Could Danny punt this year? Would you?

[Vicirus]

In the next few weeks, Danny and Doc will have a good look at the team they thought they were getting this year. If the team doesn’t show that they are one of the elite teams in the league, as they looked at the start of the year, I really think there is a chance that this team is blown up. Ainge would only need to move four players in order to sign Lebron and Bosh this summer. I pose six questions to you:

1) Would Ainge be willing to fold this year for a chance at multiple championships in the coming decade?

I believe he would, as he demonstrated that he always has a long term plan for the franchise.   

2) The four players he has to move are: Pierce, KG, Big Baby, and Sheed. Would Ainge trade the two faces of the franchise and deal with the fan/media reaction of it?

Yes, as he has said multiple times, he would have traded Bird and McHale at the end of their careers.

3) Could he trade the above mentioned players on their own for only expiring contracts?

Pierce – Yes, KG – Maybe, Big Baby – Maybe, Sheed – No.

4) What are the potential deals for the above mentioned players?

Since Pierce is the easiest player to move, I think you try to move him with Sheed attached. Teams that are in serious championship contention would potentially be willing to take on both. The most obvious trading partner would be Dallas. They have the expiring contracts in Dampier and Josh Howard that the Celtics would want, as well as a clear need at SG/SF. Because of the nature of Dampier’s and Howard’s contracts, the Celtics could also hold onto them going into the off-season and attempt a sign and trade.

Ainge could then package KG and Baby together for salaries in the $20MM range. There are multiple teams that need extra size, and also many teams would see boosts in ticket sales with KG on the team. One scenario I came up with is:

Boston Trades: KG, Big Baby, and J.R. Giddens
LA Clippers Trade: Camby, Rasual Butler, Al Thorton and Ricky Davis

Sterling is one of the cheapest owners in the league, so the additional revenue would be as much of a reason to do the deal as talent would be. Getting Thorton could be a stretch, but we could also just ask for a future first rounder or just substitute in Bassy.

5) Would a line-up of Rondo/Ray Allen/Howard/Camby/Perkins with Dampier off the bench, be that big of a downgrade from Rondo/Allen/Pierce/KG/Perkins for this year?

I honestly don’t think so. Having the constant health questions surrounding KG and Pierce could sink the current team. I believe that Camby, for this year, is on par with KG. Howard is a clear downgrade from Pierce, but one of our needs has been to get more athletic. If he can regain his form of two years ago, we could be nearly as good. Thorton would also provide more athleticism.

6) Would the allure of playing with a foundation of Rondo and Perkins, as well as for the most storied team in NBA history, be enough to convince Lebron and Bosh to come here (or Wade)?

No other team can offer max money, as well as a roster with players the caliber of Rondo and Perkins. Unless the additional year and larger yearly raises is that important to Lebron and Bosh, I don’t see any team other than Miami being in competition with us. The weather and no state income tax would be Miami’s advantage.

So I ask all of you, what are your answers to questions 1 – 6? Would you do it? (Also, if anyone wants to see salary projections fo next year, let me know.)

[Donoghus]

No, I don't think Danny is going to punt at all.  This team has the talent.  One of the big issues is the injuries.  Small adjustments may be made but I don't see a blow-up.  I think Danny knows that he has the talent.  The problem has been keeping them on the floor. 

There are no realistic trades they can make this season that would give us a shot at multiple championships. 

I also think that any dreams of seeing Wade, Lebron, or Bosh playing in green in the near future are just that, dreams.  It's not happening.  The allure of playing for a franchise like the Celtics just doesn't matter to guys these days; dollar signs does.

[mgent]

You should've stopped after the first question because Danny has made it clear he has no intention of making a trade that doesn't make us better this year.

Nevermind blowing up our team.

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't see any circumstance where the team would voluntarily enter the rebuilding process as soon as this season.  Free agency is such a crap shoot that it makes no sense for a team in the Celtics' position to pursue free agents rather than maximizing its chances at a championship.

[Andy Jick]

i believe when the smoke clears at the trading deadline danny will have done NOTHING.  he will pick up a guy who was waived to play the backup PG.

i believe the only thing that changes this is IF chicago is willing to package Luol Deng in a deal, which they won't.  but danny is no dummy, and he's put all his marbles in this version of the "big 3"...

[More Banners]

I don't see any circumstance where the team would voluntarily enter the rebuilding process as soon as this season.  Free agency is such a crap shoot that it makes no sense for a team in the Celtics' position to pursue free agents rather than maximizing its chances at a championship.

Right.  And Danny said shortly after taking the job that FA was a sucker's game, since you have to overpay by definition by outbidding the other teams.  Maybe the last piece comes by FA signing, but you rarely build that way with any success.

[Celtics17]

While I think this whole thread is very far fetched I will say this. If there was a guarantee that Lebron would sign with the C's this off season and another big name player then I really think he would do it. The thing is, there is no such guarantee nor will there ever be. That being said, you dont get this close to winning a title and 'punt'.

