So without a large trade next years Celtics...

[BballTim]

Our bench for next year sucks right now.

  Our starting lineup in 2025 is horrible right now as well.

Well, we have a lot of cap space then. We'll be well over the cap next summer.

  Well, if you're able to authoritatively predict how much cap room we'll have in 15 years then I guess I'll have to take your word for next year's poor bench.

Considering your glib remarks about... whatever you're talking about.... I'm assuming you don't plan to add anything interesting about Boston's thin crew for next year and financial constraints.

  Other than we had no cap room last year and still signed some players? They'll have Sheed and Baby. They can sign Nate and TA without using the MLE. I don't see the crisis.

Sure. Guess the status quo will do.

  Are you serious? You go from saying our bench will suck next year to complaining about the status quo? Pick a side and stick with it.

[mjammz54]

One more thing to watch.I remember Wyc awhile back saying that under a certain situation we could contend for a max contract player, now obv. that isn't going to happen, but what I think he may be referring to is that Paul Pierce has the option to opt out of his contract.Paul to me seems to want to be a celtic for life and win championships, so I would not be surprised to see paul opt out of his contract and resign with the celtics at a lower cap number, allowing the celtics some finacial flexability..thoughts?

[Mr October]

not mad, just disappointed we got nothing back for the stockpile of expiring contracts we have...they USED to be worth something (remember Raef's contract for Ray in the first place??). oh well. At least we'll have Ray for a few more years at a reasonable price--our version of Reggie Miller.

An expiring contract alone usually doesn't get it done. You gotta throw in a decent pick or an upside player who can actually play.

Raef (and the number 7 pick) got the Celtics Ratliff and Telfair (and saved one year of $$ off that aweful Raef contract).

The C's got Ray primarily for the #5 pick.

Gotta have good young expendable talent or good picks to really make things happen.

An expiring contract alone is only valuable if a team like Boston were willing to take on albatross contracts. Sometimes thats worth it, sometimes its not.

Exactly. I really get tired of people talking like expiring contracts are so valuable. They are only valuable if you have cheap assets that other teams want and they have an expensive asset that you want to take.

What did the Cavs give up for Jamison?

They had to agree to swallow the last 2 years of Jamison's deal. There was no way the Celtics were gonna do that on top of KG, Pierce, etc.

The Cavs had to go get Jamison - Anything it takes to keep the NBA money machine that is Lebron in Cleveland.

[ssspence]

Our bench for next year sucks right now.

  Our starting lineup in 2025 is horrible right now as well.

Well, we have a lot of cap space then. We'll be well over the cap next summer.

  Well, if you're able to authoritatively predict how much cap room we'll have in 15 years then I guess I'll have to take your word for next year's poor bench.

Considering your glib remarks about... whatever you're talking about.... I'm assuming you don't plan to add anything interesting about Boston's thin crew for next year and financial constraints.

  Other than we had no cap room last year and still signed some players? They'll have Sheed and Baby. They can sign Nate and TA without using the MLE. I don't see the crisis.

Sure. Guess the status quo will do.

  Are you serious? You go from saying our bench will suck next year to complaining about the status quo? Pick a side and stick with it.

You called the bench good, not me. Our bench has been better the last 3,4 games. It's been wildly inconsistent otherwise. Meanwhile, the starters need them more and more.

The kool-aid you drink is your problem, not mine.

Meanwhile, when you have a meaningful plan to upgrade this team over the summer, I'm all ears.

[Mr October]

Big ups to Mr. October for finding the link explaining the non-Bird exception.

Currently have 7 players under contract for next season and are already over the cap.  So they have little choice but to try and contend with the same old team a year older.  Maybe they bring Ray back or Tony Allen but otherwise we are looking at alot of veteran minimum type of players.  This was the Chance for the C's to position themselves for the future.  Now they are looking at the New Big 3 ending the same way the original Big 3 did.

That was my mode of thought all through the season but I'm wavering on it now.

I think the Celtics should strongly consider spending their MLE on younger talent who can stick with the franchise after the Big Three. Even if that younger talent isn't the type of player, or position, that the Celtics need most. And even if that young talent isn't quite as good as a veteran player in the immediate future.

