Ray gone last game of old Celtics wednesday?

[ssspence]

There's a very slim chance he's traded before the deadline. The Cs are looking for a homerun deal, and I can't blame them, based on the following prediction:

If they keep him, they will make him a 1-year offer for less than $10mil. He won't wish to agree and then could just walk, at which point they won't have the cap space to replace him. That's bad business.

[arctic 3.0]

I can understand wanting to trade Ray to find some younger talent, improve the team... what I don't understand is how many people seem to just want Ray out of here. Even though he hasn't been accurate from 3-point land, you people do realize that overall he's shooting above his career average right?

People want a scapegoat for this team's struggles. Its easier to say trade Ray and fix it, than acknowledge that KG/Pierce have also declined and that's as much of a problem.

(House's struggles have also been a big issue)

I think that's patently unfair. There are many rational people entertaining Allen trade ideas who acknowledge that ALL of the big 3 have declined. However, the options then become: Watch the team slowly deteriorate until rebuilding in 2012 (end of KG's contract) or make a trade. If you go the second route, Ray is the most expedable and desirable commodity of the team: he can still play and is an expiring deal, and most potential trade partners are not looking to contend but looking to create cap space. In a vacuum, one wouldn't necessarily trade Ray before Pierce or KG; but looking at the market, he's the expiring deal.

agreed. i don't think anyone is scapegoating ray. we discuss trading him because his contract is the most valuable chip we have, and our best chance of landing an impact player before next season.

i'd much rather trade sheed or scraps but that is not likely to result in any upgrade.

[Jon]

Just because the newspapers are reporting it, doesn't mean it's going to happen.  In fact, the Globe article says the Kings trade is unlikely (as does the front page article on CB), the Herald article is more of an opinion piece on why Ray should be traded. 

It may happen, but I think the chances are still dramatically less than 50/50. 

[Fafnir]

I can understand wanting to trade Ray to find some younger talent, improve the team... what I don't understand is how many people seem to just want Ray out of here. Even though he hasn't been accurate from 3-point land, you people do realize that overall he's shooting above his career average right?

People want a scapegoat for this team's struggles. Its easier to say trade Ray and fix it, than acknowledge that KG/Pierce have also declined and that's as much of a problem.

(House's struggles have also been a big issue)

I think that's patently unfair. There are many rational people entertaining Allen trade ideas who acknowledge that ALL of the big 3 have declined.

There sure are, however there are also plenty of people who think Ray Allen is "killing the team'. Especially on the defensive end, but also with his shooting. That's not the reality of the C's situation.

[Fafnir]

agreed. i don't think anyone is scapegoating ray.

That's not true, plenty have.

[Roy Hobbs]

Here's the most recent characterization:

According to NBA sources, Ainge is not shopping Allen and he told his veteran guard that much in a conversation last week.

But those same sources said Ainge is listening to offers on Allen, whose play has declined this season and whose contract will become increasingly enticing in the next eight days. . . .

. . . According to the sources, Ainge is not eager to move Allen and would do so only if he could get a proven scorer with a manageable contract who is considerably younger.

Link.

[celticinorlando]

The next time the Celtics play a game at the TD Garden, they could be a significantly different team.

they need to be...because the team as it stands right now won't get out of the second round of the playoffs

[ssspence]

agreed. i don't think anyone is scapegoating ray.

That's not true, plenty have.

It’s not like people have been suggesting we trade him for picks. Andre Iguodala, Kevin Martin, etc are legit NBA players who are far younger. Folks are looking to take advantage of his contract and its meaning to financially strapped teams.

I’ve really not seen people blame all the Celtics problems on Ray in threads or trade ideas, but maybe I just haven’t been reading those that do so.

[Fafnir]

agreed. i don't think anyone is scapegoating ray.

That's not true, plenty have.

It’s not like people have been suggesting we trade him for picks. Andre Iguodala, Kevin Martin, etc are legit NBA players who are far younger. Folks are looking to take advantage of his contract and its meaning to financially strapped teams.

I’ve really not seen people blame all the Celtics problems on Ray in threads or trade ideas, but maybe I just haven’t been reading those that do so.

People always try to get great players for him but in general threads and game threads they act like he's Michael Finley.

