What annoys me right now about Doc Rivers. (not a fire Doc or blame Doc thread)

[wdleehi]

What is really bothering me right now about Doc is how he is happy to just let his three 'stars' completely take over the offense in the 2nd half of the 4th quarter. 


Now this was fine two years ago.  It was OK last year.  This year, it has been horrible. 


Ray, KG and Pierce are all a little less of players then they were two years ago.  And that is fine. 

But that little bit is killing the Celtics offense.  Shots those three used to make all the time in iso are no longer falling as often. 



It is time for Doc to take control of the 4th quarter offense and make the Celtics play the offense that had been working for them that night.  If Pierce is hot, ride him.  If throwing the ball down low to KG is setting the whole offense, ram it down low.  And if it is Rondo's attacking that is opening up everything, put the ball in his hand in the fourth in attacking positions, not jumpshooting positions. 


Tonight, when the Celtics attacked, good things happened.  Yes, they were still shooting jumpers, but they were shooting jumpers against a defense that was back on their heels.  The last half of the fourth, they iso Pierce every time.  Laker's defense got off the heels and on their toes.  The Celtics offense sputtered.




So to Doc.  Take control of this team.  Take control of the 4th quarter offense.  Make your stars (and Wallace) be in spots that is best for the team, not what they think they can still do. 

[Drucci]

Seriously, I have questioned his coaching decisions for the past few games (especially on the substitutions) but now you have to wonder if he coached the same game we watched tonight. Here is what he said about it :

"We haven't been able to get timely stops to end games," said Rivers. "And that's- if anything bothers me over the turnovers and the offensive part- we've been able in the past to lean on our defense when we go cold offensively. The Atlanta game down the stretch they scored every time- and tonight. The biggest quarters over the last three games offensively, for the most part, have been the fourth quarters by the other teams."

Seriously? We didn't get stops at the end? I didn't feel like defense was the problem, the Lakers never got an easy shot and Kobe made a tough game winner on Ray (well defended).

Yet when you only score 16 points in the 4th and your team goes away from all the things that makes it successful on offense (ball movement, penetrations, extra pass, open shots), I think it's obvious that the problem is the offense.

It's been the case in all the games where we couldn't keep our lead in the 4th.

Suddenly, the team is standing, waiting for a player to go one on one, or giving the ball to each other looking scared, like they are passing a ticking bomb to their teammate.

I'm sick of the Pierce isos resulting in dumb turnovers.

Also, the pattern is now that the C's start the 4th by shooting at least three 3 pointers in a row, whether they lead or not. Fortunately Doc benched Sheed after his terrible brick but still...

It's mind-boggling to see the team playing really poor offensive basketball in the 4th and get consecutive turnovers on key possessions. And if Doc doesn't realize that it's the problem, we're in trouble.

Edit : agree with all your points, wdleehi.

Edit 2 : and what about this stat : the Lakers outscored the Celtics 18-0 in the paint in the 4th!!

[Drucci]

Should I add that we had 2 field goals in the final 9 minutes?!

Yes, Doc, nothing to do with our offense in the 4th...

[Change]

Should I add that we had 2 field goals in the final 9 minutes?!

Yes, Doc, nothing to do with our offense in the 4th...

He is blind! or Just Dumb

So to Doc.  Take control of this team.  Take control of the 4th quarter offense.  Make your stars (and Wallace) be in spots that is best for the team, not what they think they can still do. 

Doc is the biggest hypocrite ever. He has no problem yelling at young player, but I have never seen Doc confront a vet. He lets older players be and do whatever even if it hurts the team. Sheed jacking up ugly shots is a reflection on Doc Rivers. Cause he is allowing it. He needs to take ownership of this team.

[BballTim]

  Unrelated rant that I also don't want Doc fired for: his substitution patterns. That, almost by itself, is why we lost the Orlando game. He needs to stagger his subbing more and possibly have the players come out a few times for shorter breaks.

  Rondo played 37 minutes against Orlando, which is a reasonable amount. But if you consider that the 11 minutes he was out included both quarter breaks it's 25-30 minutes real time.

  So Doc starts pulling his starters and goes for a while with 0-2 starters on the floor. The team slowly loses momentum. This is especially true on the offensive end when Rondo's out. The team starts to struggle and Doc always tries to wring a couple of extra possessions out of the 2nd unit. So after the other team's on a run Doc puts back in players like Rondo and KG who have been sitting on a bench for about 15+ minutes. The team continues to struggle while they re-acclimate themselves to the game. The opponent's runs from right before the subs come out until a few minutes after them are hurting us.

[Chris]

What is really bothering me right now about Doc is how he is happy to just let his three 'stars' completely take over the offense in the 2nd half of the 4th quarter. 


Now this was fine two years ago.  It was OK last year.  This year, it has been horrible. 


Ray, KG and Pierce are all a little less of players then they were two years ago.  And that is fine. 

But that little bit is killing the Celtics offense.  Shots those three used to make all the time in iso are no longer falling as often. 



It is time for Doc to take control of the 4th quarter offense and make the Celtics play the offense that had been working for them that night.  If Pierce is hot, ride him.  If throwing the ball down low to KG is setting the whole offense, ram it down low.  And if it is Rondo's attacking that is opening up everything, put the ball in his hand in the fourth in attacking positions, not jumpshooting positions. 


Tonight, when the Celtics attacked, good things happened.  Yes, they were still shooting jumpers, but they were shooting jumpers against a defense that was back on their heels.  The last half of the fourth, they iso Pierce every time.  Laker's defense got off the heels and on their toes.  The Celtics offense sputtered.




So to Doc.  Take control of this team.  Take control of the 4th quarter offense.  Make your stars (and Wallace) be in spots that is best for the team, not what they think they can still do. 

