A Harsh Assessment of 2009-10: The Window is Closed

[vinnie]

Call me the next time league averages built against sub-par competition win an important game.

Okay?

Same thing with the mostly irrelvant +/- stat coach. I have a feeling that you and I might be from the same era!

[dlpin]

Call me the next time league averages built against sub-par competition win an important game.

Okay?

Orlando's ppg against us is the second lowest of all teams they played. Lakers' ppg against us is the second lowest of all teams played. San Antonio's ppg against us is the lowest of all team they played. Cleveland is the only team that did better against us offensively, and even then we still allowed the 9th lowest ppg against them. So you are clearly wrong. Our defense has been top notch even against top competition.

[vinnie]

Call me the next time league averages built against sub-par competition win an important game.

Okay?

Orlando's ppg against us is the second lowest of all teams they played. Lakers' ppg against us is the second lowest of all teams played. San Antonio's ppg against us is the lowest of all team they played. Cleveland is the only team that did better against us offensively, and even then we still allowed the 9th lowest ppg against them. So you are clearly wrong. Our defense has been top notch even against top competition.

Yet, the Celts are a combined 4-6 against the 4 teams you use an example. So, maybe it's not the defense but the offense that has slipped to mediocrity. That has been my belief all year.

[Rashi]

Vinnie : Sorry I just realized my last reply to you....the quoting got messed up. Anyways this is what I was trying to say to you:

Ok for starters despite us playing horrendously we still have 40 wins. Atlanta Hawks whose younger, more athletic than us, have been injury-free and have been playing up to their full potential have only one more win than us.

3 guys on the team have missed multiple games this season...and everyone else has missed one game. We were hit bad with injuries and illnesses this year and that alone put us down and ruined our chemistry.

You can clearly tell some of the guys are being cautious and they have every right to. Regular season wins aren't going to do us much in the playoffs....but a healthy KG/Pierce will.

More than a great winning record...we need our guys to be healthy and putting up one of their best performances in the post season.

I know the 41-24 record hurts a lot of us since on paper this team is great, but at the same time lets look at a fact. In 07-08 we had 66-16 record yet the Cavs with a 45-37 took us to game 7  in ECF. Actually forget Cavs...even Atlanta with a record of 35-47 took us to game 7. We could have been upset by any of the 2 but thankfully we weren't. Postseason is totally different, and with the talent and experience that the team has, I refuse to give up on them.


I am sorry that you might be getting annoyed by my posts thinking I am some blind optimist, but I am really not.

Am 19 and don't have as great knowledge of the organization as most of you; and I would easily get worked up earlier on in the season with every loss, but now am at a point where I just take in every win and loss calmly and just waiting for the Postseason to start and for once and all unfold the truth of what this team can or can't do.

[vinnie]

Rashi: I am calm about the whole thing. Just sad at the fact that the window closed as quickly as it has. I thought we would get one more year out of these guys. I am still thrilled with the 2008 championship and still believe that the moves that Danny made were the way to go.

[Rashi]

Vinnie

I agree with you...it saddens me as well to lose games that we could and should have won....but the 07-08 season is enough for me not to throw the dirt on this team.

Anyways tp.

[dlpin]

Yet, the Celts are a combined 4-6 against the 4 teams you use an example. So, maybe it's not the defense but the offense that has slipped to mediocrity. That has been my belief all year.

I am not defending the celtics. The person I quoted claimed that we aren't playing good defense and that the fact that we are statistically #1 in defense was due to games against poor teams. That is just wrong, and our defense has been solid even against the top teams. We have a serious offensive problem though, and I'll agree with you there. But, again, the problem is not defense.

[Reyquila]

Wow, Delpin, then all is well and we have nothing to worry about. We will win with Stats. We dont have to win by scoring more points that the other team. Seems its not important that we cannot beat them, as long as we keep their averages lower against us. WE wont win this year but we will have the best defense; thats all that matters. New way of looking at this season. Ill buy that. 

[GreenFaith1819]

No the window is not closed.

Me.

if you truly believe that, I admire you...

we need SEVERAL MIRACLES if the C's are to win this title...not one!!
I believe one miracle at a time can happen! more than one?? NO...

I apologize for late response..wasn't blowing you off.

I haven't even read the box score I've been so busy the last few hours..I know the Celtics lost and I haven't read the box score yet, but from the little I have heard I'm encouraged. They needed the bench to step up a little? And Varejao played above himself, too?

I was a little down at the end, but my picker-upper came from my 11 year old, who said: "Well, they have to beat us in a seven game series."

I know...he's heard me saying that all the time, but still..

Yes I still believe our window is open, until someone outs us in the playoffs.

Yes these "Big Games" can serve as statement games, but I cannot write off right now the team if they lose these games.

I certainly understand and respect those who think otherwise, and that is their right, but that is how I see the situation right now.

[slamtheking]

Yet, the Celts are a combined 4-6 against the 4 teams you use an example. So, maybe it's not the defense but the offense that has slipped to mediocrity. That has been my belief all year.

