Ray gone last game of old Celtics wednesday?

[crownsy]

Nobody's scapegoating Ray? Well then, let me be the first.  I think it's pretty clear that of all the problems the Cs have had lately, the poor play of Ray Allen has been the most glaring.  It's not his shooting that I'm worried about.  As a matter of fact, I feel that if he has a saving grace, it is that he can still shoot the basketball better than just about anybody else in the world.  

Well, far be it from me to derail the blame train, but i think the fact that my brothers basketball team rebounds as well as the current boston celtics has alot more to do with why we're losing than ray allen alone.

Tough to beat a team when you give them a ton of easy buckets a game due to offensive rebounds, and go one and done on the other end because you get zero boards.

[Fafnir]

Celtics18, you say Ray has a turnover problem.

Then why does he turn it over less than any other starter? There are issues with Ray's game this year, but turnovers isn't one of them.

[Birdbrain]

I can understand wanting to trade Ray to find some younger talent, improve the team... what I don't understand is how many people seem to just want Ray out of here. Even though he hasn't been accurate from 3-point land, you people do realize that overall he's shooting above his career average right?

People want a scapegoat for this team's struggles. Its easier to say trade Ray and fix it, than acknowledge that KG/Pierce have also declined and that's as much of a problem.

(House's struggles have also been a big issue)

Some of it that as well but, those guys do other things where as Ray is 1 trick pony who's 1 trick is sporadic at best and his defense is the main issue not offense.

House has been more than adequate in his role and plays such a limited role that to drag him into the discussion adds nothing, IMO.

[Birdbrain]

I can understand wanting to trade Ray to find some younger talent, improve the team... what I don't understand is how many people seem to just want Ray out of here. Even though he hasn't been accurate from 3-point land, you people do realize that overall he's shooting above his career average right?

People want a scapegoat for this team's struggles. Its easier to say trade Ray and fix it, than acknowledge that KG/Pierce have also declined and that's as much of a problem.

(House's struggles have also been a big issue)

I think that's patently unfair. There are many rational people entertaining Allen trade ideas who acknowledge that ALL of the big 3 have declined.

There sure are, however there are also plenty of people who think Ray Allen is "killing the team'. Especially on the defensive end, but also with his shooting. That's not the reality of the C's situation.

I'm one of those and yes it's been horrid.  But I think the VTs overall point is closer to being the truth than the scape goaters comment.

[Fafnir]

I can understand wanting to trade Ray to find some younger talent, improve the team... what I don't understand is how many people seem to just want Ray out of here. Even though he hasn't been accurate from 3-point land, you people do realize that overall he's shooting above his career average right?

People want a scapegoat for this team's struggles. Its easier to say trade Ray and fix it, than acknowledge that KG/Pierce have also declined and that's as much of a problem.

(House's struggles have also been a big issue)

Some of it that as well but, those guys do other things where as Ray is 1 trick pony who's 1 trick is sporadic at best and his defense is the main issue not offense.

House has been more than adequate in his role and plays such a limited role that to drag him into the discussion adds nothing, IMO.

I brought KG/Pierce/House into the discussion because all three are performing below what they did last year.

It is hard to discuss scapegoating Ray without giving my opinion on why the C's are struggling.

[Birdbrain]

Nobody's scapegoating Ray? Well then, let me be the first.  I think it's pretty clear that of all the problems the Cs have had lately, the poor play of Ray Allen has been the most glaring.  It's not his shooting that I'm worried about.  As a matter of fact, I feel that if he has a saving grace, it is that he can still shoot the basketball better than just about anybody else in the world.  

Well, far be it from me to derail the blame train, but i think the fact that my brothers basketball team rebounds as well as the current boston celtics has alot more to do with why we're losing than ray allen alone.

Tough to beat a team when you give them a ton of easy buckets a game due to offensive rebounds, and go one and done on the other end because you get zero boards.

Sure there a myriad of issues but, there is 1 really big expiring contract that could help remedy some of them.  Also the low amount of offensive rebounds has more to do with the fact that Doc wants ' everyone back ' and they shoot 50% as a team.

[Tough Juice]

Ray has hit the biggest shots in the big 3 era, and should stay.

How does this matter? We're talking about winning championships, and not being loyal to good players that have helped us in the past.

so take Paul Pierce and trade him, yeah right

/edit: don't force the profanity filters to step in please

[RAcker]

Here's the most recent characterization:

According to NBA sources, Ainge is not shopping Allen and he told his veteran guard that much in a conversation last week.

But those same sources said Ainge is listening to offers on Allen, whose play has declined this season and whose contract will become increasingly enticing in the next eight days. . . .

. . . According to the sources, Ainge is not eager to move Allen and would do so only if he could get a proven scorer with a manageable contract who is considerably younger.

Link.

That is pretty much in line with what most posters think.

Exactly and it's purely wild speculation to assume that Ainge is thinking anywhere outside of this when it comes to Ray.

[crownsy]

Nobody's scapegoating Ray? Well then, let me be the first.  I think it's pretty clear that of all the problems the Cs have had lately, the poor play of Ray Allen has been the most glaring.  It's not his shooting that I'm worried about.  As a matter of fact, I feel that if he has a saving grace, it is that he can still shoot the basketball better than just about anybody else in the world.  

Well, far be it from me to derail the blame train, but i think the fact that my brothers basketball team rebounds as well as the current boston celtics has alot more to do with why we're losing than ray allen alone.

Tough to beat a team when you give them a ton of easy buckets a game due to offensive rebounds, and go one and done on the other end because you get zero boards.

Sure there a myriad of issues but, there is 1 really big expiring contract that could help remedy some of them.  Also the low amount of offensive rebounds has more to do with the fact that Doc wants ' everyone back ' and they shoot 50% as a team.

