Author Topic: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens  (Read 6963 times)

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Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« on: February 12, 2010, 04:54:22 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Why for the Cs ~

Many reasons. The one that stands out: Deng as a major defensive upgrade when you consider him taking turns with Pierce & Daniels (with a little Tony Allen sprinkled in) against the top opposing players (Lebron, Lewis, Johnson, Kobe, etc). Leaving aside Ray’s fine performance on Kobe, Pierce needs the defensive wing help – emotionally and physically. The Cs are immediately become the deepest team in basketball, which should help make up for the nagging injuries during the stretch run. Deng’s young – a nice long-term addition to go with Rondo and Perk into the next generation.

The Cs payroll jumps to ~$81.5 for 9 players in 2010, before their two draft picks and any signings IF Salmons stays in his deal. If he opts out – thanks, nice knowing you. Add in their two draft picks and it’s likely around $83mil for 11 players before FA signings but without many holes. The Cs can fill out the bench signing Daniels or TA (not likely) or Pargo or House or whoever else with some or all of the MLE or vet min deals, and maintain their current (high) payroll for another year while staying in / extending the championship hunt. If PP is willing to ‘opt out’ in order to structure a friendly agreement with less next year but more total years, it’s a win-win that helps reduce ownership’s tax burden.

Why for the Bulls ~

Cap room. They really want to move salary. As Chad Ford of ESPN recently put it:

"If they can trade Hinrich and/or John Salmons for expiring contracts, they can make a pitch to both LeBron James and Chris Bosh this summer. Can you imagine a team with James, Bosh, Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah? I guarantee you John Paxson can, and if Bosh isn’t traded before the deadline, the Bulls appear to have a chance make it happen."

First off, they can’t move Hinrich. No one is taking $17mil of him for the next two years to get just… him. Jerry Buss ain’t doing it when he thinks they can win it all with what they have and NOT pay an additional $9mil in luxury tax next year. And I don’t think Ty Thomas makes him worth it. So instead they’re forced to move Deng. They clear $17mil more cap space for the summer of 2010, bringing their total salary to $20mil for Rose, Hinrich, Noah, Taj Gibson and James Johnson (assuming they ditch Thomas) on a projected cap of $52-55mil. They immediately become the prime destination for the FA class of 2010 considering their cap space, the team core and the city / tradition. They could then potentially sign 2 max FAs (or very close to it), or re-sign Ray Allen then sign one max FA and have a little left over for role players, or sign-and-trade Ray for a very good supporting player then sign a max FA. Lots of options.

======

Pretty scary – not sure I want to help the Bulls do it, but our window is short as it stands currently. It’s all about Banner 18, though I think Deng would be a great complimentary piece now and into the future. By all accounts he’s a model citizen and a hard worker who will fit in well – one of my biggest concerns about trading Ray. Shooting and spacing does become a bit of an issue, especially considering much of the offense is structured for Ray. Ray’s plays can be run for Eddie, but it’s obviously not the same, and will he still be in the rotation? He handled demotion well 2 years ago and responded in the playoffs when needed. Salmons can shoot, but he’s had a disappointing year and he’s not an off-the-pick catch-and-shoot guy. He played well after being traded last year. Deng has a propensity for long 2s – can he shoot the 3? Pargo’s a nice little addition – lord knows the 2nd unit could use some instant offense at the 1. You could even make it Deng and Hinrich (no Pargo), though the financial implications get pretty scary for ownership.

There’s risk here, but it’s tempting and probably more sensible than a deal for Iguodala and Delambert (Sixers trading in the division? LOTS of salary next year), or Martin and Nocioni or Garcia (Martin’s more injury prone than Deng, and the second contract is awful). Monta Ellis is a weird fit with Rondo, and I don’t get the sense he gives a hoot. I don’t see much else out there. I don’t see a good fit with the Mavs. We could piece together some other expirings (probably Scal, either TA or Eddie, and Giddens) for Maggette, but he’s a knucklehead with blinders on and about 15 years left on his deal (hat tip — Chris Mullen), and I’m not sure our depth can take the hit.

I’m comfortable standing pat with Ray and maybe looking for a back-up PG before or after the deadline. But if we are going to trade Ray, I think this is the deal.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2010, 05:05:32 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Looks like a good deal to me. I like Deng a lot.

I still think the C's ride things out with Ray. But, if this deal went down, i wouldn't complain.  :)

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 05:07:13 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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We've talked about this a bunch in other threads.   Of all the imaginary unlikely "dream" trades (KMart, Iggy, Ellis, etc), the idea of bringing in Deng was my favorite.   Bulls could free up a ton of cap room if they dumped Deng and Hinrich for expiring contracts.   Bill Simmons had the idea on his twitter last week as well (with the Bulls freeing up enough cap room to go after two major free agents and building a super team)...

