Has Doc Lost This Team?

[Celts17Pride]

The Big 3 are in decline. They don't have it anymore. No coach is going to change that.

If the problems were all physical, I'd agree with you.  However, there has been a clear lack of focus, that many of the players have acknowledged.  The coaching staff has to take at least some of the blame for that; the team simply hasn't been ready to play, and by his own admission, Doc hasn't made any in-game adjustments.

The problems are physical. People are in denial. Ray Allen has played pretty well the whole year and especially after the all-star break. Ray Allen has been the most healthly. KG and Pierce have been horrible. Both have had injuries. If the Big 3 can be healthly when the playoffs come then they have a chance. That's a Big IF. This has nothing to do with the coach.

KG has not been the same player he was 2 years ago. Paul Pierce is killing the Celtics right now. Pierce has been torched defensively the last 3 games by such powerhouses as Al Thornton, Carlos Delfino and last night by Rudy Gay.

People want to say that is Doc River's fault. Doc Rivers deserves some blame but the big reason is the Big 3 are not performing.

Here are some stats from Jammer on Real GM.

Since the Orlando Game on January 28

Paul Pierce: 16 Games, 13.75 ppg, 3 Rebounds/Game, 2.1 Assists/Game

Kevin Garnett: 21 Games, 13 ppg, 7.85 Rebounds/Game, 3.1 Assists/Game

Ray Allen: 20 Games, 16.9 ppg, 3.55 Rebounds/Game, 2.1 Assists/Game

That production is not Doc Rivers fault, it's former all-stars in decline.

[FatjohnReturns]

Pre 2008 The excuse for Doc was that the team was too young.
Now the reasoning is the veterans are in decline? Maybe Doc is just not a good coach?
 

[Donoghus]

Pre 2008 The excuse for Doc was that the team was too young.
Now the reasoning is the veterans are in decline? Maybe Doc is just not a good coach?
 

Well, I think its relatively safe to say that KG, Ray, Pierce, and Wallace aren't the same guys that they used to be.  This isn't 2008 anymore...

Part of the problem is Doc but he doesn't deserve all the blame by any means. 

[Roy Hobbs]

The Big 3 are in decline. They don't have it anymore. No coach is going to change that.

If the problems were all physical, I'd agree with you.  However, there has been a clear lack of focus, that many of the players have acknowledged.  The coaching staff has to take at least some of the blame for that; the team simply hasn't been ready to play, and by his own admission, Doc hasn't made any in-game adjustments.

The problems are physical. People are in denial. Ray Allen has played pretty well the whole year and especially after the all-star break. Ray Allen has been the most healthly. KG and Pierce have been horrible. Both have had injuries. If the Big 3 can be healthly when the playoffs come then they have a chance. That's a Big IF. This has nothing to do with the coach.

KG has not been the same player he was 2 years ago. Paul Pierce is killing the Celtics right now. Pierce has been torched defensively the last 3 games by such powerhouses as Al Thornton, Carlos Delfino and last night by Rudy Gay.

People want to say that is Doc River's fault. Doc Rivers deserves some blame but the big reason is the Big 3 are not performing.

Here are some stats from Jammer on Real GM.

Since the Orlando Game on January 28

Paul Pierce: 16 Games, 13.75 ppg, 3 Rebounds/Game, 2.1 Assists/Game

Kevin Garnett: 21 Games, 13 ppg, 7.85 Rebounds/Game, 3.1 Assists/Game

Ray Allen: 20 Games, 16.9 ppg, 3.55 Rebounds/Game, 2.1 Assists/Game

That production is not Doc Rivers fault, it's former all-stars in decline.

And what about the lack of production from Perk, and at times Rondo?  Is that all physical / age-related, as well?  Literally half a dozen members of the team / front office have said that the team loses focus, when there's really no incentive for them to lie.  I'm going to take that at face value.

That doesn't mean there hasn't been decline in the big three.  However, that's not the only problem with this team, and the lack of energy / focus is a huge issue right now.

[Celts17Pride]

Pre 2008 The excuse for Doc was that the team was too young.
Now the reasoning is the veterans are in decline? Maybe Doc is just not a good coach?
 

You obviously don't like Doc Rivers and want him fired. If the Big 3 don't play better then they are done.

My question to you is how is a new coach going to make the Big 3 play better?

Pierce played 30 minutes last night and got 1 rebound. Is that coaching?

[footey]

I think Doc is a very good coach, but he has his faults. He tends to be too loyal to his vets, and to be too slow to change and mix things up. 

[Tai]

Pre 2008 The excuse for Doc was that the team was too young.
Now the reasoning is the veterans are in decline? Maybe Doc is just not a good coach?
 

Curious, but when did he say that?

[Celts17Pride]

That doesn't mean there hasn't been decline in the big three.  However, that's not the only problem with this team, and the lack of energy / focus is a huge issue right now.

Lack of energy / focus is a huge issue and Doc Rivers does deserves some of the blame for that but at the end of the day the Big 3 have to perform.

Some of the blame for lack of energy / focus has to go to the players also. You think Larry Bird needed KC Jones to get him focused?

