Play Shelden Williams

[Chris]

No.  He is not good. 

If he gives us more than BBD I am for it.

That's my perspective.  Shelden has terrible hands.  However, I'm happy with everything else I've seen.  If BBD can't produce, it doesn't hurt to give Shelden some run, sort of like how the team handled the BBD/Powe situation.  Doc should go with who is playing better.

Williams has also played significantly worse defensively than Davis has.  Yes, Williams is a better rebounder, but he can't defend inside, or out, is a horrendous offensive player, and fumbles away 2-3 balls a game.  He is a net negative, while Davis is a net positive (despite being an idiot).

[connerhenry43]

i would play him, but i would sit sheed, not BBD

[Spilling Green Dye]

Chris, I'm finding it difficult to believe we are watching the same games.  Davis has been playing great since he's been back?  Davis is a great defender?  

Glen Davis is currently playing some of the worst defense of anyone on the team.  On offense he is a zero (except for the occasional offensive rebound).

I agree with EJplaya that Davis might have more longterm upside, but Shelden was definitely more effective than Davis this year.  

Also, since when does "who Doc plays must be right" a valid argument?  You guys who think that can go ahead and stick with Telfair & Scal.. I'll take Rondo, Powe, and Gomes.

[Chris]

i would play him, but i would sit sheed, not BBD

Now, that I could get behind.  I think Sheed will be better, but over the last two games, he was in Mikki Moore territory.  I don't know if he is tired, uninterested, or both (remember, he played a lot more minutes than they expected, when KG was out), but Doc needs to get him out of there when he is not moving on either side of the ball.  

Davis on the other hand has been solid.  He hasn't been shooting like he did last year, but he has been finishing pretty well down low, and has been doing a lot of the little things (defense, offensive rebounding, setting good picks, passing) that help the team.

[Chris]

Chris, I'm finding it difficult to believe we are watching the same games.  Davis has been playing great since he's been back?  Davis is a great defender?  

Who said anything about great?  I said he has been playing better defense than Williams (and Wallace for that matter).  That is not saying much at all, since they both have been pretty terrible (well, Wallace was OK earlier in the season, but has been horrendous lately).

I think the problem is people are holding Davis to a much higher standard than Williams.  They are expecting him to be averaging 15 and 7, while if Williams comes on the court and grabs two rebounds, and only misses two defensive assignments, he is great.  Davis is a better player than Williams.  Davis has been playing better than Williams.  If you can't see that, then fine, we disagree.  But I think Doc, and everyone else on the C's will side with me on this one.

[moiso]

The thing I don't like is that Baby didn't earn Shelden's minutes.  As soon as Baby was ready, he just took right over.  And while I expect Baby to improve, he has done nothing to justify keeping all of those minutes.  Just doesn't really seem fair to Shelden.  It would be different if Baby was producing.

[jdpapa3]

The thing I don't like is that Baby didn't earn Shelden's minutes.  As soon as Baby was ready, he just took right over.  And while I expect Baby to improve, he has done nothing to justify keeping all of those minutes.  Just doesn't really seem fair to Shelden.  It would be different if Baby was producing.

See, I think it's the opposite way around. Baby earned those minutes last year and the year before with his solid play. And then Williams didn't do anything special when he actually got minutes. Don't forget: Doc was cutting out Shelden's minutes and trying to keep him on the bench even before Davis returned.

Williams' d was not hot. His rotations were not good in the least bit and his man to man d left me disappointed. He got handled inside and outside.

[moiso]

The thing I don't like is that Baby didn't earn Shelden's minutes.  As soon as Baby was ready, he just took right over.  And while I expect Baby to improve, he has done nothing to justify keeping all of those minutes.  Just doesn't really seem fair to Shelden.  It would be different if Baby was producing.

See, I think it's the opposite way around. Baby earned those minutes last year and the year before with his solid play. And then Williams didn't do anything special when he actually got minutes. Don't forget: Doc was cutting out Shelden's minutes and trying to keep him on the bench even before Davis returned.

Williams' d was not hot. His rotations were not good in the least bit and his man to man d left me disappointed. He got handled inside and outside.

I don't buy this at all.  You can't earn minutes from what you did two years ago. 

[Chris]

The thing I don't like is that Baby didn't earn Shelden's minutes.  As soon as Baby was ready, he just took right over.  And while I expect Baby to improve, he has done nothing to justify keeping all of those minutes.  Just doesn't really seem fair to Shelden.  It would be different if Baby was producing.

See, I think it's the opposite way around. Baby earned those minutes last year and the year before with his solid play. And then Williams didn't do anything special when he actually got minutes. Don't forget: Doc was cutting out Shelden's minutes and trying to keep him on the bench even before Davis returned.

