CHI sun times rumor: Ray Allen for Kirk Hinrich

[Chris]

Please, please... tell me this trade is a joke.

Hinrich 40 mpg; 35,6% 3point; 37,9% 2point; 71,2% freetrhows; 10 pts....

Are you crazy here?

And, of course, we give up our future with this trade

how do we give up our future?

  He probably means taking on the contracts.

That doesn't make sense though, since all it will be affecting is the owners pockets.  The C's aren't getting under the cap before KG comes off the cap anyways, so the future isn't really a problem.  Although convincing the owners to pay that much luxury tax may be.

[Drucci]

Please, please... tell me this trade is a joke.

Hinrich 40 mpg; 35,6% 3point; 37,9% 2point; 71,2% freetrhows; 10 pts....

Are you crazy here?

And, of course, we give up our future with this trade

how do we give up our future?

He probably means taking on the contracts.

We weren't going to have cap space anyways and we get a young PF with potential to take KG's spot in the next few years. That's not exactly giving up on the future , it actually helps our future.

It may help the future (notice the "may") but it certainly kills our present and our chances of winning the championship so I will say no to this trade in a heartbeat. Terrible trade for us.

[BballTim]

Please, please... tell me this trade is a joke.

Hinrich 40 mpg; 35,6% 3point; 37,9% 2point; 71,2% freetrhows; 10 pts....

Are you crazy here?

And, of course, we give up our future with this trade

how do we give up our future?

  He probably means taking on the contracts.

That doesn't make sense though, since all it will be affecting is the owners pockets.  The C's aren't getting under the cap before KG comes off the cap anyways, so the future isn't really a problem.  Although convincing the owners to pay that much luxury tax may be.

  It will clearly affect Ainge's budget.

[TradeProposalDude]

These Ray Allen trade rumors remind me of the Paul Pierce trade rumors prior to the KG trade. Everyone seems to believe he's on the chopping block, except for the guy who has control over his destiny.

I'm almost certain Ray is staying here. The question boils down to this: What would help out the Celtics more? Draft pick(s) + Young players with potential or Younger role players like Hinrich and Thomas OR cap space? By allowing Allen to walk after this season, we accomplish the latter goal.

But I guess there's another component: Celtics fans think Ray Allen is a deterrent to Boston's winning ways THIS year. If that's the case, then maybe Ainge should honestly attempt to trade him.

[rondohondo]

These Ray Allen trade rumors remind me of the Paul Pierce trade rumors prior to the KG trade. Everyone seems to believe he's on the chopping block, except for the guy who has control over his destiny.

I'm almost certain Ray is staying here. The question boils down to this: What would help out the Celtics more? Draft pick(s) + Young players with potential or Younger role players like Hinrich and Thomas OR cap space? By allowing Allen to walk after this season, we accomplish the latter goal.

But I guess there's another component: Celtics fans think Ray Allen is a deterrent to Boston's winning ways THIS year. If that's the case, then maybe Ainge should honestly attempt to trade him.

We don't get cap space by letting Ray go at the end of the year.

[TradeProposalDude]

we don't get cap space by letting Ray go at the end of the year.

That's correct. We get flexibility, not space.

But I wonder if Pierce opts out as well.. then we'd have space as we'd be under the cap... correct?

[rondohondo]

we don't get cap space by letting Ray go at the end of the year.

That's correct. We get flexibility, not space.

But I wonder if Pierce opts out as well.. then we'd have space as we'd be under the cap... correct?

nope, go look at the front page and scroll down to the Gary Tanguay article, it explains this exactly.

[ssspence]

Please, please... tell me this trade is a joke.

Hinrich 40 mpg; 35,6% 3point; 37,9% 2point; 71,2% freetrhows; 10 pts....

Are you crazy here?

And, of course, we give up our future with this trade

how do we give up our future?

He probably means taking on the contracts.

We weren't going to have cap space anyways and we get a young PF with potential to take KG's spot in the next few years. That's not exactly giving up on the future , it actually helps our future.

It may help the future (notice the "may") but it certainly kills our present and our chances of winning the championship so I will say no to this trade in a heartbeat. Terrible trade for us.

I agree. I like the idea of Thomas but a Ray for Heinrich trade is a non-starter for me.

A Salmons & Thomas for expirings and pick deal, I would consider.

[Chris]

we don't get cap space by letting Ray go at the end of the year.

That's correct. We get flexibility, not space.

But I wonder if Pierce opts out as well.. then we'd have space as we'd be under the cap... correct?

Nope...well, not really.  We would have to renounce all free agents, and would still only have less than $10 million in cap space.  Not going to happen.

[Chris]

Please, please... tell me this trade is a joke.

Hinrich 40 mpg; 35,6% 3point; 37,9% 2point; 71,2% freetrhows; 10 pts....

Are you crazy here?