But we've heard zero suggestion that the Bulls were contemplating trading Deng at all... The guy is 24 and a stud.  NOt happening.

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 05:09:48 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I think Chicago should trade Deng but I don't think they will.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 05:24:10 PM »

Online Who

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I'm not sure that Boston should take on further long term contracts if they agree to take Deng off the Bulls' hands.

Maybe Tyrus Thomas instead of Hinrich or Salmons.

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2010, 05:33:56 PM »

Offline JIMTONIK

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I hate every potential deal with Chicago.
They can only give us garbage,or bench players.
hinrich is the only OK player,but he's not averaging good numbers, his contract is about 10M$, and I don't see him as a starter in a contender.
But the bad thing is that they will free more space for next year and became a serious contender.
"Prima mi faccio, poi vi dico"

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2010, 05:36:34 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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If the Bulls decide to trade their versatile 24 year old fringe star... they are going to get a heck of a lot more than just pure cap relief.  I think people are underrating how good Deng is.  No way does Chicago just give him away.   

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2010, 05:53:02 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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if they want cap relief that bad... just offer them this:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjsvpls

But I still think the Bulls could get a lot more talent in return for Deng. 

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2010, 06:03:36 PM »

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If the Bulls decide to trade their versatile 24 year old fringe star... they are going to get a heck of a lot more than just pure cap relief.  I think people are underrating how good Deng is.  No way does Chicago just give him away.   
I don't think Chicago can upgrade Deng talent wise in a trade. Their best options will either to be to keep Deng or to create cap space.

And I fully expect the Bulls to keep Deng.

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2010, 06:10:19 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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We've talked about this a bunch in other threads.   Of all the imaginary unlikely "dream" trades (KMart, Iggy, Ellis, etc), the idea of bringing in Deng was my favorite.   Bulls could free up a ton of cap room if they dumped Deng and Hinrich for expiring contracts.   Bill Simmons had the idea on his twitter last week as well (with the Bulls freeing up enough cap room to go after two major free agents and building a super team)...

But we've heard zero suggestion that the Bulls were contemplating trading Deng at all... The guy is 24 and a stud.  NOt happening.

here's one ripple out of chicago
 http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64643/20100212/bulls_could_unload_deng_for_more_cap_space/

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2010, 06:10:36 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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I hate every potential deal with Chicago.
They can only give us garbage,or bench players.
hinrich is the only OK player,but he's not averaging good numbers, his contract is about 10M$, and I don't see him as a starter in a contender.
But the bad thing is that they will free more space for next year and became a serious contender.

deng is a beast

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2010, 06:33:56 PM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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To say I'd be pleased with the possibility of getting Deng/Hinrich/Thomas would be an understatement. I'd cream myself if we could steal 2-3 of those guys.

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2010, 11:06:47 AM »

Offline ssspence

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if they want cap relief that bad... just offer them this:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjsvpls

But I still think the Bulls could get a lot more talent in return for Deng. 

I think you're missing the point. The only reason they do the deal is for cap space. Sure, they'll want picks, but they wouldn't want players. They wouldn't want young talent for Deng -- he is young talent. They would move him in order to make sure they can dump Hinrich, and therefore clear every dollar of cap space possible and therefore become the premiere FA destination with a great city, premiere franchise, and three really really good young players at desirable positions.

Meanwhile, it has been reported that they're gauging Deng's value. This is because they've discovered they cannot dump Hinrich on his own, and offering Thomas with him isn't enough to get teams to bite. So they do this deal, then they trade Thomas for an expiring contract and a 1st. 
Mike

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Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2010, 11:29:52 AM »

Offline Mencius

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To say I'd be pleased with the possibility of getting Deng/Hinrich/Thomas would be an understatement. I'd cream myself if we could steal 2-3 of those guys.

Deng/Hinrich/Thomas for Ray/Scal/JR works in trade checker.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygm56gn

That would be the heist of the century.  I'd throw in two firsts to get that done.

Chicago seems like the most logical trade partner at this point.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 11:35:03 AM by Mencius »

Re: Idea: Deng, Salmons or Hinrich & Pargo for Ray Allen & Giddens
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2010, 11:45:37 AM »

Offline ssspence

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To say I'd be pleased with the possibility of getting Deng/Hinrich/Thomas would be an understatement. I'd cream myself if we could steal 2-3 of those guys.

Deng/Hinrich/Thomas for Ray/Scal/JR works in trade checker.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygm56gn

That would be the heist of the century.  I'd throw in two firsts to get that done.

Chicago seems like the most logical trade partner at this point.

There appears to be a great deal of interest in Thomas, provided you don't need to take a contract to get him. So I would imagine the Bulls would split him up from Deng in any trade. They'll certainly get better value that way.
Mike

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