Do We Have Cap Space In The Summer?

[divo0oneh]

I was woundering do we? can we sign someone with Ray's expiring and keep him as a 6th man? i know we have our pick which is great since we get to pick up a youngster in a deep draft but can we give a contract to Rudy Gay? i seriously think this is the last yr for the big 3!

[PosImpos]

No, we don't have cap space.  We can resign Ray using his bird rights.

[colincb]

...and sign a player using the MLE which will usually get you a pretty good rotation player. Not sure we can re-sign Daniels though.

A big contract player is effectively out of the question however.

[boscel33]

unless danny pulls off another big trade in the off season, the next few years could be painful!

[connerhenry43]

unless danny pulls off another big trade in the off season, the next few years could be painful!

we sold out for a title. luckily, it worked!

but yes, the future does not look good. factor in that danny would rather be last than middle of the pack, it could get ugly.

[Roy Hobbs]

No.  We can sign players in the following ways:

* Bird Rights (Player can be signed to any amount up to the "max" salary: Ray, Tony, Scal, Pierce if he opts out)
* Non-Bird Rights (20% raise from current salary: Nate, Daniels, Williams, Thornton)
* MLE (approximately $5.5 - $6.0 million; can be given to one player or multiple players)
* Minimum salary (any free agent who will agree to it)

[Bankshot]

So there's no way we can get Joe Johnson? 

[Roy Hobbs]

So there's no way we can get Joe Johnson? 

Not unless we're trading Rondo in a sign-and-trade. 

[Greenbean]

No unfortunately we do not. I wonder if any teams will be looking to sell off draft picks this year for future picks. Here's to hoping Phoenix tanks the rest of the way so they can sell us a pick higher than the 21st we got to get Rondo.

[sk7326]

unless danny pulls off another big trade in the off season, the next few years could be painful!

we sold out for a title. luckily, it worked!

but yes, the future does not look good. factor in that danny would rather be last than middle of the pack, it could get ugly.

The next chance to clear the deck is in 2012 - Rondo is the only contract in place beyond that.  Can we milk two more contending-ish seasons before then?  Key is to keep the contracts beyond 2012 to a minimum.  Rondo would be acceptable, Perkins at the right price is acceptable also.  But otherwise, must take a hard look.   

[gpap]

...and sign a player using the MLE which will usually get you a pretty good rotation player. Not sure we can re-sign Daniels though.

A big contract player is effectively out of the question however.

Blah, blah, blah. If the Celtics want to sign a max player, then they should be able to!!! And if they get hit with a luxury tax,then you know, so what?!!!!

It's not like the Celtics dont' have the money. And as a fan, I'd rather see a guy like Wade, Bosh, Dirk or Lebron in green than some low-level excpetion bum from Minnesota, New Jersey or the Clippers.

[the_Bird]

unless danny pulls off another big trade in the off season, the next few years could be painful!

we sold out for a title. luckily, it worked!

but yes, the future does not look good. factor in that danny would rather be last than middle of the pack, it could get ugly.

The next chance to clear the deck is in 2012 - Rondo is the only contract in place beyond that.  Can we milk two more contending-ish seasons before then?  Key is to keep the contracts beyond 2012 to a minimum.  Rondo would be acceptable, Perkins at the right price is acceptable also.  But otherwise, must take a hard look.   

I don't think they take any salary on (except Perk and Rondo) beyond 2012.  If they re-sign Ray, it'll be for something like 2 years/$16M.  They may try to sign someone like Mike Miller or Marcus Camby, but it'll be for a two-year contract.

Plan B is to do what the Knicks are doing now, but with Kevin Durant as the target.  He should be unrestricted in the summer of 2012, and you've got to believe he'd like to play in a bigger market. 

The tricky bit is Pierce...  you want him to be a Celtic for life, but you want to keep enough space for someone like Durant in 2012.  They *might* decide not to extend Perk, so that they don't end up with too little cap space.  If Pierce and Perk sign extensions beyond 2012, you're looking at probably $30M - $35M combined with Rondo's deal, which may not be enough to throw a max deal at Durant.