Williams' d was not hot. His rotations were not good in the least bit and his man to man d left me disappointed. He got handled inside and outside.

I don't buy this at all.  You can't earn minutes from what you did two years ago. 

You are right.  But I think the point is that Davis did not "earn" the minutes, Williams lost them.  Williams started off the season well, but he consistently regressed as other teams got the book on him, and by the time Davis came back, Williams was nearly out of the rotation anyways. 

And this is the point.  Williams is not a good player.  Its fine if you don't think Davis is playing well, but Williams was playing even worse. 

[jdpapa3]

I guess that's a fundamental debate.

I'd consider that a player like Ray Allen earned his minutes before the season even started because he had a history of being good.

Glen Davis didn't do the same thing?

[moiso]

I guess that's a fundamental debate.

I'd consider that a player like Ray Allen earned his minutes before the season even started because he had a history of being good.

Glen Davis didn't do the same thing?

Ha, well Ray was here from day 1.  Anyway, right now both Davis and Williams suck, so we're in a tough position.  Not to mention Wallace.  We really need a rebounder.

[EJPLAYA]

No.  He is not good. 

If he gives us more than BBD I am for it.

That's my perspective.  Shelden has terrible hands.  However, I'm happy with everything else I've seen.  If BBD can't produce, it doesn't hurt to give Shelden some run, sort of like how the team handled the BBD/Powe situation.  Doc should go with who is playing better.

Williams has also played significantly worse defensively than Davis has.  Yes, Williams is a better rebounder, but he can't defend inside, or out, is a horrendous offensive player, and fumbles away 2-3 balls a game.  He is a net negative, while Davis is a net positive (despite being an idiot).

Another example of overstated misleading information to try and back up a point. You'd think a guy that fumbled away 2-3 balls per game would have more than .79 turnovers per game. Those would be turnovers and then his average would be somewhere in the 2.5 per game level.

As far as horrendous offensive player, the guy averaged 4 pts on 49% shooting from the floor in his 12 min. Seems to me since he is .60 better from the floor than BBD (.43) I would also argue the stats seem to contradict your statement. You can't shoot a better % from the floor, and basically the same FT% and be considered a WORSE offensive player.

So what we have here is a guy who USED to play better defense than Shelden, NEVER was a better rebounder, has a better FG %, an equal FT%, didn't break his hand on his friends face right before the season started when he should have been focusing on the season, and isn't more worried about his nickname than his big drop in level of play, that you think is a much better player than Shelden. Sounds a little like you just dislike the guy vs. owning up to the fact that HE is the one that should be out there on the floor. Championship teams play the people who DESERVE to be on the floor, not people who used to produce. Maybe that's why we really aren't in the running at this point.

[Spilling Green Dye]

No.  He is not good. 

If he gives us more than BBD I am for it.

That's my perspective.  Shelden has terrible hands.  However, I'm happy with everything else I've seen.  If BBD can't produce, it doesn't hurt to give Shelden some run, sort of like how the team handled the BBD/Powe situation.  Doc should go with who is playing better.

Williams has also played significantly worse defensively than Davis has.  Yes, Williams is a better rebounder, but he can't defend inside, or out, is a horrendous offensive player, and fumbles away 2-3 balls a game.  He is a net negative, while Davis is a net positive (despite being an idiot).

Another example of overstated misleading information to try and back up a point. You'd think a guy that fumbled away 2-3 balls per game would have more than .79 turnovers per game. Those would be turnovers and then his average would be somewhere in the 2.5 per game level.

As far as horrendous offensive player, the guy averaged 4 pts on 49% shooting from the floor in his 12 min. Seems to me since he is .60 better from the floor than BBD (.43) I would also argue the stats seem to contradict your statement. You can't shoot a better % from the floor, and basically the same FT% and be considered a WORSE offensive player.

So what we have here is a guy who USED to play better defense than Shelden, NEVER was a better rebounder, has a better FG %, an equal FT%, didn't break his hand on his friends face right before the season started when he should have been focusing on the season, and isn't more worried about his nickname than his big drop in level of play, that you think is a much better player than Shelden. Sounds a little like you just dislike the guy vs. owning up to the fact that HE is the one that should be out there on the floor. Championship teams play the people who DESERVE to be on the floor, not people who used to produce. Maybe that's why we really aren't in the running at this point.

TP to you sir for echoing my thoughts! 

At the very least I think we as fans can agree that because we are having a debate about who to play, Sheldon or Davis, we are in a bit of trouble lol.