Well said.  I have been a huge Doc supporter, and he has done a tremendous job with this team the last few years, but this team is different now, and the changes need to start from him.

[KungPoweChicken]

At least Ray Allen took the last shot. When Wallace checked in, I thought Doc was drawing up another genius play for Sheed.

[wdleehi]

At least Ray Allen took the last shot. When Wallace checked in, I thought Doc was drawing up another genius play for Sheed.

I hated that play.


If Ray was shooting like himself, fine.


But on a night he was struggling, only down by one, Lakers having no fouls to give...


Attack the basket with Pierce and KG.

[KungPoweChicken]

At least Ray Allen took the last shot. When Wallace checked in, I thought Doc was drawing up another genius play for Sheed.

I hated that play.


If Ray was shooting like himself, fine.


But on a night he was struggling, only down by one, Lakers having no fouls to give...


Attack the basket with Pierce and KG.

It was a decent look, though probably not my preference since Ray has been brutal. I would have liked to see Rondo in the game with the ball in his hands.

[wdleehi]

At least Ray Allen took the last shot. When Wallace checked in, I thought Doc was drawing up another genius play for Sheed.

I hated that play.


If Ray was shooting like himself, fine.


But on a night he was struggling, only down by one, Lakers having no fouls to give...


Attack the basket with Pierce and KG.

It was a decent look, though probably not my preference since Ray has been brutal. I would have like to see Rondo in the game with the ball in his hands.

The look is exactly the look you want a normal Ray to get when down by three or on the road down by two.


Not the look you want when at home down by one with a struggling Ray.

[KungPoweChicken]

At least Ray Allen took the last shot. When Wallace checked in, I thought Doc was drawing up another genius play for Sheed.

I hated that play.


If Ray was shooting like himself, fine.


But on a night he was struggling, only down by one, Lakers having no fouls to give...


Attack the basket with Pierce and KG.

It was a decent look, though probably not my preference since Ray has been brutal. I would have like to see Rondo in the game with the ball in his hands.

The look is exactly the look you want a normal Ray to get when down by three or on the road down by two.


Not the look you want when at home down by one with a struggling Ray.

Agreed. That's why I would have liked to have seen the ball in Rondo's hands. But, unless we got a layup, like Pierce said, he would take an open look from Ray Allen 10 times out of 10.

[scoop]

I didn't see that happening. Only in the last 3 possessions or so the offence went to Pierce, because at that point you need someone able to create and shot off-the-dribble to have the ball on his hands. But what was the difference between the offence in 90% of the 4th quarter and the one in the 1st quarter? Basically none.

[scoop]

  Unrelated rant that I also don't want Doc fired for: his substitution patterns. That, almost by itself, is why we lost the Orlando game. He needs to stagger his subbing more and possibly have the players come out a few times for shorter breaks.

  Rondo played 37 minutes against Orlando, which is a reasonable amount. But if you consider that the 11 minutes he was out included both quarter breaks it's 25-30 minutes real time.

  So Doc starts pulling his starters and goes for a while with 0-2 starters on the floor. The team slowly loses momentum. This is especially true on the offensive end when Rondo's out. The team starts to struggle and Doc always tries to wring a couple of extra possessions out of the 2nd unit. So after the other team's on a run Doc puts back in players like Rondo and KG who have been sitting on a bench for about 15+ minutes. The team continues to struggle while they re-acclimate themselves to the game. The opponent's runs from right before the subs come out until a few minutes after them are hurting us.

Generally, the offense works better with Rondo on the bench, unless the other team just gives away full control of the tempo.

[BballTim]

  Unrelated rant that I also don't want Doc fired for: his substitution patterns. That, almost by itself, is why we lost the Orlando game. He needs to stagger his subbing more and possibly have the players come out a few times for shorter breaks.

  Rondo played 37 minutes against Orlando, which is a reasonable amount. But if you consider that the 11 minutes he was out included both quarter breaks it's 25-30 minutes real time.

  So Doc starts pulling his starters and goes for a while with 0-2 starters on the floor. The team slowly loses momentum. This is especially true on the offensive end when Rondo's out. The team starts to struggle and Doc always tries to wring a couple of extra possessions out of the 2nd unit. So after the other team's on a run Doc puts back in players like Rondo and KG who have been sitting on a bench for about 15+ minutes. The team continues to struggle while they re-acclimate themselves to the game. The opponent's runs from right before the subs come out until a few minutes after them are hurting us.

Generally, the offense works better with Rondo on the bench, unless the other team just gives away full control of the tempo.

  Generally the longer Rondo's out the worse the offense gets.

[ejk3489]

  Unrelated rant that I also don't want Doc fired for: his substitution patterns. That, almost by itself, is why we lost the Orlando game. He needs to stagger his subbing more and possibly have the players come out a few times for shorter breaks.

  Rondo played 37 minutes against Orlando, which is a reasonable amount. But if you consider that the 11 minutes he was out included both quarter breaks it's 25-30 minutes real time.

  So Doc starts pulling his starters and goes for a while with 0-2 starters on the floor. The team slowly loses momentum. This is especially true on the offensive end when Rondo's out. The team starts to struggle and Doc always tries to wring a couple of extra possessions out of the 2nd unit. So after the other team's on a run Doc puts back in players like Rondo and KG who have been sitting on a bench for about 15+ minutes. The team continues to struggle while they re-acclimate themselves to the game. The opponent's runs from right before the subs come out until a few minutes after them are hurting us.

Generally, the offense works better with Rondo on the bench, unless the other team just gives away full control of the tempo.

Our offense looks absolutley horrible when Rondo is out...that's why he's been playing 40+ minutes in 8 of the last 12 games. Doc has no other point guard on the bench to go to.