A Harsh Assessment of 2009-10: The Window is Closed

[Brickowski]

We keep digressing to discuss this guy's pet player, or that guy's pet player. What the Celtics did with Leon Powe, Shelden Williams, Bill Walker, et. al. wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Tinkering with roster spots 11-15 isn't going to fix this team's problems.

What matters is the declining play of roster spots 1-3, the inconsistent play of roster spots 4-5, and the inability of roster spots 6-10 to run a coherent offense.

This team is simply not playing good basketball. They aren't getting easy baskets and they can't stop other teams' good players.

You prepare for the playoffs by winning, not by losing. Derek Fisher made this exact point in one of the articles in today's Globe.  That's why I think they are toast.

[Kiorrik]

We keep digressing to discuss this guy's pet player, or that guy's pet player. What the Celtics did with Leon Powe, Shelden Williams, Bill Walker, et. al. wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Tinkering with roster spots 11-15 isn't going to fix this team's problems.

What matters is the declining play of roster spots 1-3, the inconsistent play of roster spots 4-5, and the inability of roster spots 6-10 to run a coherent offense.

This team is simply not playing good basketball. They aren't getting easy baskets and they can't stop other teams' good players.

You prepare for the playoffs by winning, not by losing. Derek Fisher made this exact point in one of the articles in today's Globe.  That's why I think they are toast.

Totally agree.

I'd like to add that, *if* the window is closed, it's because lack of energy, will and heart. Not because a lack of of skill.

[moiso]

We keep digressing to discuss this guy's pet player, or that guy's pet player. What the Celtics did with Leon Powe, Shelden Williams, Bill Walker, et. al. wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Tinkering with roster spots 11-15 isn't going to fix this team's problems.

What matters is the declining play of roster spots 1-3, the inconsistent play of roster spots 4-5, and the inability of roster spots 6-10 to run a coherent offense.

This team is simply not playing good basketball. They aren't getting easy baskets and they can't stop other teams' good players.

You prepare for the playoffs by winning, not by losing. Derek Fisher made this exact point in one of the articles in today's Globe.  That's why I think they are toast.

Totally agree.

I'd like to add that, *if* the window is closed, it's because lack of energy, will and heart. Not because a lack of of skill.

I agree with the energy, will, and heart quote but I'd rank health far above those three things.  KG's health has a direct correlation to those things.

[BballTim]

lol.  Anyways...

Lets be honest guys.  Nobody on this forum honestly believes this team's window is shut.  We just like being dramatic and overreacting.  It's more fun.   We all know that we have just as much a shot of winning a title as the Lakers, Cavs and Magic.  We're just going through a real rough spot.  Big deal.  We might have the best starting 5 in the league still.

And honestly even if the window IS shut... it was a fun run.  All it cost us was the Al Jefferson (underwhelming to the point his team is already considering trading him), Delonte West (love him, but the kid is insane) and Jeff Green/Yi Jianlian (meh)   We're in a fine position.   We could still flip Ray for a young star. 

  There were people who thought our window was closed the summer we traded for Ray and KG. Eventually they'll be right.

[Kiorrik]

I agree with the energy, will, and heart quote but I'd rank health far above those three things.  KG's health has a direct correlation to those things.

Granted; KG limping is not helping anyone's energy.

[BballTim]

This is one of those perspective debates that isn't resolvable.

I found - and continue to find - the idea that Danny traded value for Garnett and Allen laughable.

What Danny found were two teams ready to unload superstars for pocket change on the dollar, and he had enough dimes and nickels in his pocket to pull it off. Great drafting? Not really. Timely drafting would be more accurate.

  You find it laughable because you don't take the value of salaries and cap relief into account. It's frequently more involved than which player in a trade is better.

[PLamb]

We keep digressing to discuss this guy's pet player, or that guy's pet player. What the Celtics did with Leon Powe, Shelden Williams, Bill Walker, et. al. wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Tinkering with roster spots 11-15 isn't going to fix this team's problems.

What matters is the declining play of roster spots 1-3, the inconsistent play of roster spots 4-5, and the inability of roster spots 6-10 to run a coherent offense.

Hitting the giveth one button once again for Mr Brickowski as these two lines about the team are just brilliantly stated

Simple, concise, and they hit the mark perfectly

It's also why I think a trade is needed because 6-10 are just not a well put together bunch that needs upgrades to offset the deficiencies of 1-5

[vinnie]

Another TP for Brickowski. Hit the nail right on the head.

[BballTim]

Rondo was atrocious tonight - refusing to shoot, an absolute rally-killer with his "fiddlin' and diddlin'" as Johnny Most used to put it, totally dominated on both ends of the floor by Crawford.

