I'm Tired of the Ray Allen hate....

[mmbaby]

I meant to say I agree with you Fanofgreen on this fanpost.

[vinnie]

I just find these threads unbelievable sometimes. I don't think I have read one sane person here ever posting that they "hate" Ray. I have read many suggesting that now might be the right time to trade him, that his skills are declining, that his defense is not good, etc., but I never see anyone post that the HATE Ray Allen. Fans should be able to make trade suggestions and comment on a players skills without being charged with hating the player.

[wdleehi]

I am tired of reading all of this Ray Allen hatred and bashing.

I dont understand how people are surprised or upset at the fact that Ray Allen, the teams oldest  player is declining.

But thats not the main reason I'm making this post.

This post is more about Ray Allen in decline skill wise (although he is still better than many guards in the league) however he is not declining in minutes.

Ray's record of when it comes to playing less than 35 minutes a game since christmas is: 2-15!!!

Since christmas, Ray has only played in 2 games where he didn't log over 35 minutes. over the past 17 games!!!!!

Clearly Ray is not the problem, the problem is the reason he can't get more rest. People should not be blaming and faulting Ray, when he is having to average 37 minutes a game, and over the past 17 games the averages is probably closer to 39 minutes, and he is our OLDEST player.

The fact that he is the only one who has been healthy enough to play in all of the games, seems to be the reason he seems to be receiving so much hate from people. he sticks out because he is the only healthy player on the roster.(physically and mentally)

We need a Bench, and we can improve the bench, without screwing up the chemistry of the starters.

I've been saying for the longest: Sign Sean Williams-(would bring more to the table than Scal & Baby) he is a defensive  young athletic player, with the MINDSET and understanding of the fact that he is not an offensive player but a defensive player. A very very rare trait in young players.
 
Get Keyon Dooling.(we would then be like rest of the League, by have more than 1 pg on the roster)

Get Sasha Pavlovic or CJ Miles.

You summed up perfectly why posters are thinking about trading Ray.


Not because posters "hate" Ray (I hate when fans drop to the level of labeling anyone who isn't a huge fan as "haters")


It's because Ray is at the end of his career.  Right now, Ray has he highest trade value for the Celtics he is going to have.  18 million expiring contract with a player you can sell to your fans as an "upgrade". 


Fans are natural to wonder what they can get in a trade for a player that has spent most of his career away from the Celtics (unlike a Paul Pierce)

I understand that Ray's expiring contract and his relative decline at age 34 explain all threads and suggestions about trading him.

However you can't deny that Ray always takes the blame when we lose (and even we win), and it's been the case since he's been a Celtic so his expiring contract is not an "excuse".

For whatever reason people have a tendency to blame Ray for everything while often keeping mute about Pierce or KG when they do play badly.

Look long enough, you see everyone get blamed.


Doc
Wallace
TA
House
Scali
Perk
Pierce
KG
Powe



All have been blamed on this site recently.  You only have to look.

[Who]

I just find these threads unbelievable sometimes. I don't think I have read one sane person here ever posting that they "hate" Ray. I have read many suggesting that now might be the right time to trade him, that his skills are declining, that his defense is not good, etc., but I never see anyone post that the HATE Ray Allen. Fans should be able to make trade suggestions and comment on a players skills without being charged with hating the player.

Agreed

[Drucci]

I am tired of reading all of this Ray Allen hatred and bashing.

I dont understand how people are surprised or upset at the fact that Ray Allen, the teams oldest  player is declining.

But thats not the main reason I'm making this post.

This post is more about Ray Allen in decline skill wise (although he is still better than many guards in the league) however he is not declining in minutes.

Ray's record of when it comes to playing less than 35 minutes a game since christmas is: 2-15!!!

Since christmas, Ray has only played in 2 games where he didn't log over 35 minutes. over the past 17 games!!!!!

Clearly Ray is not the problem, the problem is the reason he can't get more rest. People should not be blaming and faulting Ray, when he is having to average 37 minutes a game, and over the past 17 games the averages is probably closer to 39 minutes, and he is our OLDEST player.