I'm not in love with the young wing talent available in free agency, and I'm not sure if we should blow our MLE was on another biggish man, with KG/Perk/Sheed/Baby already on payroll and an increasingly depressing 2-guard position.

Do you have anyone in mind?

Tyrus Thomas + Anthony Morrow

Mike Miller would be first choice if going for a veteran.

Mike Miller would be my top veteran choice too.
Ty Thomas would be cool if he could be had for the MLE... doubt it though.

Can anyone tell me more about Morrow?

[ssspence]

not mad, just disappointed we got nothing back for the stockpile of expiring contracts we have...they USED to be worth something (remember Raef's contract for Ray in the first place??). oh well. At least we'll have Ray for a few more years at a reasonable price--our version of Reggie Miller.

An expiring contract alone usually doesn't get it done. You gotta throw in a decent pick or an upside player who can actually play.

Raef (and the number 7 pick) got the Celtics Ratliff and Telfair (and saved one year of $$ off that aweful Raef contract).

The C's got Ray primarily for the #5 pick.

Gotta have good young expendable talent or good picks to really make things happen.

An expiring contract alone is only valuable if a team like Boston were willing to take on albatross contracts. Sometimes thats worth it, sometimes its not.

Exactly. I really get tired of people talking like expiring contracts are so valuable. They are only valuable if you have cheap assets that other teams want and they have an expensive asset that you want to take.

What did the Cavs give up for Jamison?

They had to agree to swallow the last 2 years of Jamison's deal. There was no way the Celtics were gonna do that on top of KG, Pierce, etc.

The Cavs had to go get Jamison - Anything it takes to keep the NBA money machine that is Lebron in Cleveland.

Right -- he's not an expiring contract. They used an expiring contract to get a 20pt scorer... not on an expiring contract.

The point is clear. They gave up nothing to get a very good NBA player who fit a clear need. All they had to do is pay him.

[xmuscularghandix]

I agree about the Patience part. Panic moves and impulsive trades leave you  with players like Vin Baker

Amen. It also makes you trade away "potential" for "established veterans" and you seem smart until your "potential" becomes an ALL-STAR. ALA Chauncey Billups & Joe Johnson.

Eddie House is upgraded by Nate Robinson, therefore our team is upgraded.

This team may have a year in mediocrity at one point, but this team can win this year if they play with fire like in 07-08. And they have pieces (and will have cap room) to once again be on top once the Big 3 are gone.

[Larry for 3]

we're going to be right back to where we were @ the end of the first A. Walker era------ good enough to maybe win a round & then get swept in round two, and that sucks or is going to suck, a
team with no hope of winning a title makes for a depressing reality----- i'd rather be horrible & take my lottery chances

[Who]

Big ups to Mr. October for finding the link explaining the non-Bird exception.

Currently have 7 players under contract for next season and are already over the cap.  So they have little choice but to try and contend with the same old team a year older.  Maybe they bring Ray back or Tony Allen but otherwise we are looking at alot of veteran minimum type of players.  This was the Chance for the C's to position themselves for the future.  Now they are looking at the New Big 3 ending the same way the original Big 3 did.

That was my mode of thought all through the season but I'm wavering on it now.

I think the Celtics should strongly consider spending their MLE on younger talent who can stick with the franchise after the Big Three. Even if that younger talent isn't the type of player, or position, that the Celtics need most. And even if that young talent isn't quite as good as a veteran player in the immediate future.

I'm not in love with the young wing talent available in free agency, and I'm not sure if we should blow our MLE was on another biggish man, with KG/Perk/Sheed/Baby already on payroll and an increasingly depressing 2-guard position.

Do you have anyone in mind?

Tyrus Thomas + Anthony Morrow

Mike Miller would be first choice if going for a veteran.

Agreed on Miller.

What do you think of Amir Johnson as a lower-cost fallback in the, IMHO, likely event that Tyrus Thomas signs with a team that offers him a starting role and Anthony Morrow signs elsewhere?

Yes, Amir Johnson is another player I'd be interested in. He'd be in that second tier after Thomas + Morrow.

I think Johnson would likely cost around $4 million per annum on a multi-year deal (three/four years).

[snively]

Big ups to Mr. October for finding the link explaining the non-Bird exception.