I am not defending the celtics. The person I quoted claimed that we aren't playing good defense and that the fact that we are statistically #1 in defense was due to games against poor teams. That is just wrong, and our defense has been solid even against the top teams. We have a serious offensive problem though, and I'll agree with you there. But, again, the problem is not defense.

The problem with your argument is that you are using 1-sided stats.  While it's encouraging that the C's apparently hold other teams' scoring down, you're missing an equally or more important stat---the other teams are keeping the C's scoring even lower. 

Hence, the C's lose those games regardless of the defensive statistics they may be putting up.  That's what impacts the most important statistic of all -->Won/Loss record.

[Bahku]

No the window is not closed.

Me.

if you truly believe that, I admire you...

we need SEVERAL MIRACLES if the C's are to win this title...not one!!
I believe one miracle at a time can happen! more than one?? NO...

I apologize for late response..wasn't blowing you off.

I haven't even read the box score I've been so busy the last few hours..I know the Celtics lost and I haven't read the box score yet, but from the little I have heard I'm encouraged. They needed the bench to step up a little? And Varejao played above himself, too?

I was a little down at the end, but my picker-upper came from my 11 year old, who said: "Well, they have to beat us in a seven game series."

I know...he's heard me saying that all the time, but still..

Yes I still believe our window is open, until someone outs us in the playoffs.

Yes these "Big Games" can serve as statement games, but I cannot write off right now the team if they lose these games.

I certainly understand and respect those who think otherwise, and that is their right, but that is how I see the situation right now.

Good approximation, GF, (TP). The starters scored 78, the bench 15 ... and we had 33 fouls called against us, the Cavs 19. We played a horrible game, but I saw nothing from the Cavs that was overwhelming, or that the C's couldn't handle if they were playing their best ball.

[GreenFaith1819]

No the window is not closed.

Me.

if you truly believe that, I admire you...

we need SEVERAL MIRACLES if the C's are to win this title...not one!!
I believe one miracle at a time can happen! more than one?? NO...

I apologize for late response..wasn't blowing you off.

I haven't even read the box score I've been so busy the last few hours..I know the Celtics lost and I haven't read the box score yet, but from the little I have heard I'm encouraged. They needed the bench to step up a little? And Varejao played above himself, too?

I was a little down at the end, but my picker-upper came from my 11 year old, who said: "Well, they have to beat us in a seven game series."

I know...he's heard me saying that all the time, but still..

Yes I still believe our window is open, until someone outs us in the playoffs.

Yes these "Big Games" can serve as statement games, but I cannot write off right now the team if they lose these games.

I certainly understand and respect those who think otherwise, and that is their right, but that is how I see the situation right now.

Good approximation, GF, (TP). The starters scored 78, the bench 15 ... and we had 33 fouls called against us, the Cavs 19. We played a horrible game, but I saw nothing from the Cavs that was overwhelming, or that the C's couldn't handle if they were playing their best ball.

Thanks Bahku.

[dlpin]

Wow, Delpin, then all is well and we have nothing to worry about. We will win with Stats. We dont have to win by scoring more points that the other team. Seems its not important that we cannot beat them, as long as we keep their averages lower against us. WE wont win this year but we will have the best defense; thats all that matters. New way of looking at this season. Ill buy that. 

The problem with your argument is that you are using 1-sided stats.  While it's encouraging that the C's apparently hold other teams' scoring down, you're missing an equally or more important stat---the other teams are keeping the C's scoring even lower. 

Hence, the C's lose those games regardless of the defensive statistics they may be putting up.  That's what impacts the most important statistic of all -->Won/Loss record.

Why don't the two of you read the whole thread before commenting and being snarky?

Where did I say anything that either of you imply I said? Where did I say anything about the team going to win it all, or anything being fine?

[kenmaine]

Not sure why this thread was bumped on a day when the starters played neck and neck with the best team in the NBA in the toughest arena to play.

I guess some people just want to see the glass half empty than see it half full.

I would love to see the glass even a quarter full. Please tell me why I should be optimistic right now.

Look at the +/- of the starters vs. bench today. And realize that the big 4 will get 42 minutes or so in the playoffs.

Did you feel that the starters just had no chance at all against Cleveland today? I didn't have that feeling.

Sad to say, I DID feel that the starters had no chance against Cleveland. First time I've felt that way, and it sucks.
Pierce is a shell of himself, shouldn't even be out there. Ray is either all done or he's just coasting. KG is looking slightly better, but still not himself. Rondo is awesome, but a non-shooting pg can only do so much. Perk is a mystery- he's only 25, but he's already in decline, or maybe he just isn't all that good.
 

[PosImpos]

How long before we have to face the idea that maybe the Celtics have been playing the best basketball they can realistically play given their current circumstances?

There's mounting evidence that what the Celtics have to bring to the table just isn't enough against the top teams, even when they seem to try their best despite their injuries and age issues.

I'm increasingly afraid that at some point we'll no longer be able to deny that this idea of "putting it all together and getting healthy" is nothing more than a fairy tale.