  I didn't get to see much of the Hawks game but this is probably right behind KG's knee in importance. Rondo played well while Paul and KG were out and he was more of an option on the offense. He and the team need to readjust to having everyone healthy. It will take at least a few games. Rondo was hesitating to take shots that he's been taking and making with regularity. But they're also running the set where Rondo gives the ball to Paul and goes to a corner too much. Part of it's on Rondo, Part of it's on Ray and Paul and part of it's probably on Doc. But they need to get to a happy medium where Rondo's a more aggressive scorer with the big three on the floor and Paul and Ray let him run the offense more.

  The window for the Celts where Ray/Paul/KG take us to the title through sheer dominance is indeed closed. If they win the title it will be more of a Piston's type of team with a great starting five and not a superstar dominated team. This depends on KG staying on the floor and the team adjusting to the new reality.

[BballTim]

We keep digressing to discuss this guy's pet player, or that guy's pet player. What the Celtics did with Leon Powe, Shelden Williams, Bill Walker, et. al. wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Tinkering with roster spots 11-15 isn't going to fix this team's problems.

What matters is the declining play of roster spots 1-3, the inconsistent play of roster spots 4-5, and the inability of roster spots 6-10 to run a coherent offense.

  I don't think that how well players 6-10 play together is really important because they won't see time together in the playoffs. It's really how well players 6-9 fill in for the starters with other starters on the floor.

[MetroGlobe]

I think the Celtics bench can be fine once the KG issue is better.

What does this mean exactly?  How will the "KG issue" get better?  Dude, you are kidding yourself if you think he is going to ever return to the form he has played at in the past.  He is DONE.  His career is over.  He is trying to giving us one more shot this year, and trying with all his might to overcome his deficiencies. 

But we all need to come to grips with the fact that Kevin Garnett is nothing more than a role player at this point, and that he is going to retire at the end of the season.  I have no doubt whatsoever that KG will retire this summer.  Players his age do not suddenly regain their athleticism and health after sitting out for 3 weeks.  Even if we sat him out for a few more weeks before the playoffs, he will not revert back to top form.  He's going to fight the good fight this spring as we futilely attempt to win another banner.  I mean, look at the way he plays now - he can barely jump.  He doesn't rebound.  Cannot rotate from the weakside on D effectively anymore.  He runs like a crippled person.  Do you guys see the look on his face when he fails miserably to finish those alley oops?  There's not way he will want to keep coming up short for 2 more years on plays he used to routinely finish.  The mystery injury he suffered last year was something much more than just bone spurs.  I don't know what it was, but he had to take the entire summer off.  He came back for 2 or 3 strong weeks in the beginning of the season, and that was it.  That leg becomes more and more immobilized each and every game.

The fact is, we will never get past the elite teams and likely won't even make it to the finals.  Either way, this is Kevin's last year in the NBA.

[wdleehi]

I think the Celtics bench can be fine once the KG issue is better.

What does this mean exactly?  How will the "KG issue" get better?  Dude, you are kidding yourself if you think he is going to ever return to the form he has played at in the past.  He is DONE.  His career is over.  He is trying to giving us one more shot this year, and trying with all his might to overcome his deficiencies. 

But we all need to come to grips with the fact that Kevin Garnett is nothing more than a role player at this point, and that he is going to retire at the end of the season.  I have no doubt whatsoever that KG will retire this summer.  Players his age do not suddenly regain their athleticism and health after sitting out for 3 weeks.  Even if we sat him out for a few more weeks before the playoffs, he will not revert back to top form.  He's going to fight the good fight this spring as we futilely attempt to win another banner.  But we will never get past the elite teams and likely won't even make it to the finals.  Either way, this is Kevin's last year in the NBA.

Can you show me the doctor report that says "KG is done" or is this just your opinion since KG just came back from an injury and has not yet played to that level?

[Chris]

This thread is not about minutae; no silly insinuations that Bill Walker should have played tonight, no love whatsoever, frankly, for the Celtics' youth.

This is a bottom line thread: There is ONE player on the Celtics roster playing at a championship level - Paul Pierce. No one else is even close, and this club is NOWHERE NEAR championship level.

Perhaps the reality is that the great shakeup of a couple of years ago delivered all it could: One title. Because there won't be another one coming this year.

Garnett's legs aren't there. Wallace is a soft 6-11 2 guard. Allen's not getting enough touches.

