A Harsh Assessment of 2009-10: The Window is Closed

[Bosstown]

The only reason the window is "shut" is because Danny has failed to get a bench...Ray, PP, KG and Rondo play WAY too many minutes the last 2 years if we had a bench we would still be in it.

OUR BENCH SUCKS! thats why the window closed...think about it the Cavs and Lakers have deep teams AND are younger then us. Theyre going to be way more fresh come playoff time while we're going to be limping to the 2nd round.

[Kiorrik]

.edit: sorry, came in on page 3, which had one, mediocre post, so forget what I said :]

[snively]

I agree with the OP.  I think this team as constituted does not have a legit shot to win the championship.  Feels much like the 88 squad.

The thing is, Danny has just 3 weeks to make a decision about whether to trade Ray for younger talent or not.  If he chooses not to, and all we have is our MLE this summer to work with, then the decline will just steepen next year.

I see this as going one of two ways; he trades our older guys expirings in the year they expire, starting with Ray this year, then PP next year, then KG in his final year.  We reload on the fly, doubtful we'll be championship timber, but we won't fall off the map and become the Nets either.  If we got good enough return on trading Ray, you'd have to say that our chances for a championship this year will not diminish at all (they already seem remote to me).

The alternative strategy is allow the decline to truly become pathetic with the thinking that to really get the great young talent, you have to be at the top of the lottery, and you only get there by being pathetic.  I doubt Danny wants to go that route.

I hope we trade the Old 3 in their expiring years.

I'm in the camp that thinks that Danny did a fine job of drafting in the positions that we drafted.  I have faith he can rebuild a championship contender too.  It'll probably take a good 5 years though.  At least he'll have big expirings in the next 3 years to jump start the process.

Fwiw, I thought we had a two or three year window given their age and mileage when we traded for these guys.  Like others, I think it was worth it, short lived though it was (we knew that when it happened).  There were really only a deluded few who thought we could extend this window 5 or 6 years.  You're only really a contender with all-star to all-nba caliber players still playing at the top of their games.  We caught the tail end of that caliber of play.  It appears over to me.  I hope Danny sees it as I do and trades Ray to jumpstart the process.

The MLE prospects aren't too bleak though.  Mike Miller would be fantastic for this team.  I like a lot of the veterans who might be available for cheap too.  Raja Bell's always been a favorite.

We're not so bad that we can't win the the Old 3, we're just not so good that we can win with a crap bench.

[Bosstown]

Also if we got Nate i'd consider us extremely lucky...see what a guy who can drop 25+ on any given night can do? ahem...Jamal Crawford. I'm personally sick of watching Eddie "One Dimensional" House chuck up bricks and Scal unable to move his fat ass to gaurd anyone. Hey Sheed, lets go to the post!

[PosImpos]

The only reason the window is "shut" is because Danny has failed to get a bench...Ray, PP, KG and Rondo play WAY too many minutes the last 2 years if we had a bench we would still be in it.

OUR BENCH SUCKS! thats why the window closed...think about it the Cavs and Lakers have deep teams AND are younger then us. Theyre going to be way more fresh come playoff time while we're going to be limping to the 2nd round.

Name the bench players on the Cavs and the Lakers that are significantly better than our bench guys.

I'll help you out:

Lakers
Lamar Odom > Rasheed Wallace
Shannon Brown > Eddie House

Cavs
??
Varejao > BBD, though I don't think he really counts as a bench player
JJ Hickson > Shelden / Scal

I think that's really it.  In truth neither the Lakers, nor the Cavs, nor the Celtics really have great benches, though there are one or two good bench players on each of the teams.

Most of the teams with really deep, young benches are younger teams with less established starting lineups...and Orlando.  

Though Orlando has so much depth that not many of their bench guys actually get a ton of time, making them less effective than they could be - for example, Brandon Bass isn't as good playing 10 minutes a game every other night as 20+ minutes a game, every game.

