Author Topic: Portland, Really Screwed up. Again.  (Read 9046 times)

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Re: Portland, Really Screwed up. Again.
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2010, 02:25:32 PM »

Online Moranis

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Oden was the best freshman center in college basketball in at least 25 years.  He was a shutdown defensive center and superb rebounder and contrary to popular belief was a credible scorer with decent post moves (he was even respectable at the line and did so using his off hand for much of the time).  He had a wrist injury at the end of high school, which was fully healed by the time he went into the draft.  That was his only injury.  He had absolutely no problems with his feet until after the draft.  Now some will say they predicted he would get injured because he was a big man, but not all big men get injured (see Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, etc.).  Injuries can never be predicted out of the blue.  Yeah it sucks for Portland, but this isn't a bowie thing, because bowie already had some injuries, Oden did not.
  Yeah, was not injured, at the time he was drafted, because he was not playing basketball at the time. Couldn't stay healthy in High School, 1 year of college, and certainly not in the Pros. He has a leg that's one and one quarter of an inch longer than the other. I didn't study too muck anatomy, but would you buy a car with a crooked axle. Me niether.
He wasn't injured because he wasn't injured (he also wasn't injured in high school until the very end with the wrist, but it didn't keep him out of any games, not sure where you got that from).  Portland did a number of tests on both his knees and he didn't have any problems at all.  He was healthy.  His wrist was healed and he had no other ailments.  He got hurt in summer league and had microfracture, it happens.  Now he has a weak spot that will follow him forever, he didn't when he was drafted.
And  what about his leg length difference I've never heard about anyone having that that wouldn't scare you?
lots of people have differences in the length of their legs.  If he does what he is supposed to do it shouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Portland, Really Screwed up. Again.
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2010, 04:38:03 PM »

Offline MaineBleedsGreen

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This monday morning quarter back, hindsight is 20/20 argument against people who are saying this was a bad pick is BS. There were people, Danny and myself included, who would have taken KD over GO back at draft time, and that had nothing to do with the injuries Oden would suffer over his first 3 years in the league. Lets look at some stats.

KD
Season      GP   MPG   PPG            FG%   3FG%   FT%          APG   RPG           BPG   SPG
2006-07   35   35.9   25.8   47.3   40.4   81.6   1.3   11.1   1.9   1.9

GO

Season           GP   MPG   PPG           FG%          3FG% FT%          APG   RPG       BPG SPG
2006-07   32   28.9   15.7   61.6   0.0     62.8           0.7   9.6            3.3  0.6

I still say that's not an easy choice.

Yeah you can't really blame them.  No body expected Durant to have the strength to be this good in the NBA.  His rebounding was good in college because he was bigger then everyone else ...  Also it's much easier to find a franchise swing then a franchise big man.  So sometimes you take the risk. 

I'm not picking on the poster above, but they bring up two of the main arguments against durant.

1) "he was only a good rebounder because of his size in college", this one is easy ... um, how big is Oden? Are you really going to hold Durant's size against him, and say that none of that was skill? Doesn't size translate? don't they say you "can't teach size" I don't think you should hold his 6' 10" frame against him. Also, he did out-rebound the great Greg Oden on their frosh seasons by 1.5rpg... not too shabby for someone who only had "size" on his side.

2) "You always take the franchise big man over the franchise swing man", this is just ridiculous and it sounds asinine when either side uses this argument. Reminds me of some good ol' boys club, "women should be in the kitchen" type of rhetoric that's passed down by people who don't take the time to analyze the situation and just repeat the bs grand pappy told them in front of the fire over a few whiskeys ... theres examples that support both sides of this argument for swing players or big men, i think the safe thing to say in all of those situations is, it's best to take the better player regardless of position, I think if at the end of the day a GM makes his decision using this logic, they probably shouldn't be a GM in todays modern game.

Oden was the best freshman center in college basketball in at least 25 years.  He was a shutdown defensive center and superb rebounder and contrary to popular belief was a credible scorer with decent post moves (he was even respectable at the line and did so using his off hand for much of the time). 

This is all true. 16ppg 62%FG all with an injured wrist on his good hand. That's some phenomenal stuff offensively. Defensively he was a beast 7' 280lb-er who blocked 3.3 blocks per game and probably altered another 10. It's undeniable the impact he had. He looked incredible and his Frosh season statistics match up against sure fire HOFers.

However, Durant was a stud offensively He was giving you 26 ppg on 47% FG 40% 3PFG and 82% from the line. Standing 6'10" and being an athletic stud nearly guaranteed that these numbers would carry over into the nba once he caught up to the speed of the defenders. No one can challenge KD's shot. Also, his defense (especially help defense) is pretty underrated. Guy averaged 2 spg and 2bpg.