The fact that he is the only one who has been healthy enough to play in all of the games, seems to be the reason he seems to be receiving so much hate from people. he sticks out because he is the only healthy player on the roster.(physically and mentally)

We need a Bench, and we can improve the bench, without screwing up the chemistry of the starters.

I've been saying for the longest: Sign Sean Williams-(would bring more to the table than Scal & Baby) he is a defensive  young athletic player, with the MINDSET and understanding of the fact that he is not an offensive player but a defensive player. A very very rare trait in young players.
 
Get Keyon Dooling.(we would then be like rest of the League, by have more than 1 pg on the roster)

Get Sasha Pavlovic or CJ Miles.

You summed up perfectly why posters are thinking about trading Ray.


Not because posters "hate" Ray (I hate when fans drop to the level of labeling anyone who isn't a huge fan as "haters")


It's because Ray is at the end of his career.  Right now, Ray has he highest trade value for the Celtics he is going to have.  18 million expiring contract with a player you can sell to your fans as an "upgrade". 


Fans are natural to wonder what they can get in a trade for a player that has spent most of his career away from the Celtics (unlike a Paul Pierce)

I understand that Ray's expiring contract and his relative decline at age 34 explain all threads and suggestions about trading him.

However you can't deny that Ray always takes the blame when we lose (and even we win), and it's been the case since he's been a Celtic so his expiring contract is not an "excuse".

For whatever reason people have a tendency to blame Ray for everything while often keeping mute about Pierce or KG when they do play badly.

Look long enough, you see everyone get blamed.


Doc
Wallace
TA
House
Scali
Perk
Pierce
KG
Powe



All have been blamed on this site recently.  You only have to look.

I know every player has been blamed, but my point was/is that Ray always gets the blame, and on a regular basis, while other players are often "immune" to criticism or at least not in the same proportion. For example, Pierce really has to have 5 games in a row where he sucks to be criticized while one poor or average game by Ray will ensure him some threads about the fact that he sucks, is too old, etc.

I'm not saying than fans "hate" Ray Allen but it is obvious that Ray is the player on the team that gets cricitized the most and on a regular basis.

[moiso]

Maybe Ray is under more scrutiny because he is the most tradeable.

[GreenFaith1819]

Maybe Ray is under more scrutiny because he is the most tradeable.

Good Point...that may be the underlying issue with him.

And the sad thing as far as his minutes is that he still have to play a lot - at least until Marquis gets back.

The Marquis injury has hurt us more than anything else. The man subbed for Rajon, Ray and Pierce - and we haven't had that kind of substitution since he went down, with exception of maybe TA.

[Chief]

You are either for trading a 34 year old's $18 million expiring contract or not. I don't think it is anything personal against Ray. We will be having these same discussions about Paul and KG in the next couple of years.

[Drucci]

I understand that Ray's expiring makes him more "expendable" and explains all these "trade Ray" threads, but, once again, like I said, Ray has always been the scapegoat ever since he's a Celtic, the "bash Ray Allen" threads were there two years ago and last season too.

[PLamb]

I really don't look at Ray Allen trade posts as Ray Allen hate so much as I do Celtic love

This is Celticsblog not RayAllenblog

People who propose Ray Allen trades, or heck, really any trade, I believe are doing it out of a love for the Celtics and a desire that if the trade were to happen, the Celtics would get better

It's why every time someone posts a trade you usually see the words "Why for the Celtics" somewhere in the post

Ray is an asset to this team but it is not just as a player

It is as a valuable trading piece because of his still very good NBA skills and tremendous expiring contract

I think is quite easy to see that trading him is nopt a simple black and white issue and that good reasoning can be made for both keeping him and trading him away

As for the minutes issue brought up by the original poster aI want to point out a little stat

In games where Ray has played 35 or more minutes he is shooting 57 for 160 from three or has a 3PT% of 35.6%

In Games where Ray has played less than 35 minutes he is shooting 17 for 52 from three or has a 3PT% of 32.7%

