes 6mil per so that should be a good reference point...anything more than that would be an albatross contract.

JR Smith plays like a chicken with his head cut off. Dude does some bizarre things. Full of talent though.

Why did you even mention Smith? Because we played them recently? A player is more than just a single game. JR is shooting 40% from the field, 33% from 3. He's also 70% from the line this season. I don't see him as a reference point.

I don't see why Ray is confined to being a shooter. He is still one of our better finishers.

I only saw JR as a reference point in salary...not in talent since we are talkin about how much is Ray really worth come the next 2 or three seasons with the C's..I mean do you honestly believe that Ray is worth more than 6m per when all we saw in January was an almost broken down,dribble and its a turnover, 32% from 3 who is suppose to not miss threes when he is wide open...well news flash, Ray missed as I recall 3 wide open good looks from three last night that had he made all of em, then we could have won the game.

And this is all im saying, we are basing Ray's next supposed contract based on reputation that he has accumulated throught the yrs but not on actual play that he does on the court..he is 35 yrs old and frankly, Though I love Ray, I would love to have guys like JR Smith, Jamal Crawford, monta Ellis, guys that have bad reps but shooot lights out than what a 35 y/o Ray can offer and believe me, his days of getting 40 points are behind him now.

Its like PP or KG, should we give em more than 10m per on their next contract even if its just for a couple of seasons to wind down their careers in Boston? All that will do is cripple Boston's chances of getting the next max player. No other team out there should offer PP nor KG contracts that would be cap killers specially Paul who plays like he is 40 or something, way too slow and more turnover prone now. They're bodies have really started to break down now and a contract of gigantous cap killer proportions is not in the best interest of this team.

6m really out to be enough of what Ray really has to offer in terms of skillset and predicting decline in play for the next couple of seasons, and if Ray truly wants to end his career in Boston, he really ought to give us a truly cap friendly contract as he winds his career down, now that is a consummate pro.

I think you're underrating Ray and his efficiency.  No player in the entire league hits every open shot he has.  On the offensive end, Ray is giving 16.4 points on 46.0% shooting, and an eFG% of .527 (a number above his career average, for those saying he's fallen off precipitously). 

Ray isn't an all-star any more, but he's a legitimate starter and an above-average SG.

He's the second scoring option, playing 37 minutes a night. Saying that he averages 16.4 points in no way works in his favor. Any player averaging that many minutes as the number two scorer should be scoring that many points, probably more. Ray is also shooting his worst percentage from three.

[Who]

JR Smith is a bargain at his contract. Not many players in the league at that type of money, on a non-rookie deal, that are better than JR Smith. He's in the elite section for that pay grade.

Ray vs JR

For my money, JR Smith is also a better player than Ray Allen -- a better defender + a better rebounder + a better ball handler + a better passer + a better shot-creator + more prolific scorer + a better slasher + finisher at the rim + better in transition. Ray has superior movement off the ball, a superior midrange game and slightly superior scoring efficiency.

JR Smith's scoring efficiency has been a struggle this season but he was very efficient in his previous three seasons posting true shooting percentages of 58.5%, 60.3% and 57.6%. He is a player who can be very efficient.

[Roy Hobbs]

No more than 6m per...he is 35 and is confined to being a shooter, he will have good games and bad shooting nights which would probably occur more than the good shooting nights..J R Smith shoots better than him and is younger and makes 6mil per so that should be a good reference point...anything more than that would be an albatross contract.

JR Smith plays like a chicken with his head cut off. Dude does some bizarre things. Full of talent though.

Why did you even mention Smith? Because we played them recently? A player is more than just a single game. JR is shooting 40% from the field, 33% from 3. He's also 70% from the line this season. I don't see him as a reference point.

I don't see why Ray is confined to being a shooter. He is still one of our better finishers.

I only saw JR as a reference point in salary...not in talent since we are talkin about how much is Ray really worth come the next 2 or three seasons with the C's..I mean do you honestly believe that Ray is worth more than 6m per when all we saw in January was an almost broken down,dribble and its a turnover, 32% from 3 who is suppose to not miss threes when he is wide open...well news flash, Ray missed as I recall 3 wide open good looks from three last night that had he made all of em, then we could have won the game.