And, of course, we give up our future with this trade

how do we give up our future?

  He probably means taking on the contracts.

That doesn't make sense though, since all it will be affecting is the owners pockets.  The C's aren't getting under the cap before KG comes off the cap anyways, so the future isn't really a problem.  Although convincing the owners to pay that much luxury tax may be.

  It will clearly affect Ainge's budget.

True.  Although I don't know how much it would matter, if we got Hinrich, Salmons, and Thomas, since we could have them all next year as well, which would give us a pretty deep team before even looking at anyone else.

But I do have my doubts Wyc would allow this.  It adds a lot of money for next season.

[Jack_Frost]

1) This trade affect Ainge budget for the next years
2) Ray Allen at lower price (say about 6-8 mln) is more attractive than Hinrich (two years left on his contract at 9 milions) if Danny want to do a sign and trade
3) how can hinrich improve allen's game? Do you really believe Hinrich is a better player? And, of course... if you don't notice that: he is having the worst season of his career
4) If you trade Allen you kill the Big Three era, are you ready for this? I'm not. Unless we can get a player like Iggy or, at least, Kevin Martin (i hope you understand the difference with hinrich).
5) Do you really want to give up one or two draft pick? This is a big mistake. People must learn that a pick could be a valuable player... Last draft was one of the worst ever but i'd like to have one between Lawson, Collison, Casspi or Blair...

[Chris]

1) This trade affect Ainge budget for the next years
2) Ray Allen at lower price (say about 6-8 mln) is more attractive than Hinrich (two years left on his contract at 9 milions) if Danny want to do a sign and trade
3) how can hinrich improve allen's game? Do you really believe Hinrich is a better player? And, fo course, if you don't notice that: he is having the worst season of his career
4) If you trade Allen you kill the Big Three era, are you ready for this? I'm not. Unless we can get a player like Iggy or, at least, Kevin Martin.

Well, I can certainly understand this point of view, and go back and forth from similar thinking myself.  But I think there are two things you are overlooking.

First, this is not Ray for Hinrich.  This is Ray for Hinrich AND another piece or two.  I have said, I would only do it, if it were Hinrich, Salmons, and Thomas. 

I agree that Hinrich is not as good as Allen.  I also do not think Hinrich should be a full time SG.  However, since Allen is not a superstar anymore, if you can get three players who would immediately fit into our top 8 (which those three would), then I think you have to look at it.

I also think this team is clearly missing athleticism, and the defensive ability they had two years ago.  This trade brings some of that back.

And finally, this is not the 2008 Celtics.  That team is gone.  This is a different team.  They are not the shutdown defenders, and killer offensive players they used to be.  Rondo and Perkins have become much more prominent.  They can't keep this team together, or fail to make changes, even within the team, because of what happened 2 years ago.  They need to continue to evolve, and improve, or else they will just fade away. 

I am not sure if this is the deal that will do it (and in reality, both teams may turn this down), but this is the type of deal that Danny needs to be looking for, because lets face it, he is probably not going to get a younger player who is as good, or better than Allen.  What he is looking for is a package that makes the team better than they are right now.

[Drucci]

1) This trade affect Ainge budget for the next years
2) Ray Allen at lower price (say about 6-8 mln) is more attractive than Hinrich (two years left on his contract at 9 milions) if Danny want to do a sign and trade
3) how can hinrich improve allen's game? Do you really believe Hinrich is a better player? And, fo course, if you don't notice that: he is having the worst season of his career
4) If you trade Allen you kill the Big Three era, are you ready for this? I'm not. Unless we can get a player like Iggy or, at least, Kevin Martin.

Well, I can certainly understand this point of view, and go back and forth from similar thinking myself.  But I think there are two things you are overlooking.

First, this is not Ray for Hinrich.  This is Ray for Hinrich AND another piece or two.  I have said, I would only do it, if it were Hinrich, Salmons, and Thomas. 

I agree that Hinrich is not as good as Allen.  I also do not think Hinrich should be a full time SG.  However, since Allen is not a superstar anymore, if you can get three players who would immediately fit into our top 8 (which those three would), then I think you have to look at it.

I also think this team is clearly missing athleticism, and the defensive ability they had two years ago.  This trade brings some of that back.

And finally, this is not the 2008 Celtics.  That team is gone.  This is a different team.  They are not the shutdown defenders, and killer offensive players they used to be.  Rondo and Perkins have become much more prominent.  They can't keep this team together, or fail to make changes, even within the team, because of what happened 2 years ago.  They need to continue to evolve, and improve, or else they will just fade away. 

I am not sure if this is the deal that will do it (and in reality, both teams may turn this down), but this is the type of deal that Danny needs to be looking for, because lets face it, he is probably not going to get a younger player who is as good, or better than Allen.  What he is looking for is a package that makes the team better than they are right now.