[MBunge]

The Big 3 are in decline. They don't have it anymore. No coach is going to change that.

If the problems were all physical, I'd agree with you.  However, there has been a clear lack of focus, that many of the players have acknowledged.  The coaching staff has to take at least some of the blame for that; the team simply hasn't been ready to play, and by his own admission, Doc hasn't made any in-game adjustments.

The problems are physical. People are in denial. Ray Allen has played pretty well the whole year and especially after the all-star break. Ray Allen has been the most healthly. KG and Pierce have been horrible. Both have had injuries. If the Big 3 can be healthly when the playoffs come then they have a chance. That's a Big IF. This has nothing to do with the coach.

KG has not been the same player he was 2 years ago. Paul Pierce is killing the Celtics right now. Pierce has been torched defensively the last 3 games by such powerhouses as Al Thornton, Carlos Delfino and last night by Rudy Gay.

People want to say that is Doc River's fault. Doc Rivers deserves some blame but the big reason is the Big 3 are not performing.

Here are some stats from Jammer on Real GM.

Since the Orlando Game on January 28

Paul Pierce: 16 Games, 13.75 ppg, 3 Rebounds/Game, 2.1 Assists/Game

Kevin Garnett: 21 Games, 13 ppg, 7.85 Rebounds/Game, 3.1 Assists/Game

Ray Allen: 20 Games, 16.9 ppg, 3.55 Rebounds/Game, 2.1 Assists/Game

That production is not Doc Rivers fault, it's former all-stars in decline.

The Celtics are old and banged up.  But talented, veteran teams that are old and banged up gut out wins at home and then get spanked on the road.  And when veterans players are hurt or in decline, it is the coach's job to make adjustments.  That doesn't automaticaly mean yanking struggling vets from the starting line up, but it does mean things like substituting earlier in the 1st quarter when vets aren't playing well, changing up the rotation pattern to see how different combination works and giving a chance to younger players (like BILL WALKER).

The players are responsible for a lot of the trouble on this team.  But can anyone think of anything Doc has done to try and fix what's wrong?

Mike

[FatjohnReturns]

Pre 2008 The excuse for Doc was that the team was too young.
Now the reasoning is the veterans are in decline? Maybe Doc is just not a good coach?
 

You obviously don't like Doc Rivers and want him fired. If the Big 3 don't play better then they are done.

My question to you is how is a new coach going to make the Big 3 play better?

Pierce played 30 minutes last night and got 1 rebound. Is that coaching?

No. I do like Doc Rivers. He is a class act all the way. From a coaching standpoint he is not getting the job done its obvious.

You can blame the players all you want. I read enough trade Ray thread he is done before the deadline to make me puke. I guess every player on our roster is underperforming or mabye its the coach.

[slamtheking]

It's not all on Doc but he needs to shoulder blame as well.

Is he on the court?  No.  But part of his responsibility is get the team prepared to play at their best and provide the best strategies to win.  This includes changing line-ups, plays, etc...

Will firing Doc necessarily get this team to focus?  not necessarily but it will send a message to the players that what's happening is not acceptable. 

It may not be fair to Doc in some respects but as everyone knows, it's much easier to fire the coach than it is to fire the players.  Something needs to be done to get through to the players.  If they can't win a title this year with this team under this coach, waiting until next year to address this same issue will net even less positive results.

Personally, I don't think a coaching change is enough to get this team going.  Firing Doc won't bring the cohesion or sense of purpose this team needs. 

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

Doc has lost this team because he's been giving preferential treatment to the veterans for 3 years now.  It worked when the vets were good and the young players unproven.  But now it's breaking this team apart...because things have changed.

The reason Rondo's disinterested sometimes and Perk looks like he'd rather be somewhere else is simple: they see that two sets of rules are used on this team and it urks them.  And everyone on this blog would act the same in their shoes.

If Doc wants to change something, he should quit coddling the veterans and treating everyone the same.  The vets aren't good enough to warrant preferential treatment anymore, and the young guys are actually our best, most consistent players. 

If Doc hasn't lost this team already, he will lose them if he doesn't wake up to the fact that 2010 isn't 2007.

[Mr October]

So.... for those that think replacing DOc will give us a much better team, who the heck are we going to find?

Some college coach isn't going to cut it. This team is full of old banged up dogs. Everything starts with Pierce and KG. If they dont have it, the rest of the team follows.

I'm sticking with Doc, and waiting out the real fix: health.

KG and Pierce both need to be healthy for this team to be a contender. And this team is too close to being a contender to blow it up just yet.

[RAcker]

Doc was substituting last night like he had no idea what player(s) to put on the court at any given time.  It was like, "I'll try TA" or "I'll try Perk and Sheed" or "I'll try Sheldon".  We have 19 games left in the season.  Wow.

[Celts17Pride]

Doc was substituting last night like he had no idea what player(s) to put on the court at any given time.  It was like, "I'll try TA" or "I'll try Perk and Sheed" or "I'll try Sheldon".  We have 19 games left in the season.  Wow.

He was trying to find someone who would play with a purpose. They are hard to find on this team.