And this is all im saying, we are basing Ray's next supposed contract based on reputation that he has accumulated throught the yrs but not on actual play that he does on the court..he is 35 yrs old and frankly, Though I love Ray, I would love to have guys like JR Smith, Jamal Crawford, monta Ellis, guys that have bad reps but shooot lights out than what a 35 y/o Ray can offer and believe me, his days of getting 40 points are behind him now.

Its like PP or KG, should we give em more than 10m per on their next contract even if its just for a couple of seasons to wind down their careers in Boston? All that will do is cripple Boston's chances of getting the next max player. No other team out there should offer PP nor KG contracts that would be cap killers specially Paul who plays like he is 40 or something, way too slow and more turnover prone now. They're bodies have really started to break down now and a contract of gigantous cap killer proportions is not in the best interest of this team.

6m really out to be enough of what Ray really has to offer in terms of skillset and predicting decline in play for the next couple of seasons, and if Ray truly wants to end his career in Boston, he really ought to give us a truly cap friendly contract as he winds his career down, now that is a consummate pro.

I think you're underrating Ray and his efficiency.  No player in the entire league hits every open shot he has.  On the offensive end, Ray is giving 16.4 points on 46.0% shooting, and an eFG% of .527 (a number above his career average, for those saying he's fallen off precipitously). 

Ray isn't an all-star any more, but he's a legitimate starter and an above-average SG.

He's the second scoring option, playing 37 minutes a night. Saying that he averages 16.4 points in no way works in his favor. Any player averaging that many minutes as the number two scorer should be scoring that many points, probably more. Ray is also shooting his worst percentage from three.

Ray is still one of the most efficient SGs in the entire league; he ranks 3rd among SGs in terms of eFG%, despite a mediocre year in terms of three point shooting.  The reason that he doesn't score more points is mostly due to the fact that he doesn't take a ton of shots, as attempts in our offense are spread around.

I know people like to believe that there are a ton of SGs who can do what Ray does, but at least on the offensive end, that simply isn't true.

[slamtheking]

Optimally, Ray gets resigned for something between 6-8 mill for only 2 years---nothing past KG and Sheed's contracts.

C's won't have cap space to sign an FA and there won't be an FA on the market at Ray's production level that will take just the MLE.

By not trading Ray, Danny has committed to this "big 3" through KG's contract.  Also, now that the team officially has no young players to develop, we're now in full veteran mode. 

Next year, figure PP to get a 2 or 3 year contract at hopefully no more than 8-9 mill per year.  I don't see him taking a 1-year deal to end with Ray and KG simply because he's younger and, when healthy, is still the team's go to guy when they need a score.  Also, I can see PP wanting at least a 1-year "victory tour" with the team before moving into retirement.  If KG extends out past his current contract, PP will keep going out 1 more year than KG most likely.

[Q_FBE]

I'm kinda sitting on the fence on this one. I'd explore a sign and trade option with someone like San Antonio or Dallas to see if we can get younger at the two and three spots. Either that or bite the bullet and use Rays money to bring back Marquis.

[BballTim]

I'm still not sure how interested I am in re-signing Ray. Will wait til the offseason to decide.

I think the question is, who can we sign that is better?  There aren't many guys we can sign for a fraction of the MLE who can get you an efficient 15 - 18 points on a nightly basis.

I'm not certain that I want to keep this Big Three together for another two years. It will depend on how they finish the season + how likely a Championship team they figure to be the following season.

If those answers negative, then I'd be willing to cut the cord and start retooling. Try to add some younger talent that can get serious minutes and develop them.

  They don't have the means to get a big money replacement for Ray this offseason unless they work out a sign and trade using Ray. I don't see how signing Ray to a reduced rate for a reduced role would have a negative impact on any plans they have to replace him.

[Who]

I'm still not sure how interested I am in re-signing Ray. Will wait til the offseason to decide.