[Brickowski]

I don't blame the bench.  They've had their good nights too.  The reality is that the "old three" simply aren't playing the way they used to play.  Garnett isn't rebounding.  Pierce is settling for threes instead of taking it to the rack.  Ray Allen's shot stops falling after he's been in for 4-5 minutes.  Tired legs.  And they don't have the quickness to keep younger players from going right by them.

Another problem has been the unconsistency of Rondo and Perkins.  Rondo looks like the best player in the league some nights, but last night he looked like a scrub.

My biggest problem with the bench is the way Rivers uses it. I cringe whenever House and Scalabrine come into the game.  They're getting killed on the glass night after night, yet the team's second best rebounder, Shelden Williams, never gets in.   Does not compute.

So yes, as I've said before, the window is closed, and while everyone seems intent on bashing Sheed, he isn't the reason.  

[Cman]

 Tired legs.   

Thankfully, minutes are being kept down.  Oh... nevermind.

To the OP -- I really appreciate that we don't have a new "Bash Rasheed" thread.  There are only so many time you can beat a dead horse.  Your assessment is probably pretty close to reality.  Has the window closed or are the Cs going through a rough spot?  hard to say -- I haven't watched enough games this January to say with conviction either way. 

In either case, one thing to keep in mind is that Danny has shown in the past he is not afraid of taking risks.  I could easily see him trying to pull of a big (risky) trade before the deadline.  I think the team rises and falls with Garnett so if DA & co. decide that Garnett will not be himself this season, then I could see a big trade (involving Ray)with the hope that the Cs can contend next year, and then perhaps Garnett being shut down for the rest of this year.

[fanofgreen]

The only reason the window is "shut" is because Danny has failed to get a bench...Ray, PP, KG and Rondo play WAY too many minutes the last 2 years if we had a bench we would still be in it.

OUR BENCH SUCKS! thats why the window closed...think about it the Cavs and Lakers have deep teams AND are younger then us. Theyre going to be way more fresh come playoff time while we're going to be limping to the 2nd round.

completely agree

[Bosstown]

The only reason the window is "shut" is because Danny has failed to get a bench...Ray, PP, KG and Rondo play WAY too many minutes the last 2 years if we had a bench we would still be in it.

OUR BENCH SUCKS! thats why the window closed...think about it the Cavs and Lakers have deep teams AND are younger then us. Theyre going to be way more fresh come playoff time while we're going to be limping to the 2nd round.

Name the bench players on the Cavs and the Lakers that are significantly better than our bench guys.

I'll help you out:

Lakers
Lamar Odom > Rasheed Wallace
Shannon Brown > Eddie House

Cavs
??
Varejao > BBD, though I don't think he really counts as a bench player
JJ Hickson > Shelden / Scal

I think that's really it.  In truth neither the Lakers, nor the Cavs, nor the Celtics really have great benches, though there are one or two good bench players on each of the teams.

Most of the teams with really deep, young benches are younger teams with less established starting lineups...and Orlando.  

Though Orlando has so much depth that not many of their bench guys actually get a ton of time, making them less effective than they could be - for example, Brandon Bass isn't as good playing 10 minutes a game every other night as 20+ minutes a game, every game.

Well lets see they have 2 players off their bench that are SIGNIFICANTLY better then our bench players. Really the first two guys off a bench make a bench anyway...point is these guys get in and give Kobe, Lebron some sort of help. Lebron is only 25 so he's going to fresher anyway, he's averaging about 38 minutes a game right now and Kobe is as well. Our bench DOES NOT PRODUCE!

[snively]

The only reason the window is "shut" is because Danny has failed to get a bench...Ray, PP, KG and Rondo play WAY too many minutes the last 2 years if we had a bench we would still be in it.

OUR BENCH SUCKS! thats why the window closed...think about it the Cavs and Lakers have deep teams AND are younger then us. Theyre going to be way more fresh come playoff time while we're going to be limping to the 2nd round.

Name the bench players on the Cavs and the Lakers that are significantly better than our bench guys.

