Does anybody think? (Rondo's Character)

[crownsy]

I think talk is cheap. Most players on the team say the right things about team and effort.

They aren't following through, I think it goes up and down the roster. I really think it all started when KG went down. KG playing at a top 10 level could will the team on how to play and it was his team.

Now I don't know if its his team anymore.

It better be or we (the C's) have bigger issues than injuries.  This is where knowing your role comes into play.

He does know his role, leader on the court and off.

The fact that you would dismiss his claim to that because his stats aren't good enough and he hasn't played 10 years in the league doesn't change that.

[dasandruler]

beginning of the season ask me if rondo should be making comments I woulda raised an eyebrow but wouldnt care--I like his fire and Kg is still King in the Locker room if he oversteps.  But Now....lil ron-ron is a beast out there--dominatin'....bottom line:players who perform get to run their yap--period. Lead by example. I think its safe to say rondo is the most effective baller on this squad, and I get the impression people still don't wanna give him his due.  This team has been tip toeing around issues, and obviously lack passion....speak up young man, your the future, and its gonna be your team soon.

[crownsy]

I don't think anyone other than KG, Paul, or Doc should be commenting on the team to the media.  I would have added Ray except for the fact with his diminishing skills it's probably best that he stay quiet as well.  I just don't think Rondo has the weight (cache) in the league to have a positive effect with these types of comments.  I can seem them having negative effect though.

Wow, i couldn't disagree more that the measure of a player's leadership ability should be an arbitrary measurement like "time served" measured against stats.

by that token, zach randolph is a far better leader than rajon rondo. he's played longer, and  has better stats. He puts up a double-double every night, no further analysis needed.

I think the team would disagree completely with your reasoning for not seeing rondo as a leader as well, they clearly do.

Also, you still didn't address the other issue, do you think paul is out of line for talking about the same issue? if not, I need a better reason than "he's played alot longer" to justify the complete dismissal of rajon rondo as a leader on this team, which is contrary to everything we know about the team dynamic and his place on it.

EDIT: docs comments were last year, and he always prefaced them by saying he's learning and that's to be expected.

First off I never said he wasn't a leader.  He's the head of the snake and most talented player on the team.  Now to this issue.

I'm not getting into comparing Zack Randolf a career cancer with Rondo.  I'm commenting on this issue with regard to the C's and Rondo's pecking order on the team.  

I don't have an issue with Paul since he's the Captain.  Let the Captain Captain and everyone else do your job.  I did mention that in my previous post, fyi.

you now say that you agree he is a leader, but your issue with his statements is that it isn't his place to provide leadership to this team because he doesn't have enough the qualifications (defined by you as time in the league and stats in the earlier post) to be a leader.

Do you see why your logic is quite vexing to some of us?

[Birdbrain]

I think talk is cheap. Most players on the team say the right things about team and effort.

They aren't following through, I think it goes up and down the roster. I really think it all started when KG went down. KG playing at a top 10 level could will the team on how to play and it was his team.

Now I don't know if its his team anymore.

It better be or we (the C's) have bigger issues than injuries.  This is where knowing your role comes into play.

He does know his role, leader on the court and off.

The fact that you would dismiss his claim to that because his stats aren't good enough and he hasn't played 10 years in the league doesn't change that.

Well then he's mistaken and the C's are worse off for it.

[Birdbrain]

I don't think anyone other than KG, Paul, or Doc should be commenting on the team to the media.  I would have added Ray except for the fact with his diminishing skills it's probably best that he stay quiet as well.  I just don't think Rondo has the weight (cache) in the league to have a positive effect with these types of comments.  I can seem them having negative effect though.

Wow, i couldn't disagree more that the measure of a player's leadership ability should be an arbitrary measurement like "time served" measured against stats.

by that token, zach randolph is a far better leader than rajon rondo. he's played longer, and  has better stats. He puts up a double-double every night, no further analysis needed.

I think the team would disagree completely with your reasoning for not seeing rondo as a leader as well, they clearly do.

Also, you still didn't address the other issue, do you think paul is out of line for talking about the same issue? if not, I need a better reason than "he's played alot longer" to justify the complete dismissal of rajon rondo as a leader on this team, which is contrary to everything we know about the team dynamic and his place on it.

EDIT: docs comments were last year, and he always prefaced them by saying he's learning and that's to be expected.

First off I never said he wasn't a leader.  He's the head of the snake and most talented player on the team.  Now to this issue.

I'm not getting into comparing Zack Randolf a career cancer with Rondo.  I'm commenting on this issue with regard to the C's and Rondo's pecking order on the team.  