If you say so. considering this is the same offense and defense (supposedly) scheme, why do you suppose we used to be one of the best rebounding teams and are now one of the worst?

The logical awnser would be we are older and it's tougher to rebound as you get older. But i guess it could be an intentional scheme of doc's...for some reason.

And, again, I'll believe the "teams are foaming at the mouth to trade us talent for an expiring contract!!!" line of thinking when i see it happen. That would fly in the face of every NBA trade contention.

Expirings have always been great chips when you can include some sort of talent the team taking the expiring is interested in.

Every single trade rumor thats been shot down (including the one on the main page for martin) has centered around teams wanting more than ray's contract to give up an impact player, and us not having one they like.

Until the trade appears and goes down, I'm going to stick by the history of every NBA trade deadline ever and say that IF they move allen's contract alone, they won't get anything other than marginal players back.

But hey, mabey some team will have a brain aneurysm and toss us a young stud for simple cap relief or one of our unattractive young kids like JR. A suckers born every minute after all.

[BballTim]

Here's the most recent characterization:

According to NBA sources, Ainge is not shopping Allen and he told his veteran guard that much in a conversation last week.

But those same sources said Ainge is listening to offers on Allen, whose play has declined this season and whose contract will become increasingly enticing in the next eight days. . . .

. . . According to the sources, Ainge is not eager to move Allen and would do so only if he could get a proven scorer with a manageable contract who is considerably younger.

Link.

That is pretty much in line with what most posters think.

  But there's also this in the article: "According to Celtics sources, the organization is not interested in taking on “bad contracts’’ that could hurt salary cap space". That's definitely not in line with what most posters think.

[ssspence]

Here's the most recent characterization:

According to NBA sources, Ainge is not shopping Allen and he told his veteran guard that much in a conversation last week.

But those same sources said Ainge is listening to offers on Allen, whose play has declined this season and whose contract will become increasingly enticing in the next eight days. . . .

. . . According to the sources, Ainge is not eager to move Allen and would do so only if he could get a proven scorer with a manageable contract who is considerably younger.

Link.

That is pretty much in line with what most posters think.

Exactly and it's purely wild speculation to assume that Ainge is thinking anywhere outside of this when it comes to Ray.

Agreed. Though I'm sure Danny is not naive enough to imagine he's going to get a good young scorer with a managable contract straight up for an expiring one like Ray's. It will be about money for any potential trade partner (since we have very few assets), so we're going to have to take another contract./ After all, what young player with a 'managable' contract would match Ray's $19.7mil deal in a trade?

[Roy Hobbs]

Here's the most recent characterization:

According to NBA sources, Ainge is not shopping Allen and he told his veteran guard that much in a conversation last week.

But those same sources said Ainge is listening to offers on Allen, whose play has declined this season and whose contract will become increasingly enticing in the next eight days. . . .

. . . According to the sources, Ainge is not eager to move Allen and would do so only if he could get a proven scorer with a manageable contract who is considerably younger.

Link.

That is pretty much in line with what most posters think.

  But there's also this in the article: "According to Celtics sources, the organization is not interested in taking on “bad contracts’’ that could hurt salary cap space". That's definitely not in line with what most posters think.

Yeah, in other words, it's not going to happen, if that's accurate.

Why would a team like the Kings give up their younger, proven scorer on a reasonable contract, if they're not getting cap relief? 

The above quote also seems to preclude trading for Iguodala (with or without Dalembert) because I don't think anybody would consider his contract "manageable".  It's a bad contract, no doubt about it.

[ssspence]

Here's the most recent characterization:

According to NBA sources, Ainge is not shopping Allen and he told his veteran guard that much in a conversation last week.

But those same sources said Ainge is listening to offers on Allen, whose play has declined this season and whose contract will become increasingly enticing in the next eight days. . . .

. . . According to the sources, Ainge is not eager to move Allen and would do so only if he could get a proven scorer with a manageable contract who is considerably younger.

Link.

That is pretty much in line with what most posters think.

  But there's also this in the article: "According to Celtics sources, the organization is not interested in taking on “bad contracts’’ that could hurt salary cap space". That's definitely not in line with what most posters think.

See my post above. Trades of good young players with manageable deals for strictly an expiring contract don’t exist. So Gary Washburn can tow the party line, but it doesn’t mean that Ainge doesn’t understand the ways of the NBA world. I agree they’re unlikely to take a truly bad contract, so he probably won’t do a deal.

[ssspence]

Here's the most recent characterization:

According to NBA sources, Ainge is not shopping Allen and he told his veteran guard that much in a conversation last week.

But those same sources said Ainge is listening to offers on Allen, whose play has declined this season and whose contract will become increasingly enticing in the next eight days. . . .

. . . According to the sources, Ainge is not eager to move Allen and would do so only if he could get a proven scorer with a manageable contract who is considerably younger.

Link.

That is pretty much in line with what most posters think.

  But there's also this in the article: "According to Celtics sources, the organization is not interested in taking on “bad contracts’’ that could hurt salary cap space". That's definitely not in line with what most posters think.

Yeah, in other words, it's not going to happen, if that's accurate.

Why would a team like the Kings give up their younger, proven scorer on a reasonable contract, if they're not getting cap relief? 

The above quote also seems to preclude trading for Iguodala (with or without Dalembert) because I don't think anybody would consider his contract "manageable".  It's a bad contract, no doubt about it.

Of course. This is an article written on behalf of the Cs to get a message across -- nothing more nothing less.

[Edgar]

If so and just in case
I will open a bottle of fine vodka
put a LOT of ice on it
A BIG shot
Some cola soda
2 drops of lemon juice
And say "SALUD" for one great player
who gave a lot to My beloved team.