Would you do a Scal, TA and Giddens + Walker for Hinrich deal, then? Keeping Ray, and only adding Hinrich (and not Salmons) to our bench for this year and maybe putting him in the starting lineup next season while re-signing Ray to a "cheap" contract and use him as a 6th man?

I really like Hinrich and he would be a great fit for us (he would fix a lot of our weaknesses) but only if we get him without losing such big talent and intangibles as Ray.

[rondohondo]

1) This trade affect Ainge budget for the next years
2) Ray Allen at lower price (say about 6-8 mln) is more attractive than Hinrich (two years left on his contract at 9 milions) if Danny want to do a sign and trade
3) how can hinrich improve allen's game? Do you really believe Hinrich is a better player? And, fo course, if you don't notice that: he is having the worst season of his career
4) If you trade Allen you kill the Big Three era, are you ready for this? I'm not. Unless we can get a player like Iggy or, at least, Kevin Martin.

Well, I can certainly understand this point of view, and go back and forth from similar thinking myself.  But I think there are two things you are overlooking.

First, this is not Ray for Hinrich.  This is Ray for Hinrich AND another piece or two.  I have said, I would only do it, if it were Hinrich, Salmons, and Thomas. 

I agree that Hinrich is not as good as Allen.  I also do not think Hinrich should be a full time SG.  However, since Allen is not a superstar anymore, if you can get three players who would immediately fit into our top 8 (which those three would), then I think you have to look at it.

I also think this team is clearly missing athleticism, and the defensive ability they had two years ago.  This trade brings some of that back.

And finally, this is not the 2008 Celtics.  That team is gone.  This is a different team.  They are not the shutdown defenders, and killer offensive players they used to be.  Rondo and Perkins have become much more prominent.  They can't keep this team together, or fail to make changes, even within the team, because of what happened 2 years ago.  They need to continue to evolve, and improve, or else they will just fade away. 

I am not sure if this is the deal that will do it (and in reality, both teams may turn this down), but this is the type of deal that Danny needs to be looking for, because lets face it, he is probably not going to get a younger player who is as good, or better than Allen.  What he is looking for is a package that makes the team better than they are right now.

Would you do a Scal, TA and Giddens + Walker for Hinrich deal, then? Keeping Ray, and only adding Hinrich (and not Salmons) to our bench for this year and maybe putting him in the starting lineup next season while re-signing Ray to a "cheap" contract and use him as a 6th man?

I really like Hinrich and he would be a great fit for us (he would fix a lot of our weaknesses) but only if we get him without losing such big talent and intangibles as Ray.

Chicago already turned down a similar deal, they aren't going to give just hinrich away in a salary dump.

[Jack_Frost]

1) This trade affect Ainge budget for the next years
2) Ray Allen at lower price (say about 6-8 mln) is more attractive than Hinrich (two years left on his contract at 9 milions) if Danny want to do a sign and trade
3) how can hinrich improve allen's game? Do you really believe Hinrich is a better player? And, fo course, if you don't notice that: he is having the worst season of his career
4) If you trade Allen you kill the Big Three era, are you ready for this? I'm not. Unless we can get a player like Iggy or, at least, Kevin Martin.

Well, I can certainly understand this point of view, and go back and forth from similar thinking myself.  But I think there are two things you are overlooking.

First, this is not Ray for Hinrich.  This is Ray for Hinrich AND another piece or two.  I have said, I would only do it, if it were Hinrich, Salmons, and Thomas. 

I agree that Hinrich is not as good as Allen.  I also do not think Hinrich should be a full time SG.  However, since Allen is not a superstar anymore, if you can get three players who would immediately fit into our top 8 (which those three would), then I think you have to look at it.

I also think this team is clearly missing athleticism, and the defensive ability they had two years ago.  This trade brings some of that back.

And finally, this is not the 2008 Celtics.  That team is gone.  This is a different team.  They are not the shutdown defenders, and killer offensive players they used to be.  Rondo and Perkins have become much more prominent.  They can't keep this team together, or fail to make changes, even within the team, because of what happened 2 years ago.  They need to continue to evolve, and improve, or else they will just fade away. 

I am not sure if this is the deal that will do it (and in reality, both teams may turn this down), but this is the type of deal that Danny needs to be looking for, because lets face it, he is probably not going to get a younger player who is as good, or better than Allen.  What he is looking for is a package that makes the team better than they are right now.

I respect your thought, this is a very interesting perspective, but we need to make clear some points:

- Is this trade considering to give up one or more picks? I hope not
- Are you really think we are going to be a contender with Hinrich, Thomas and Salmons instead of Allen? I'm not
- Are you sure when you say: "lets face it, he is probably not going to get a younger player who is as good, or better than Allen?". Maybe you're right, but everyday i read trade rumors about Iguodala and Kevin Martin and i think Allen could be useful to many teams out there.