I don't have an issue with Paul since he's the Captain.  Let the Captain Captain and everyone else do your job.  I did mention that in my previous post, fyi.

you now say that you agree he is a leader, but your issue with his statements is that it isn't his place to provide leadership to this team because he doesn't have enough the qualifications (defined by you as time in the league and stats in the earlier post) to be a leader.

Do you see why your logic is quite vexing to some of us?

Doesn't surprise me at all that it's vexing.

[crownsy]

I think talk is cheap. Most players on the team say the right things about team and effort.

They aren't following through, I think it goes up and down the roster. I really think it all started when KG went down. KG playing at a top 10 level could will the team on how to play and it was his team.

Now I don't know if its his team anymore.

It better be or we (the C's) have bigger issues than injuries.  This is where knowing your role comes into play.

He does know his role, leader on the court and off.

The fact that you would dismiss his claim to that because his stats aren't good enough and he hasn't played 10 years in the league doesn't change that.

Well then he's mistaken and the C's are worse off for it.

You just said that you never said he wasen't a leader. now you again flippantly dismiss any notion that he is and say that such a notion is foolish and the C's are worse for it.

If you think he's a bad leader, which i think this and quotes in the rest of this thread allude to, stick by it. It's fine to not think rondo is a leader, even though some like me will disagree with you.

 but don't try to have it both ways, he can't be a leader and then be an foolish for trying to be a leader. That makes no sense and is a stance that can't be reconciled.

[crownsy]

I don't think anyone other than KG, Paul, or Doc should be commenting on the team to the media.  I would have added Ray except for the fact with his diminishing skills it's probably best that he stay quiet as well.  I just don't think Rondo has the weight (cache) in the league to have a positive effect with these types of comments.  I can seem them having negative effect though.

Wow, i couldn't disagree more that the measure of a player's leadership ability should be an arbitrary measurement like "time served" measured against stats.

by that token, zach randolph is a far better leader than rajon rondo. he's played longer, and  has better stats. He puts up a double-double every night, no further analysis needed.

I think the team would disagree completely with your reasoning for not seeing rondo as a leader as well, they clearly do.

Also, you still didn't address the other issue, do you think paul is out of line for talking about the same issue? if not, I need a better reason than "he's played alot longer" to justify the complete dismissal of rajon rondo as a leader on this team, which is contrary to everything we know about the team dynamic and his place on it.

EDIT: docs comments were last year, and he always prefaced them by saying he's learning and that's to be expected.

First off I never said he wasn't a leader.  He's the head of the snake and most talented player on the team.  Now to this issue.

I'm not getting into comparing Zack Randolf a career cancer with Rondo.  I'm commenting on this issue with regard to the C's and Rondo's pecking order on the team.  

I don't have an issue with Paul since he's the Captain.  Let the Captain Captain and everyone else do your job.  I did mention that in my previous post, fyi.

you now say that you agree he is a leader, but your issue with his statements is that it isn't his place to provide leadership to this team because he doesn't have enough the qualifications (defined by you as time in the league and stats in the earlier post) to be a leader.

Do you see why your logic is quite vexing to some of us?

Doesn't surprise me at all that it's vexing.

then explain it, how can you say in one post that you think he's a leader and then in every other post say he's foolish to attempt leadership, but paul is not for giving the exact same stance to the media.

I don't have a problem with your view point at all, it just makes no sense without some explanation beyond a dismissive remark.

[Birdbrain]

I think talk is cheap. Most players on the team say the right things about team and effort.

They aren't following through, I think it goes up and down the roster. I really think it all started when KG went down. KG playing at a top 10 level could will the team on how to play and it was his team.

Now I don't know if its his team anymore.

It better be or we (the C's) have bigger issues than injuries.  This is where knowing your role comes into play.

He does know his role, leader on the court and off.

The fact that you would dismiss his claim to that because his stats aren't good enough and he hasn't played 10 years in the league doesn't change that.

Well then he's mistaken and the C's are worse off for it.

You just said that you never said he wasen't a leader. now you again flippantly dismiss any notion that he is and say that such a notion is foolish and the C's are worse for it.

If you think he's a bad leader, which i think this and quotes in the rest of this thread allude to, stick by it. It's fine to not think rondo is a leader, even though some like me will disagree with you.

 but don't try to have it both ways, he can't be a leader and then be an foolish for trying to be a leader. That makes no sense and is a stance that can't be reconciled.

I took short cuts because I assumed you followed that I was differentiating a leader on the court and off the court.  Besides my complaint was his comments to the media.  Let the vets take care of that it's not necessary for Rondo to comment on other players.. to the media.

[crownsy]

I think talk is cheap. Most players on the team say the right things about team and effort.

