Perk Is A Turnover Machine! He's Not A Good Low Post Player!

[Who]

Agreed -- the frequency that the team is going to Perkins is bothering me too. He is just not effective enough to warrant that many touches, post ups and shot attempts.

Less is more.

I'd be curious to what his post up chart shows.

I'm guessing that he's at least as effective as most of our other options down there. Accept maybe KG.

I don't think the stats tell the story on that though.  When he gets the ball in the post, he takes way too much time, and he does not give any threat of passing.  A low post threat is not just about being able to put a move on, and score.  It is about being able to beat double teams, and use his inside scoring as a weapon to open up the rest of the offense. 

Yes, like Chris, it's the rest of the offense that bothers me rather than his scoring ratio.

Bad things just seem to happen when Perk starts getting consecutive touches down there ... other players are no longer involved in the play and the team's offense goes cold very quickly with regularity.

[Fafnir]

Agreed -- the frequency that the team is going to Perkins is bothering me too. He is just not effective enough to warrant that many touches, post ups and shot attempts.

Less is more.

I'd be curious to what his post up chart shows.

I'm guessing that he's at least as effective as most of our other options down there. Accept maybe KG.

I don't think the stats tell the story on that though.  When he gets the ball in the post, he takes way too much time, and he does not give any threat of passing.  A low post threat is not just about being able to put a move on, and score.  It is about being able to beat double teams, and use his inside scoring as a weapon to open up the rest of the offense. 

Chris I'm talking about the coaches report.

It'll say literally how often a Perk post up results in a made Celtics shot, an assist, a good shot, a bad shot, and a turnover. Not just Perk's attempts, but how the possessions end up for the C's as a whole.

I wish I had those stats, because clearly the team is making an effort to go to him more. My guess is that its more effective that a lot of staple plays we get against many matchups.

I bet the TO% is high though, thats why the don't do it late in close games.

[Evantime34]

Agreed -- the frequency that the team is going to Perkins is bothering me too. He is just not effective enough to warrant that many touches, post ups and shot attempts.

Less is more.

I'd be curious to what his post up chart shows.

I'm guessing that he's at least as effective as most of our other options down there. Accept maybe KG.

I don't think the stats tell the story on that though.  When he gets the ball in the post, he takes way too much time, and he does not give any threat of passing.  A low post threat is not just about being able to put a move on, and score.  It is about being able to beat double teams, and use his inside scoring as a weapon to open up the rest of the offense. 

Chris I'm talking about the coaches report.

It'll say literally how often a Perk post up results in a made Celtics shot, an assist, a good shot, a bad shot, and a turnover. Not just Perk's attempts, but how the possessions end up for the C's as a whole.

I wish I had those stats, because clearly the team is making an effort to go to him more. My guess is that its more effective that a lot of staple plays we get against many matchups.

I bet the TO% is high though, thats why the don't do it late in close games.

Yesterday was a perfect example of when and when not to get the ball to Perk. When he got the ball close to the basket (a possession against Villeneuva comes to mind) he scored easily. When he got the ball too far away from the basket he failed (the Maxiel strip comes to mind).
It's up to his teammates to get him the ball in the right spots as well as Perk to know when he needs to pass because he's in a bad position.

[BballTim]

Agreed -- the frequency that the team is going to Perkins is bothering me too. He is just not effective enough to warrant that many touches, post ups and shot attempts.

Less is more.

I'd be curious to what his post up chart shows.

I'm guessing that he's at least as effective as most of our other options down there. Accept maybe KG.

I don't think the stats tell the story on that though.  When he gets the ball in the post, he takes way too much time, and he does not give any threat of passing.  A low post threat is not just about being able to put a move on, and score.  It is about being able to beat double teams, and use his inside scoring as a weapon to open up the rest of the offense. 

  This is true but I think it's something that needs to be learned over time. This is the first year he's been used as a weapon in the half court. Before this year most of his points were putbacks or passes when he was wide open. How many times was he ever double teamed in the past?

[TradeProposalDude]

Perkins isn't a "bad" post player. Surely, there are bigger stiffs and duds that stand at 6'10+ who can't do anything out there.

The problem with Perk is that he has maxed out. He deserves touches, but not at the frequency he's been getting them. The Celtics have been so inefficient offensively of late that their FG % leader (as well as the NBA's) was counted upon to carry the offense last night.

Anytime that happens is a recipe for disaster, with all due respect to Perk. Perkins is what he is, and an offensive option is just not that.

So the point is: Anytime you take a good player and take him out of his role and expand it, be weary of the end result. It won't often be very pretty. Perkins is a terrific complementary, auxiliary player, but when he's relied upon as a leader on both ends of the floor, your team will have issues. For Perk, the increasing amount of autonomy the Celtics have given him is new grounds for him even though he's approaching "veteran "status." He's the type of player who needs to be utilized the correct way in exchange for desired statistical input.