Look, I watched the 86 team win the Finals and was pumped for Celtics ball for the rest of my life. Then, it happened. Bias died prematurely, Walton would never play more then a few games again and not long after Lewis also passed. You never know what the future holds but the present is right in front of you always and right now it doesnt look that bad. In another two months we will probably have the longest winning streak in the league and you can quote me on that (if it happens anyway).

[Vicirus]

You should've stopped after the first question because Danny has made it clear he has no intention of making a trade that doesn't make us better this year.

Nevermind blowing up our team.

How do you make this team better though? Ray Allen and two first rounders isn't going to net you enough to win a championship in my opinion. I don't see Monta Ellis and Kevin Martin putting this team over the top. Nor a pupu platter of Chicago players. And if you do get someone who is a clear upgrade on Allen, then you are also getting a garbage contract along with that player.

What over the last two months makes people think this team can win a championship? Yes, there have been injuries, but I just can't see them pulling it out this year.

I don't see any circumstance where the team would voluntarily enter the rebuilding process as soon as this season.  Free agency is such a crap shoot that it makes no sense for a team in the Celtics' position to pursue free agents rather than maximizing its chances at a championship.

I would also argue that retaining the current set of players and letting them age before our eyes is a crap shoot too. What players can reasonably be counted on to be better next year? Maybe Rondo and maybe Perk? I see the team getting worse over the next few years, not getting better.

Let me ask you this... if you were reasonably sure the team wouldn't win a championship this year, and you could sign two of Lebron/Bosh/Wade/Amare, would you do what I suggested?

I think that if the team is in 4th place going into the trade deadline, Ainge could do what I suggest.

[Vicirus]

Look, I watched the 86 team win the Finals and was pumped for Celtics ball for the rest of my life. Then, it happened. Bias died prematurely, Walton would never play more then a few games again and not long after Lewis also passed. You never know what the future holds but the present is right in front of you always and right now it doesnt look that bad.

So you are the perfect person to comment on this. What if they are in fourth place at the deadline and they continue to have issues with defensive consistency and injuries? What would you do?

As optomistic as I'd like to be about our chances, I could see Pierce aging like Bird, and KG and his knee aging like McHale. Then we're back to where we were a few years ago. Crossing our fingers for a break in the draft and a yearly first or second round exit in the playoffs.

[Celtics17]

Well, you have made some valid points here. Again though, I do actually think that if this team is healthy then we will compete for a title. That looks to be a big if now and may be a bigger one in two months but maybe not. KG should get healthier and Paul is still very good as well as Ray. The way I see this team built is that it really takes all of the components of it to make it work well but when they are all there this team can win. Now if Lebron and another of those names you mentioned would definitely sign then I would be for trading several of our players as Lebron is that good. Wherever he goes they will be title contenders within a year or two and maybe instantly.

[BASS_THUMPER]

lol..it's been worse for us...

i wouldnt want lebron here..the c's pride thing he dont fit..when i look back at bird and parish..mchale..dj..they were older and playin hurt and makin it happen till they couldnt no more.
i guess im old skool..like to see the fight in us..

we knew age was a factor

dynasty's dont last forever and sooner or later we all rebuild..let these talented brotha run..they know when it's over

[Andy Jick]

all these posts point to another thought (since we're making comparisons to the past)...

bill walker should be playing.  go back in time with me and recall that fred roberts was playing instead of reggie lewis.  now, i'm not saying that walker has the same skill set as reggie lewis - but one could make the argument that playing scalabrine ahead of walker is a similar comparison. 

doc and kc jones have displayed similar thoughts with regard to playing time for young players.  i thought the idea regarding history was to learn from it and not repeat the same mistakes...

[Cman]

TP to the OP for an interesting topic.

TP to Donoghus for the dose of cold water reality

I also think that any dreams of seeing Wade, Lebron, or Bosh playing in green in the near future are just that, dreams.  It's not happening.  The allure of playing for a franchise like the Celtics just doesn't matter to guys these days; dollar signs does.

Agreed.

At the end of the day, Danny has more or less made his bed (or the C's bed) with the current players.  If a great deal for Ray comes along, I could see Danny jumping at the offer, but otherwise I think it is highly unlikely that *anyone* on this team gets moved by the trade deadline.  The beauty of keeping Ray is that he can be involved in a S&T over the summer (if he doesn't resign at a bit of a hometown discount).

[cornbreadsmart]

can you imagine heaing these trades going down on espn one morning? no? that's becuase they would never happen.

[Vicirus]

I originally posted this topic one week before the trade deadline (2/06), but I thought it might be interesting to look back at what could've happened.

At the time, I felt like I saw the writing on the wall with this team (old, injury prone, lack of effort and consistency) and I hoped that Danny did too. A lot of the replies I got could be summed up as, "Danny would never do it. Free agents won't sign here. We're too close to a title."

My question to you, is if you could go back to 2/06:

1. Would you have traded off Pierce, KG, Baby, and Sheed in order to rebuild and try signing Lebron/Wade/Bosh this summer?

2. Would Danny have done it if he got a re-do?

I would have then, and definitely would now. As for Danny, I think he doesn't do anything. A team that consistently makes the playoffs and gets to the second round is a profitable team, and after all, this is a business.