Goes to show that playing Ray less minutes isn't necessarily going to fix one of the areas that appears to be declining, his three point shooting

Though I do agree, playing all the starters, except maybe Perkins, less is a good thing and that the bench has been a huge disappointment this year

Eddie - bad season
Wallace - horrid three point shooting and decision to constantly take that shot and an obvious distaste for hustling on the defensive boards
Davis - injured and showing his shot is way off again
Williams - very limited with bad hands and mediocre defense at best on his best nights
Scal - his worst year in Green
Daniels - injured and not as large a factor as I thought he was going to be
Tony Allen - one of the few bench guys pulling his own weight
Young guys - just not NBA players

[wdleehi]

I understand that Ray's expiring makes him more "expendable" and explains all these "trade Ray" threads, but, once again, like I said, Ray has always been the scapegoat ever since he's a Celtic, the "bash Ray Allen" threads were there two years ago and last season too.

Yet on the first page of this forum, you can find a thread that blames Rondo, Wallace, Doc and Davis. 

The next page has a blame KG and blame age.


It took to the 4th page to find, "Stop the Ray bashing already!"



Where is all this over the top Ray bashing?  Where is the 'hate' threads?

Where is the "blame Ray" thread?

[moiso]

In regards to this whole thread, I don't really see much Ray "hate".  I don't see people saying he sucks and he's an idiot like we see with TA, Baby, Sheed.  It's just a fact that he's getting older, declining a little bit, and probably playing too many minutes.  Who can hate Ray?

[bopna]

We Bash Ray because he needs to step up his game, he is under full scrutiny now and because he has this asset that we can use, the trade discussions will continue to pop up until Ray proves otherwise.

I love the Celtics and becuase of that, I have bashed PP, KG and even Rondo if they don't play well. The Suggestions of trading Ray is logical to some because he just does not cut it sometimes for a SG who plays starter minutes yet he continues to hurt the team with his turnovers and declining skillsets which are quite obvious coz if they are not, none of these trade Ray threads would exists. Instead, People would be clamouring for Danny to extend him or saying something like what on earth is Danny waiting for, he should have offered Ray an extension by now because Ray is that good.

I certainly also praise Ray whenever he plays well, I love the guy and will always remember him is an integral part of banner 17...But I have also moved on and will continue to support any move that Danny makes in order to make this team competitive and if it happens to involve Ray in a trade then so be it.

[More Banners]

For some reason, I feel I need to add that Ray's trade value is almost universally overrated here on CB.  At his age, no team wants to trade for him for what he can add on the court.  To other teams, he represents nothing more than an expiring contract.  It is a very, very rare occasion when a team will dump a young proven star in a straight salary dump.  Very rare.  I'm not sure of any examples of when it actuallly happened, to be honest; there are always other pieces involved, prospects or picks.

So...I think that even some of the outrageous trade ideas posted here involving Ray are so ridiculous for the other team, laughable in the case of the Ray/Ellis trade, that they actually show love for Ray, rather than bashing.

[dasandruler]

For some reason, I feel I need to add that Ray's trade value is almost universally overrated here on CB.  At his age, no team wants to trade for him for what he can add on the court.  To other teams, he represents nothing more than an expiring contract.  It is a very, very rare occasion when a team will dump a young proven star in a straight salary dump.  Very rare.  I'm not sure of any examples of when it actuallly happened, to be honest; there are always other pieces involved, prospects or picks.

So...I think that even some of the outrageous trade ideas posted here involving Ray are so ridiculous for the other team, laughable in the case of the Ray/Ellis trade, that they actually show love for Ray, rather than bashing.

oooooouch...but IMOP truer words never spoken.  the two sides of ray allen:  the fact that a trade at this stage, with his obvious decline  probably wont get u the value your looking for....and the fact that considering all his struggles, he always gives you a decent chance for streak shooting.  while ive always liked ray ray shuttlesworth and still do....Im puzzled why he's settling for being a one trick pony when his game is more diverse than E HOUSE. he's in phenominal shape and should be more savvy with his approach at this stage <three ball not mandatory>