I think the question is, who can we sign that is better?  There aren't many guys we can sign for a fraction of the MLE who can get you an efficient 15 - 18 points on a nightly basis.

I'm not certain that I want to keep this Big Three together for another two years. It will depend on how they finish the season + how likely a Championship team they figure to be the following season.

If those answers negative, then I'd be willing to cut the cord and start retooling. Try to add some younger talent that can get serious minutes and develop them.

  They don't have the means to get a big money replacement for Ray this offseason unless they work out a sign and trade using Ray. I don't see how signing Ray to a reduced rate for a reduced role would have a negative impact on any plans they have to replace him.

It wouldn't be about replacing him. It would be about moving on.

The best team Boston can put out on the floor next season will be done by resigning Ray Allen + spending the MLE on the best player available (likely a wing if Sheed + Nate stay).

What I'm unsure about is whether it's in the team's best interests to put that team on the floor next season or to begin looking further forward.

And, as I said earlier, a lot of that will be decided by how much of threat Boston are in the playoffs this season + are expected to be next season. If they have a legitimate shot at the title next year then it's worth keeping Ray. If not? Then I'm not convinced keeping him, even though the team will be better in the short term, is the best move to make.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm still not sure how interested I am in re-signing Ray. Will wait til the offseason to decide.

I think the question is, who can we sign that is better?  There aren't many guys we can sign for a fraction of the MLE who can get you an efficient 15 - 18 points on a nightly basis.

I'm not certain that I want to keep this Big Three together for another two years. It will depend on how they finish the season + how likely a Championship team they figure to be the following season.

If those answers negative, then I'd be willing to cut the cord and start retooling. Try to add some younger talent that can get serious minutes and develop them.

  They don't have the means to get a big money replacement for Ray this offseason unless they work out a sign and trade using Ray. I don't see how signing Ray to a reduced rate for a reduced role would have a negative impact on any plans they have to replace him.

It wouldn't be about replacing him. It would be about moving on.

The best team Boston can put out on the floor next season will be done by resigning Ray Allen + spending the MLE on the best player available (likely a wing if Sheed + Nate stay).

What I'm unsure about is whether it's in the team's best interests to put that team on the floor next season or to begin looking further forward.

And, as I said earlier, a lot of that will be decided by how much of threat Boston are in the playoffs this season + are expected to be next season. If they have a legitimate shot at the title next year then it's worth keeping Ray. If not? Then I'm not convinced keeping him, even though the team will be better in the short term, is the best move to make.

Even so, having Ray Allen to a short contract might just be the best way to actually move on and get some value for him. If it doesn't happen, well at least he'll be expiring at the same time every of our big contracts will be expiring. But other than that, we really don't have anyone to really develop with Ray's minutes, and I don't foresee it happening at the moment.

We still have too much talent on this team, regardless of how we perform in the playoffs to not try and build a championship team within the next 2 years. That doesn't mean you ignore looking into the future, but I don't think that taking the step back you're suggesting is in our best interest. Particularly, because the impact of starting looking forward next season would be quite minimal.

The only thing that might change this would be moving Pierce next year, and that's another consideration. But that would only be true if we move him during free-agency, and I really don't see us doing that.

[Who]

If the team drafted Courtney Lee instead of Giddens, he wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to develop like he did in Orlando. He wouldn't have gotten the minutes or the role/responsibilities. Not with Ray Allen around.

Likewise, with Ray here, the team wasn't searching for cheap talent through trades to fill that position. So they missed out on players like Thabo Sefolosha and Arron Afflalo.

Or buying draft picks like the Rockets or the Blazers and trying to find gems late in the first and early in the second round.

If the Celtics sign Ray to a contract, they then commit to doing everything possible to give the Big Three one last shot at a ring. That means signing the player who can offer the most to the team in short window. The best current talent who fits the team. Not the guy who is going to be the best player a few years down the road.

If the Celtics sign Ray + spend their MLE, they will then have reduced cap flexibility. Makes it far less likely that they sign another MLE player the following season. That will be two summers in a row where they'll have passed up an opportunity to add younger talent.

It creates a different dynamic. Keeping Ray vs letting him leave.