Currently have 7 players under contract for next season and are already over the cap.  So they have little choice but to try and contend with the same old team a year older.  Maybe they bring Ray back or Tony Allen but otherwise we are looking at alot of veteran minimum type of players.  This was the Chance for the C's to position themselves for the future.  Now they are looking at the New Big 3 ending the same way the original Big 3 did.

That was my mode of thought all through the season but I'm wavering on it now.

I think the Celtics should strongly consider spending their MLE on younger talent who can stick with the franchise after the Big Three. Even if that younger talent isn't the type of player, or position, that the Celtics need most. And even if that young talent isn't quite as good as a veteran player in the immediate future.

I'm not in love with the young wing talent available in free agency, and I'm not sure if we should blow our MLE was on another biggish man, with KG/Perk/Sheed/Baby already on payroll and an increasingly depressing 2-guard position.

Do you have anyone in mind?

Tyrus Thomas + Anthony Morrow

Mike Miller would be first choice if going for a veteran.

Mike Miller would be my top veteran choice too.
Ty Thomas would be cool if he could be had for the MLE... doubt it though.

Can anyone tell me more about Morrow?

He's a fantastic shooter with good size and decent mobility.  He doesn't have blow-by speed or elite finishing ability, but he really knows how to use pump-fakes to set himself up for nice little pull-ups and fadeaways. Haven't really seen enough of him to evaluate him defensively.

[ssspence]

Big ups to Mr. October for finding the link explaining the non-Bird exception.

Currently have 7 players under contract for next season and are already over the cap.  So they have little choice but to try and contend with the same old team a year older.  Maybe they bring Ray back or Tony Allen but otherwise we are looking at alot of veteran minimum type of players.  This was the Chance for the C's to position themselves for the future.  Now they are looking at the New Big 3 ending the same way the original Big 3 did.

That was my mode of thought all through the season but I'm wavering on it now.

I think the Celtics should strongly consider spending their MLE on younger talent who can stick with the franchise after the Big Three. Even if that younger talent isn't the type of player, or position, that the Celtics need most. And even if that young talent isn't quite as good as a veteran player in the immediate future.

I'm not in love with the young wing talent available in free agency, and I'm not sure if we should blow our MLE was on another biggish man, with KG/Perk/Sheed/Baby already on payroll and an increasingly depressing 2-guard position.

Do you have anyone in mind?

Tyrus Thomas + Anthony Morrow

Mike Miller would be first choice if going for a veteran.

Mike Miller would be my top veteran choice too.
Ty Thomas would be cool if he could be had for the MLE... doubt it though.

Can anyone tell me more about Morrow?

Congrats on 2K, bro.

[Who]

Big ups to Mr. October for finding the link explaining the non-Bird exception.

Currently have 7 players under contract for next season and are already over the cap.  So they have little choice but to try and contend with the same old team a year older.  Maybe they bring Ray back or Tony Allen but otherwise we are looking at alot of veteran minimum type of players.  This was the Chance for the C's to position themselves for the future.  Now they are looking at the New Big 3 ending the same way the original Big 3 did.

That was my mode of thought all through the season but I'm wavering on it now.

I think the Celtics should strongly consider spending their MLE on younger talent who can stick with the franchise after the Big Three. Even if that younger talent isn't the type of player, or position, that the Celtics need most. And even if that young talent isn't quite as good as a veteran player in the immediate future.

I'm not in love with the young wing talent available in free agency, and I'm not sure if we should blow our MLE was on another biggish man, with KG/Perk/Sheed/Baby already on payroll and an increasingly depressing 2-guard position.

Do you have anyone in mind?

Tyrus Thomas + Anthony Morrow

Mike Miller would be first choice if going for a veteran.

Mike Miller would be my top veteran choice too.
Ty Thomas would be cool if he could be had for the MLE... doubt it though.

Can anyone tell me more about Morrow?

He's a fantastic shooter with good size and decent mobility.  He doesn't have blow-by speed or elite finishing ability, but he really knows how to use pump-fakes to set himself up for nice little pull-ups and fadeaways. Haven't really seen enough of him to evaluate him defensively.

Anthony Morrow has a comparable impact on a game as Ray Allen does currently. Only with a better jump shot. A serviceable defender + good scorer + excellent shooter + excellent off the ball and with team offensive play (helping to create ball/player movement).

