Is Cleveland Bluffing??

[heyvik]

Conspiracy theory.
Is it me or does every day seem to bring up a new name for Cleveland? First it was definately Jamison, then it was Murphy, now Amare, just heard that it could be Maggette.
What is it with these guys? Could it be that they are 'attempting' to put a deal in place but could be bluffing, so that NO ONE gets any of these guys? They could be blocking the HEAT from getting Amare? Boston from getting Jamison? I don't know what do you think?



Kinda reminds me of a spoiled kid with a lot of money going into a candy store. " I want this, and this, and this and this........" 1 hour later, the kid ends up leaving the store with nothing.

[StartOrien]

I don't know if the Cleveland front office is bluffing or just completely incompetent. I'm dying to see them end up sitting on their hands again because they don't want to "mess with the chemistry" and waste another hand full of expiring contracts.

[Chris]

I think Cleveland is kicking the tires on a lot of guys, but I don't think they are that interested in taking on a potentially bad contract (Jamison), or giving up too much value (Hickson).  They are hoping they can steal someone, but I think it has been overstated how aggressive they have been.  My guess is they do something smaller, or stand pat.

[StartOrien]

BTW, I know my previous statement may come off harsh but I think having Lebron has helped Danny Ferry avoid the critique he well deserves. In my opinion he has continously done a pathetic job surrounding Lebron with the talent, and more importantly, the type of players he deserves.

[MMacOH]

BTW, I know my previous statement may come off harsh but I think having Lebron has helped Danny Ferry avoid the critique he well deserves. In my opinion he has continously done a pathetic job surrounding Lebron with the talent, and more importantly, the type of players he deserves.

Where is your justifcation for this?  Ferry had one bad year (his first) and has since done nothing but improve the Cavs.  He turned Donyell Marshall, Larry Hughes and some other dead weight into Delonte West, Big Ben, Wally and Joe Smith.  He turned Joe Smith into Mo Williams.  He turned Big Ben into Shaq (by adding the waste of talent Sasha Pavlovic). 

He didn't 'sit on his hands' last year, but it would have been nice to get something for Wally.  PHX turned down the Shaq trade that Cleveland offered (they wanted Hickson) and then Ferry got him for Sasha Pavlovic and Ben Wallace. It would have been nice to get something for Wally, but Ferry only makes moves that he sees as a clear win.
 

[sk7326]

Cleveland is calling lots of teams - that's all.  Since every minute detail has to be reported in the media, it looks like they are closer than they are.  My guess is that none of this is bluffing, but they are doing a ton of due diligence.  It's like Danny "shopping Ray Allen".  OF COURSE he's shopping Ray!  It's a huge expiring deal, you might as well see what it can get you.

The weird thing about trade season this year is that the two teams you'd expect to be parking lots for expiring deals (Memphis and Oklahoma City) are BOTH playoff contenders - so they might actually not be in the position to just take anybody.

[Chris]

BTW, I know my previous statement may come off harsh but I think having Lebron has helped Danny Ferry avoid the critique he well deserves. In my opinion he has continously done a pathetic job surrounding Lebron with the talent, and more importantly, the type of players he deserves.

Where is your justifcation for this?  Ferry had one bad year (his first) and has since done nothing but improve the Cavs.  He turned Donyell Marshall, Larry Hughes and some other dead weight into Delonte West, Big Ben, Wally and Joe Smith.  He turned Joe Smith into Mo Williams.  He turned Big Ben into Shaq (by adding the waste of talent Sasha Pavlovic). 

He didn't 'sit on his hands' last year, but it would have been nice to get something for Wally.  PHX turned down the Shaq trade that Cleveland offered (they wanted Hickson) and then Ferry got him for Sasha Pavlovic and Ben Wallace. It would have been nice to get something for Wally, but Ferry only makes moves that he sees as a clear win.
 

Well, one could argue, his unwillingness to include Hickson last year for Shaq cost them a championship.  If they had Shaq, they wouldn't have had to double on Howard all series, and likely beat the Magic, and then I think they roll over the Lakers.