[celticinorlando]

ray's name comes up because he has the biggest trading chip boston has to solve multiple needs. i love ray allen. i want him to get back to his true self. he plays too many minutes and his game is suffering. but i also love the Cs and want them to be SERIOUS contenders. and if that means moving ray, scal, baby, sheed...whoever to improve the team, then i am for it. they need to get younger somehow

[Fafnir]

ray's name comes up because he has the biggest trading chip boston has to solve multiple needs. i love ray allen. i want him to get back to his true self. he plays too many minutes and his game is suffering. but i also love the Cs and want them to be SERIOUS contenders. and if that means moving ray, scal, baby, sheed...whoever to improve the team, then i am for it. they need to get younger somehow

Absolutely, but the idea that no one is scapegoating him is silly. I've seen many dire predictions of what opposing SGs are going to do to us because Ray Allen sucks at everything now.

People scapegoat everyone when the C's lose. I've seen posts blaming Eddie House, Doc, Ray Allen, Lucky, etc....

[wdleehi]

Here's the most recent characterization:

According to NBA sources, Ainge is not shopping Allen and he told his veteran guard that much in a conversation last week.

But those same sources said Ainge is listening to offers on Allen, whose play has declined this season and whose contract will become increasingly enticing in the next eight days. . . .

. . . According to the sources, Ainge is not eager to move Allen and would do so only if he could get a proven scorer with a manageable contract who is considerably younger.

Link.

That is pretty much in line with what most posters think.

[Ersatz]

There sure are, however there are also plenty of people who think Ray Allen is "killing the team'. Especially on the defensive end, but also with his shooting. That's not the reality of the C's situation.

I thought from pretty much the beginning of the season through the Lakers game, but since then Ray has played really well. Still wish he were shooting better, but I believe that will come, if Doc cuts back his minutes.

The thing about trading Ray is that you get crap in return: Heinrich/Salmons are terrible players, Igoudala is way unclutch, Ellis is supremely overrated. I'd take Kevin Martin, but to get him in exchange for Ray we'd have to take Nocioni, and that would make me vomit. I rather watch the Cs flame out this year--which I don't think will happen--than have to see Nocioni in a Cs uniform for two more years. That would be extremely painful.

[celticinorlando]

ray's name comes up because he has the biggest trading chip boston has to solve multiple needs. i love ray allen. i want him to get back to his true self. he plays too many minutes and his game is suffering. but i also love the Cs and want them to be SERIOUS contenders. and if that means moving ray, scal, baby, sheed...whoever to improve the team, then i am for it. they need to get younger somehow

Absolutely, but the idea that no one is scapegoating him is silly. I've seen many dire predictions of what opposing SGs are going to do to us because Ray Allen sucks at everything now.

People scapegoat everyone when the C's lose. I've seen posts blaming Eddie House, Doc, Ray Allen, Lucky, etc....

i blame everyone...coaches, players....sooner or later someone for Boston has to setp up and say enough is enough

[Celtics18]

Nobody's scapegoating Ray? Well then, let me be the first.  I think it's pretty clear that of all the problems the Cs have had lately, the poor play of Ray Allen has been the most glaring.  It's not his shooting that I'm worried about.  As a matter of fact, I feel that if he has a saving grace, it is that he can still shoot the basketball better than just about anybody else in the world.  

Although his defense certainly hasn't been great, that's not my biggest concern either.  The thing that has bothered me the most about Ray Allen this year, is that he doesn't seem to be able to accept that his strength is as a floor spreader who can knock down threes, a role playing shooter.  Ray wants the ball in his hands.  Unfortunately, whenever he tries to make a play, it generally looks disastrous.  He's not a good ballhandler, dribbling around aimlessly with his head down.  When he gets double teamed, he doesn't find open guys or make plays.  He either turns the ball over or wastes time getting the team in desperation mode.  

I appreciate what Ray has done for us, but I strongly believe that it's time to move on.  

If Danny doesn't move him by the deadline, I hope that Doc has the fortitude to reduce Ray's role on this team significantly, giving us much more Marquis and TA.  


Ray Allen as a 35+ minute per game starter is not a recipe for success for the 2010 Boston Celtics.