Morrow has solid potential (lack of explosive athleticism + ball handling ability + age limits his potential). He could improve from being a 13-15ppg threat to a 16-17ppg threat. His jump shot will still be magical. A good third or preferably fourth scoring option. His defense could go from serviceable to good. Anthony Morrow has the potential to be an elite role player to a notch or two below All-Star level.

For the MLE, that is very good value.

[Vermont Green]

i'd rather be horrible & take my lottery chances

Haven't we been there done that and didn't it kind of suck?

Our eggs are in KG's basket right next to his knee brace and they stay there for 2-1/2 more seasons.

[Mr October]

Big ups to Mr. October for finding the link explaining the non-Bird exception.

Currently have 7 players under contract for next season and are already over the cap.  So they have little choice but to try and contend with the same old team a year older.  Maybe they bring Ray back or Tony Allen but otherwise we are looking at alot of veteran minimum type of players.  This was the Chance for the C's to position themselves for the future.  Now they are looking at the New Big 3 ending the same way the original Big 3 did.

That was my mode of thought all through the season but I'm wavering on it now.

I think the Celtics should strongly consider spending their MLE on younger talent who can stick with the franchise after the Big Three. Even if that younger talent isn't the type of player, or position, that the Celtics need most. And even if that young talent isn't quite as good as a veteran player in the immediate future.

I'm not in love with the young wing talent available in free agency, and I'm not sure if we should blow our MLE was on another biggish man, with KG/Perk/Sheed/Baby already on payroll and an increasingly depressing 2-guard position.

Do you have anyone in mind?

Tyrus Thomas + Anthony Morrow

Mike Miller would be first choice if going for a veteran.

Mike Miller would be my top veteran choice too.
Ty Thomas would be cool if he could be had for the MLE... doubt it though.

Can anyone tell me more about Morrow?

He's a fantastic shooter with good size and decent mobility.  He doesn't have blow-by speed or elite finishing ability, but he really knows how to use pump-fakes to set himself up for nice little pull-ups and fadeaways. Haven't really seen enough of him to evaluate him defensively.

Anthony Morrow has a comparable impact on a game as Ray Allen does currently. Only with a better jump shot. A serviceable defender + good scorer + excellent shooter + excellent off the ball and with team offensive play (helping to create ball/player movement).

Morrow has solid potential (lack of explosive athleticism + ball handling ability + age limits his potential). He could improve from being a 13-15ppg threat to a 16-17ppg threat. His jump shot will still be magical. A good third or preferably fourth scoring option. His defense could go from serviceable to good. Anthony Morrow has the potential to be an elite role player to a notch or two below All-Star level.

For the MLE, that is very good value.

Indeed, that sounds like a great signing for the MLE.
TPs to Who and Snively for the info, and a TP to ssspence for a little 2K love.

Almost game time.... GO CELTICS!

[BballTim]

Our bench for next year sucks right now.

  Our starting lineup in 2025 is horrible right now as well.

Well, we have a lot of cap space then. We'll be well over the cap next summer.

  Well, if you're able to authoritatively predict how much cap room we'll have in 15 years then I guess I'll have to take your word for next year's poor bench.

Considering your glib remarks about... whatever you're talking about.... I'm assuming you don't plan to add anything interesting about Boston's thin crew for next year and financial constraints.

  Other than we had no cap room last year and still signed some players? They'll have Sheed and Baby. They can sign Nate and TA without using the MLE. I don't see the crisis.

Sure. Guess the status quo will do.

  Are you serious? You go from saying our bench will suck next year to complaining about the status quo? Pick a side and stick with it.

You called the bench good, not me. Our bench has been better the last 3,4 games. It's been wildly inconsistent otherwise. Meanwhile, the starters need them more and more.

The kool-aid you drink is your problem, not mine.

Meanwhile, when you have a meaningful plan to upgrade this team over the summer, I'm all ears.

 I never called our bench good. I never called our bench bad. I just made light of your nonsensical comment about the fact that, as of February 18th, our bench for the 2010-2011 season sucks. Clearly my explaining that we won't necessarily have a bad bench because we could sign most of the players we have now and still have the MLE makes me a kool-aid drinker. Heaven forbid I take a fairly objective look at the team when I could be wringing my hands because KG and Paul will never be even slightly healthier than they are now.