But overall, I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.  Ferry has certainly not been perfect, and he has made some questionable moves (and non-moves), but he has also made some moves to put decent talent around Lebron, including a couple major steals (was he the one who fleeced the Magic for Andy?).  He is a middle of the road GM, and his legacy will probably not be written until after this season, when we see what he does to either keep Lebron, or rebuild after him.

[Fafnir]

BTW, I know my previous statement may come off harsh but I think having Lebron has helped Danny Ferry avoid the critique he well deserves. In my opinion he has continously done a pathetic job surrounding Lebron with the talent, and more importantly, the type of players he deserves.

Where is your justifcation for this?  Ferry had one bad year (his first) and has since done nothing but improve the Cavs.  He turned Donyell Marshall, Larry Hughes and some other dead weight into Delonte West, Big Ben, Wally and Joe Smith.  He turned Joe Smith into Mo Williams.  He turned Big Ben into Shaq (by adding the waste of talent Sasha Pavlovic). 

He didn't 'sit on his hands' last year, but it would have been nice to get something for Wally.  PHX turned down the Shaq trade that Cleveland offered (they wanted Hickson) and then Ferry got him for Sasha Pavlovic and Ben Wallace. It would have been nice to get something for Wally, but Ferry only makes moves that he sees as a clear win.
 

I think the most legitimate criticism of Ferry is that he's always focused way too hard on the short term. His one bad year of signings has snowballed into his taking on of more and more money for smallish talent upgrades.

LeBron is by far the best player in the league and its easy to try to win every year with him, but I feel he's limited the long term potential of the team by never acquiring a true top teir running mate for LeBron.

[MMacOH]

Howard really wasn't the issue last year wth Orlando.  It was the fact that Rshard and Hedu were both taller than 6' 10" and the Cavs had to use either Delonte or Ben Wallace to guard them at some time in the game which was a huge match up issue with the Cavs.  They tried having Lebron sag off of Rafer and double and Rafer killed them with his shooting (yes, you read that right, I was a shocked as anyone that Rafer could shoot).  If they moved Hickson (it was Hickson and Wally instead of Big Ben) the Cavs would have been on the books for Shaq and Big Ben this year which would have been around 35 million dollars.  That would have been a very dumb move on Ferry's part.

Ferry has been very focused on the short term but you can blame Lebron for that. Short term contracts rom your superstar will do that.  Ferry is trying to win a championship before Lebron can try and leave.

[Chris]

Howard really wasn't the issue last year wth Orlando.  It was the fact that Rshard and Hedu were both taller than 6' 10" and the Cavs had to use either Delonte or Ben Wallace to guard them at some time in the game which was a huge match up issue with the Cavs.  They tried having Lebron sag off of Rafer and double and Rafer killed them with his shooting (yes, you read that right, I was a shocked as anyone that Rafer could shoot).  If they moved Hickson (it was Hickson and Wally instead of Big Ben) the Cavs would have been on the books for Shaq and Big Ben this year which would have been around 35 million dollars.  That would have been a very dumb move on Ferry's part.

Ferry has been very focused on the short term but you can blame Lebron for that. Short term contracts rom your superstar will do that.  Ferry is trying to win a championship before Lebron can try and leave.

See, I would have agreed with you, if I hadn't seen the C's shut down the Magic's perimeter shooting for long stretches by single-covering Howard, and not leaving the shooters wide open.  Lewis and Hedo were not shooting over guys, they were shooting WIDE OPEN 3's, because they were doubling in the post, leaving shooters wide open.  That is how the Magic win.  With Shaq, that doesn't happen. 

[MMacOH]

Howard really wasn't the issue last year wth Orlando.  It was the fact that Rshard and Hedu were both taller than 6' 10" and the Cavs had to use either Delonte or Ben Wallace to guard them at some time in the game which was a huge match up issue with the Cavs.  They tried having Lebron sag off of Rafer and double and Rafer killed them with his shooting (yes, you read that right, I was a shocked as anyone that Rafer could shoot).  If they moved Hickson (it was Hickson and Wally instead of Big Ben) the Cavs would have been on the books for Shaq and Big Ben this year which would have been around 35 million dollars.  That would have been a very dumb move on Ferry's part.