And tonight is a reminder, quite frankly, of the mega-hyperbole heaped by this board on young Celtics who aren't yet at championship level. Rondo was atrocious tonight - refusing to shoot, an absolute rally-killer with his "fiddlin' and diddlin'" as Johnny Most used to put it, totally dominated on both ends of the floor by Crawford. Perkins was totally MIA. Davis=nothing. Again, WAY too many minutes for Tony Allen.

One trade isn't going to help a team with old legs and erratic youth. It'll be another playoff run like last year - no easy wins and an early exit.

This club has played without energy and without intelligence for far too long to be dismissed as a slump. The window looks closed right now.

I have not completely given up hope, but I am close.  The fact is, without a healthy KG, this team is just not championship caliber.  He changes absolutely everything.  Once he cannot play at a high level anymore, then the window is closed.  

At this point, I think the chances of the C's even having the opportunity to compete have dropped well below 50%.  If KG is healthy, and returns to at least where he was in that stretch before reinjuring his knee, then I think they can compete (although perhaps as a bit of an underdog), but if he is either injured, or playing like he is right now, then they are losing in one of the first 3 rounds, unless Danny can pull off a miracle trade.

I know, I know, KG just needs to rebuild strength.  That isn't my problem.  The problem is that knee is now, officially, injury prone.  While he is rebuilding strength, it makes it much easier for him to injure it, because he doesbn't have the strength around the knee to absorb blows/twists/etc, so things he used to just walk off, now will force him down for a few weeks.  And you can't even sit and rest him more, because his leg is not going to build up the strength where he needs it, unless he is playing basketball.

So basically, the C's are in a game of russian roulette right nowb (although there may be more spots in the gun with bullets than not).  If they are lucky enough to avoid the bullet (KG can somehow stay healthy), they can compete for at least one more title.  If not, they are done, and the window is likely shut.  And unfortunately, I don't think there is a trade out there that can really "extend the window", because without KG, the window shuts, and they probably will not have any chance of contending again until after his contract ends.

[MetroGlobe]

I think the Celtics bench can be fine once the KG issue is better.

What does this mean exactly?  How will the "KG issue" get better?  Dude, you are kidding yourself if you think he is going to ever return to the form he has played at in the past.  He is DONE.  His career is over.  He is trying to giving us one more shot this year, and trying with all his might to overcome his deficiencies. 

But we all need to come to grips with the fact that Kevin Garnett is nothing more than a role player at this point, and that he is going to retire at the end of the season.  I have no doubt whatsoever that KG will retire this summer.  Players his age do not suddenly regain their athleticism and health after sitting out for 3 weeks.  Even if we sat him out for a few more weeks before the playoffs, he will not revert back to top form.  He's going to fight the good fight this spring as we futilely attempt to win another banner.  But we will never get past the elite teams and likely won't even make it to the finals.  Either way, this is Kevin's last year in the NBA.

Can you show me the doctor report that says "KG is done" or is this just your opinion since KG just came back from an injury and has not yet played to that level?

Can you show me a precedent where a player at his age magically rehabbed a recurring injury during the season, and got back to playing at the level he was 2 years ago???!???!  When has that ever happened?  The guy can barely move.  He's giving us his all because he doesn't want to let anybody down, and he's got the heart of a true warrior.  But what we see is what we got - Kevin Garnett is done.  And will retire this summer.

[BballTim]

I think the Celtics bench can be fine once the KG issue is better.

What does this mean exactly?  How will the "KG issue" get better?  Dude, you are kidding yourself if you think he is going to ever return to the form he has played at in the past.  He is DONE.  His career is over.  He is trying to giving us one more shot this year, and trying with all his might to overcome his deficiencies. 

But we all need to come to grips with the fact that Kevin Garnett is nothing more than a role player at this point, and that he is going to retire at the end of the season.  I have no doubt whatsoever that KG will retire this summer.  Players his age do not suddenly regain their athleticism and health after sitting out for 3 weeks.  Even if we sat him out for a few more weeks before the playoffs, he will not revert back to top form.  He's going to fight the good fight this spring as we futilely attempt to win another banner.  But we will never get past the elite teams and likely won't even make it to the finals.  Either way, this is Kevin's last year in the NBA.

Can you show me the doctor report that says "KG is done" or is this just your opinion since KG just came back from an injury and has not yet played to that level?

Can you show me a precedent where a player at his age magically rehabbed a recurring injury during the season, and got back to playing at the level he was 2 years ago???!???!  When has that ever happened?  The guy can barely move.  He's giving us his all because he doesn't want to let anybody down, and he's got the heart of a true warrior.  But what we see is what we got - Kevin Garnett is done.  And will retire this summer.

  We don't need him to get back to 2008 KG to have a shot at the title. Just December 2009 KG.