So looking at the college stats of these two players I'd say that there is a fairly strong argument for both. My opinion at the time was KD all the way. This was mostly from watching him play. While Greg Oden was a physical freak, KD was a 7 foot ballerina.  The way he moved on the court, even in college, was mesmerizing. Like another poster said, I hadn't seen a player look that smooth in a dominating way since carmelo anthony. Right now he is absolutely my favorite player to watch in the NBA. I bought league pass for two reasons, celtics, and OKC baby!

Even looking in "hind-sight" doesn't necessarily clear the picture up. Obviously health, is a major issue, but that is probably the only thing separating the two this year. If you are able to take health issues out of the argument, you could say, as a center, GO was going to have a harder time adjusting to the league anyway, so maybe his impact would be as instantaneous as Durants, but he HAS improved each season he's been in the league, in-spite of being out his first full year.

What's more, KD has a PER of 25.36 ranking him #6 on the season, while GO had a PER of 23.43 good for 8th on the year, before he got hurt.

Lets look at some pro #'s from this year.

KD
MPG   PPG            FG%   3FG%   FT%          APG   RPG           BPG   SPG
39.8        29.7         48.5       38           88          3        7.5         1      1.4

GO
MPG   PPG            FG%   3FG%   FT%          APG   RPG           BPG   SPG
24            11            60           N/A         77          1       8.5          2.3   .4

KD is playing on a team where he is the center piece. I'll be it, OKC is playing great this year, and Durant is no longer the only baller on the team, but he still consistently gets to touch the ball. He is also playing about 15 mpg more then Oden this year (mostly because Oden is averaging 4 fouls in those 24 minutes, which would equal 6 PF per 36 on the season) so his statistics are going to be a bit more inflated. I think looking at their per 36 stats gives a more equal picture of the two players, where oden is putting up a more Andrew Bogut like statline, without being a center piece (like Bogut).

KD   per 36
PPG            FG%   3FG%   FT%          APG   RPG           BPG   SPG
27             49            38          88          2.6    6.7          .8   1.3

OG per 36
PPG            FG%   3FG%   FT%          APG   RPG           BPG   SPG
17             60            N/A       77          1.4    13          3.4    .6

So all in all I think this is a pretty interesting comparison to make. My personal bias will always lay with Durant, but I don't think either argument is as clear cut as people make it seem. Could Durant find himself on teams that never quite have the pieces to get it done. Will his defense raise to the next level? Is he enough of a leader?

Will Oden get healthy? And if so doesn't he give you that Bogut/Kaman type force down low that could anchor any playoff team. How will his confidence recover from these injuries? are they freak or are they going to be chronic?

Neither player has reached their potential, I think it will be more fun to see where they go in their careers from here, rather then continually looking at where they've been.

Re: Portland, Really Screwed up. Again.
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2010, 04:50:03 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Portland botched it. That's true. They went need over talent, just like with Jordan.

But just like with Jordan/Bowie, Oden was a once in a lifetime prospect. I'm not going to fault them for it now, and I never faulted them for Bowie. You can't predict injuries, and if you have a chance for a franchise center, you take it.

What is skinny little dwight howard (well he wasn't skinny as a rookie, but he wasn't huge either) had been injury prone? would people be faulting Orlando for taking Ben Gordon, or Igouadala? The whole concept is kind of silly Greg Oden had as good a pedigree as you get. 

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Portland, Really Screwed up. Again.
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2010, 06:16:02 PM »

Offline slamdunk

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The thing is...how many GMs would have the guts to take Durant over Oden, even if they felt Durant was better?

Re: Portland, Really Screwed up. Again.
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2010, 12:01:21 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Portland had two 'once every 10 years' prospects on their hands. They already had Brandon Roy, a franchise caliber scorer. They already had LaMarcus Aldridge, a top tier power forward prospect. They already had Martell Webster and Travis Outlaw, both looking like they were starting caliber forward prospects. They didn't have a point guard and they didn't have a center. I don't think it was about guts.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Portland, Really Screwed up. Again.
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2010, 06:00:04 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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I agree with KGLiving on this one. Oden was a great talent at a tough position to fill but Durant is special in another way. The same way that LeBron is more special than Melo or Kobe more special than Vince Carter, Russell more special than Chamberlain, Bird more special than Doctor J, KG more special than Malone.

It's being able to see what';s inside the player as a GM I think. It's more than the numbers they produce or just the position they play.

Didn't Ainge want to take Durant as well?   

Re: Portland, Really Screwed up. Again.
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2010, 06:08:05 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Is is just me, or didn't Portland completely makeover their team from Jailblazers to a respectable team within only a few years, and did it primarily through the draft at that?  They did the nearly impossible, right?

I don't get this thread.

Re: Portland, Really Screwed up. Again.
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2010, 06:17:10 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Maine Bleed Green, a thousand TP's to you my friend. Thank You for taking the points that I agree with and Multiplying them by 100 . I'll give you a Tp everytime I see your name. U tha Man.