[Overrated]

Perk, if you're out there, work on these two things and you'll be so much less turnover-prone.

1 - Set good picks
All you have to do is stand there, Perk. Quit throwing your body into people and moving your feet when setting a pick. Just stand there for a moment and then roll.

2 - Don't be a "black hole"
When you get the ball in the post it doesn't mean you have to shoot. You don't have to make a move either. Kick it out and make the extra pass now and then.

[BballTim]

Perkins isn't a "bad" post player. Surely, there are bigger stiffs and duds that stand at 6'10+ who can't do anything out there.

The problem with Perk is that he has maxed out. He deserves touches, but not at the frequency he's been getting them. The Celtics have been so inefficient offensively of late that their FG % leader (as well as the NBA's) was counted upon to carry the offense last night.

  I first heard that Perk had maxed out on 2007 when he was averaging 5 points and 5 boards a game. The guy's only 25. His offense has improved significantly since last year. He's not ready for a bigger role yet but we've seen far from his best.

[KungPoweChicken]

Perk is one of the worst low post players in the league. I've said this before many times, but most people on this board just laughed at me.

[BballTim]

Perk is one of the worst low post players in the league. I've said this before many times, but most people on this board just laughed at me.

  He's still mot one of the worst low post players in the league. I think you were also saying almost all his shots were uncontested. He's got a pretty high success rate going 1v1 on opposing centers.

[elcotte]

Is this a surprise?  Perk is a liability on offense when he is anything more than a 5th option.  If all you ask him to do is swing the ball at the top of the key, finish wide open layups, pound the boards, and make the occasional low-post move to keep defenses honest, then he is effective.  When you expect him to be a more integral part of the offense, then all of a sudden he becomes a liability.  That is not going to change.

Really, I think someone needs to sit Perk down, and tell him that he needs to back off a little and just do what he does best.  I think he has been trying to take it upon himself to do more when KG is out, and it has become detrimental to the team.  Get him back into his comfort-zone as a defender and last option on offense, and it will go a long way to improve things.

The main issue last night was they were giving him the ball when he was too far from the basket. That caused him to have to do too much and Maxiel exploited him.
He is improving and is now trying to do more than his comfort level.

[Rondo_is_better]

mmm....tell us all about it....

[mmbaby]

What happened to the 'Perk-Love'?
I think Perk is still one of best assets.

[moiso]

It doesn't matter if you rank our post up options as 1.KG 2.Wallace.  Perk goes down low and asks for the ball.  The other two, not so much.  Yes, the turnovers are bad and he can't pass, but Perk is far better at scoring the ball than Wallace in the low post.  Unless Sheed and KG suddenly change their styles of play after over a decade in the league, I'd keep feeding the beast.

[hpantazo]

What happened to the 'Perk-Love'?
I think Perk is still one of best assets.

Perk is a great asset, I think people are just generally frustrated at the overall team play in the last 10+ games, and Perk makes an easy target. Perk has leadership instincts and at least tries to step up when the team needs a boost, which is more than I can say for most of the other guys on the team. Anyone who suggests that they celtics should not resign him needs to consider that many teams would love to have a young center that is as solid defensively as Perk is, and he is leading the league in FG%. Now the only thing he really needs to work on is moving picks. They should work that into his next contract like the weight incentives in Glen Davis' deal.

[PosImpos]

Is this a surprise?  Perk is a liability on offense when he is anything more than a 5th option.  If all you ask him to do is swing the ball at the top of the key, finish wide open layups, pound the boards, and make the occasional low-post move to keep defenses honest, then he is effective.  When you expect him to be a more integral part of the offense, then all of a sudden he becomes a liability.  That is not going to change.

Really, I think someone needs to sit Perk down, and tell him that he needs to back off a little and just do what he does best.  I think he has been trying to take it upon himself to do more when KG is out, and it has become detrimental to the team.  Get him back into his comfort-zone as a defender and last option on offense, and it will go a long way to improve things.

Hopefully this is an area that will see huge improvement when KG returns.  Perk can be an integral part of the inside/outside game.  When the C's are at their best the ball is zipping around faster than the defense can follow it.  Perk is part of that offense, but I think (maybe hope is a better word) he knows his role better when KG is out there. 

I have no doubt that Perk will be back in form when KG returns. 

Really though, I think anyone thinking the C's should be throwing huge money at Perk after next year needs to take a look at him right now, and ask themselves...is he a player they can build a team around?

Yeah, he's certainly not a guy that you do build teams around but he's a heckuva roll player and bonafide starter in this league.  He's a complementary piece, not a primary.

Exactly.  Which is why I think the line in the sand will be drawn at role players money.  So if Perk is looking to cash in on a deal worth $9-10 million per year, he will be doing it someplace other than Boston. 

If you look at the centers around the league, we'd be lucky to have a guy of Perk's caliber for $9-10 million a year.