They aren't following through, I think it goes up and down the roster. I really think it all started when KG went down. KG playing at a top 10 level could will the team on how to play and it was his team.

Now I don't know if its his team anymore.

It better be or we (the C's) have bigger issues than injuries.  This is where knowing your role comes into play.

He does know his role, leader on the court and off.

The fact that you would dismiss his claim to that because his stats aren't good enough and he hasn't played 10 years in the league doesn't change that.

Well then he's mistaken and the C's are worse off for it.

You just said that you never said he wasen't a leader. now you again flippantly dismiss any notion that he is and say that such a notion is foolish and the C's are worse for it.

If you think he's a bad leader, which i think this and quotes in the rest of this thread allude to, stick by it. It's fine to not think rondo is a leader, even though some like me will disagree with you.

 but don't try to have it both ways, he can't be a leader and then be an foolish for trying to be a leader. That makes no sense and is a stance that can't be reconciled.

I took short cuts because I assumed you followed that I was differentiating a leader on the court and off the court.  Besides my complaint was his comments to the media.  Let the vets take care of that it's not necessary for Rondo to comment on other players.

see that's a more understandable stance. I don't think that you can be a on the court leader and hide from tough questions and leadership questions off the court. It's one and the same. To be a leader for a team means in all area's.

But now I understand a bit better where your coming from, and that you differentiate between on the court leaders and off the court leaders. I don't agree but that's an opinion i can reconcile with the two statements a bit better.

[cornbreadsmart]

so pretty much everyone agrees rasheed does not give his all. how i this acceptable?? i keep hearing "we knew what we were getting." really?? i'm a sucker because no way did i believe he would continue to let his teammates down and put himself first. you can't have it both ways. if you are not giving your all then you are selfish ,period. Is there really another side to the argument? sadly, i think rasheed is someone who needs to be publicly embarassed to get him to change. he SHOULD be singled out if he is dogging it.

[crownsy]

so pretty much everyone agrees rasheed does not give his all. how i this acceptable?? i keep hearing "we knew what we were getting." really?? i'm a sucker because no way did i believe he would continue to let his teammates down and put himself first. you can't have it both ways. if you are not giving your all then you are selfish ,period. Is there really another side to the argument? sadly, i think rasheed is someone who needs to be publicly embarassed to get him to change. he SHOULD be singled out if he is dogging it.

We are not talking about a two year player. the man is 35 years old.

Every tactic has been tried, when you sign wallace, you are getting a guy that typically goes 110% in playoffs/ big time games but goes significantly less when he can't get amped up for the game.

It's whats going to keep him from any HOF discussions, I doubt someone pointing it out at this late venture is going to do any good.

[BballTim]

I don't think anyone other than KG, Paul, or Doc should be commenting on the team to the media.  I would have added Ray except for the fact with his diminishing skills it's probably best that he stay quiet as well.  I just don't think Rondo has the weight (cache) in the league to have a positive effect with these types of comments.  I can seem them having negative effect though.

Also in regards to Doc's comments about leadership.  I succinctly remember him mentioning RR should do a bit more listening an tad less talking. 

  If you're looking for a leader that's going to call players out KG might be it but I don't think Paul ever has been that type of leader. Besides, at this point, it's as much Rondo's team as anyone else's.

[Onslaught]

I am glad SOMEONE on the team is standing up and having questions.  I don't care how young rondo is he is a LEADER.  Rajon is doing a good job of publicly calling out his teammate(s) without naming them.  I assume anyone associated with the team knows exactly who he is referring to but the public doesn't get to know that rondo is miffed at mr. (fill in blank)
I'm guessing its rasheed, eddie and davis , one or all

Completely against ubuntu but, that was 2 years ago mang.. amiright?

It's not against ubuntu. Ubuntu is about working as one cohesive unit, which that team had down to a science.

It doesn't follow that unbuntu advocate turning a blind eye to players not doing that and pretending there conduct doesn't exist as a form of self deception.

Who are the players?

I don't know, rondo, paul and ray didn't throw anyone under the bus.

But if you wanted my admittedly uninformed opinion of who don't give 100% or play as part of the team concept (particularly on defense) every night for the good of the team that they might be hinting at, it goes:

Sheed, by far
Eddie
Baby

I'm with you on this. I just feel that Sheed and Baby are somehow a part of all this.

[Fafnir]

Besides, at this point, it's as much Rondo's team as anyone else's.

I think thats the problem. It was KGs team, now who's is it?

[Onslaught]

Besides, at this point, it's as much Rondo's team as anyone else's.

I think thats the problem. It was KGs team, now who's is it?

It was? I always thought it was PP team.