[More Banners]

I continue to be amazed by the myth that cap space means a great player will come and play here and make the next incarnation of the team contenders.  We should dispell this myth along with the idea that we can trade an expiring for talent.

Here's what we know/have learned about building a team:

1) Free agency is for suckers.  Players tend to go to the team that pays the most, meaning no other team will pay that much.  It is how bad contracts are made.  Even max players get more by staying with their team, so it's still a sucker's game.

1a) A FA is more likely to use another team's cap space as leverage to get more money where he is, i.e. Grant Hill and J-Kidd last year.  Players really don't like to move their families if they don't have to.

1b) A FA role player will take a discount for ONE year on a contender, but only with the expectation that they prove their value to cash in the following year, i.e. Posey did, and Daniels may be hoping to do.

2) Expiring contracts have little trade value by themselves.  Teams will dump overpaid players, but largely only dump young talent when they absolutely have to, and want some talent/hope back in return in either picks or prospects.

3)  The draft is the best way to get talent, but it's a crap shoot, especially outside the top-5, top-10, if you need a franchise player, and it takes a few years to develop players.  Sometimes, though, miracles happen (PP at #10).

That's how it goes.  It's understandable how some folks have looked toward FA as the hope for the future, especially after our incredibly long rebuilding process.  The rebuilding took so long because of bad trades of picks and prospects, though, not because the draft was the wrong way to go.

Predictions:  If we don't go very deep in the playoffs this year, Daniels definitely won't get more than 120% to stay, and Nate may not get a raise at all ($4 mil for a backup is a lot).  (I think they'd play well together, though).  They may not use the MLE at all if they can't get a player that makes us a contender.

Next year:  expect us to coast even more mid-year, but make the playoffs, getting a better draft pick (around #20) while still holding out hope for the fan base.

[Jon]

I continue to be amazed by the myth that cap space means a great player will come and play here and make the next incarnation of the team contenders.  We should dispell this myth along with the idea that we can trade an expiring for talent.

Here's what we know/have learned about building a team:

1) Free agency is for suckers.  Players tend to go to the team that pays the most, meaning no other team will pay that much.  It is how bad contracts are made.  Even max players get more by staying with their team, so it's still a sucker's game.

1a) A FA is more likely to use another team's cap space as leverage to get more money where he is, i.e. Grant Hill and J-Kidd last year.  Players really don't like to move their families if they don't have to.

1b) A FA role player will take a discount for ONE year on a contender, but only with the expectation that they prove their value to cash in the following year, i.e. Posey did, and Daniels may be hoping to do.

2) Expiring contracts have little trade value by themselves.  Teams will dump overpaid players, but largely only dump young talent when they absolutely have to, and want some talent/hope back in return in either picks or prospects.

3)  The draft is the best way to get talent, but it's a crap shoot, especially outside the top-5, top-10, if you need a franchise player, and it takes a few years to develop players.  Sometimes, though, miracles happen (PP at #10).

That's how it goes.  It's understandable how some folks have looked toward FA as the hope for the future, especially after our incredibly long rebuilding process.  The rebuilding took so long because of bad trades of picks and prospects, though, not because the draft was the wrong way to go.

Predictions:  If we don't go very deep in the playoffs this year, Daniels definitely won't get more than 120% to stay, and Nate may not get a raise at all ($4 mil for a backup is a lot).  (I think they'd play well together, though).  They may not use the MLE at all if they can't get a player that makes us a contender.

Next year:  expect us to coast even more mid-year, but make the playoffs, getting a better draft pick (around #20) while still holding out hope for the fan base.

I largely agree with you, which is why I'm all about riding out our current success as long as possible.  The notion that clearing space = big time free agents is sadly a pipe dream.  10 years or so ago Orlando and Chicago tried that to get Duncan.  Orlando ended up with the chronically injured Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady and Chicago...ended up with Ron Mercer. 

So it certainly is a crap shoot.

However, if we're ever going to contend again after this, we're going to have to get lucky either via free agency or the draft. 

[the_Bird]

Grant Hill's a bad example; if he didn't get hurt, he would have been worth every dime he earned.  If they had traded for him instead, you argument would be why making trades is such a risky proposition.