Ferry has been very focused on the short term but you can blame Lebron for that. Short term contracts rom your superstar will do that.  Ferry is trying to win a championship before Lebron can try and leave.

See, I would have agreed with you, if I hadn't seen the C's shut down the Magic's perimeter shooting for long stretches by single-covering Howard, and not leaving the shooters wide open.  Lewis and Hedo were not shooting over guys, they were shooting WIDE OPEN 3's, because they were doubling in the post, leaving shooters wide open.  That is how the Magic win.  With Shaq, that doesn't happen. 

Except Hedu was just shooting over Delonte.  Trading for Shaq last year would have killed the Cavs this year.  They would have been way over the salary cap (about 15 million more than they are now), and been relying on meaningul minutes from Ben Wallace.  Ferry wants the Cavs to look like they have potential going into the future as well as right now.  That is what will keep Lebron in Cleveland

[sk7326]

Howard really wasn't the issue last year wth Orlando.  It was the fact that Rshard and Hedu were both taller than 6' 10" and the Cavs had to use either Delonte or Ben Wallace to guard them at some time in the game which was a huge match up issue with the Cavs.  They tried having Lebron sag off of Rafer and double and Rafer killed them with his shooting (yes, you read that right, I was a shocked as anyone that Rafer could shoot).  If they moved Hickson (it was Hickson and Wally instead of Big Ben) the Cavs would have been on the books for Shaq and Big Ben this year which would have been around 35 million dollars.  That would have been a very dumb move on Ferry's part.

Ferry has been very focused on the short term but you can blame Lebron for that. Short term contracts rom your superstar will do that.  Ferry is trying to win a championship before Lebron can try and leave.

Sideshow was too small for Howard, and Ingauskas was a fossil.  Perkins has shown the best way to guard Howard is to play behind him and beat him with strength.  The Cavs had to cover for that all series, and it allowed Orlando to torch them from downtown.  It also was why the Magic had great success against them in the regular season.  Really everything Shaq does this season is moot - he is there specifically because he can play Dwight Howard honestly and allow the Cavs a fighting chance to keep the Magic from making nearly half their threes. 

The matchup problems with Lewis and Turkoglu where there too, but the Howard one precipitated the scrambling on the others.  Howard could not be managed one on one without cheating.  Shaq's work against Howard late in the win last week showed what could happen. 

Either way the Cavs could use a stretch 4 still - but they are much better positioned to knock off Orlando this year - and they were good enough to beat LA already.

[IBLEEDGREEN30]

if the cavs do end up getting amare, the celts have to make a trade unless the chemistry changes immediately and the celtics have fresh young legs again at the start of the second half of the season.

hopefully everything clicks and they get it together. i cant wait.

[Ersatz]

I think the most legitimate criticism of Ferry is that he's always focused way too hard on the short term.

It's hard to blame him for this. The specter of losing LeBron or even having it appear that LeBron is unhappy has compelled him to make all of these little moves that preclude him making a big move that could give LeBron a superstar partner. For years, Ferry has had to balance the short-term and the medium-term. Now he's all about the short-term, which means acquiring Amare, which (I think) would kill his team in the long-term.

LeBron is by far the best player in the league

He is, of course. But doesn't he deserve some of the blame here? In his first three years, the Cavs didn't even make the playoffs in the miserable EC. Last year, he was great against the Magic, but he needs to be held at least partially responsible for how poorly his teammates played last year. Transcendent superstars don't let their teams fail so miserable as his team did last year. Is this year going to be any different?

[Ersatz]

if the cavs do end up getting amare, the celts have to make a trade unless the chemistry changes immediately and the celtics have fresh young legs again at the start of the second half of the season.

Disagree. It's all speculation of course, but I'd say Stoudemire makes the Cavs worse. The guy cannot play defense, and the Cavs start with defense. Plus, who's to say that without Nash giving him easy looks he's really even much of an offensive force.