I'll help you out:

Lakers
Lamar Odom > Rasheed Wallace
Shannon Brown > Eddie House

Cavs
??
Varejao > BBD, though I don't think he really counts as a bench player
JJ Hickson > Shelden / Scal

I think that's really it.  In truth neither the Lakers, nor the Cavs, nor the Celtics really have great benches, though there are one or two good bench players on each of the teams.

Most of the teams with really deep, young benches are younger teams with less established starting lineups...and Orlando.  

Though Orlando has so much depth that not many of their bench guys actually get a ton of time, making them less effective than they could be - for example, Brandon Bass isn't as good playing 10 minutes a game every other night as 20+ minutes a game, every game.

Odom's an all-star quality player coming off the bench for LA.  That really blows away our bench.

The Cavs have a very nice bench.  Delonte, Jamario Moon, Ilgauskas and Varejao were all very capable starters at one point and probably could be again.  And while Gibson isn't much of a pg, he's raining in the 3s like nobody's business.

[Steve Weinman]

The only reason the window is "shut" is because Danny has failed to get a bench...Ray, PP, KG and Rondo play WAY too many minutes the last 2 years if we had a bench we would still be in it.

OUR BENCH SUCKS! thats why the window closed...think about it the Cavs and Lakers have deep teams AND are younger then us. Theyre going to be way more fresh come playoff time while we're going to be limping to the 2nd round.

Name the bench players on the Cavs and the Lakers that are significantly better than our bench guys.

Are you as excited as I am for the inevitable "LEON POWE, DANNY SHOULD HAVE RE-SIGNED HIM!!!!1!!!1!!!1" (in spite of the fact that he has yet to play a minute this season) post?

-sw

[Brickowski]

The problem that Sheed and the rest of the 2nd unit is having is that Eddie House is not a point guard.  He doesn't have the instincts.  So the offense stagnates when Rondo is not in the game. We've seen it over and over. The loss of Marquis Daniels hasn't helped either.

If the Celtics bring in a capable backup pg, the bench will start scoring. It's not the the players are bad individually.  It's a systemic problem, which, for some reason, Ainge has refused to fix.

[BASS_THUMPER]

i wont be in the chat tomorrow..but yall better be givin love to our C's cuz it will be tuff...paul cant hold kobe BUT..tony can...doc really needs to bring out the bench..u guys know they can get it done..when scal hits a 3pt..the rest of the team dont wanna look bad so they all step they game up

[CoachBo]

The only reason the window is "shut" is because Danny has failed to get a bench...Ray, PP, KG and Rondo play WAY too many minutes the last 2 years if we had a bench we would still be in it.

OUR BENCH SUCKS! thats why the window closed...think about it the Cavs and Lakers have deep teams AND are younger then us. Theyre going to be way more fresh come playoff time while we're going to be limping to the 2nd round.

Name the bench players on the Cavs and the Lakers that are significantly better than our bench guys.

Are you as excited as I am for the inevitable "LEON POWE, DANNY SHOULD HAVE RE-SIGNED HIM!!!!1!!!1!!!1" (in spite of the fact that he has yet to play a minute this season) post?

-sw

Stunned, Steve, that it hasn't come up already, along with the equally inevitable "Give Tony Allen Ray's minutes" thread.

UPDATE: Oops, it appears I was one post late with that last thought about Parachute Man.

Feet on the floor, baby. Feet on the floor.

[snively]

The problem that Sheed and the rest of the 2nd unit is having is that Eddie House is not a point guard.  He doesn't have the instincts.  So the offense stagnates when Rondo is not in the game. We've seen it over and over. The loss of Marquis Daniels hasn't helped either.

If the Celtics bring in a capable backup pg, the bench will start scoring. It's not the the players are bad individually.  It's a systemic problem, which, for some reason, Ainge has refused to fix.

You think that's the only reason Baby/Sheed/House/Scal are shooting dreadfully from the field?

I think the primary causes are that Sheed has aged poorly, Eddie has come back down to earth, Baby is doomed to be inefficient regardless of who he's playing with and Scal is Scal. 

I hope I'm wrong, but I have a hard time pinning so much on the lack of a back-up 1.