Has the Cs championship window already closed?

[ssspence]

This is a perspective none of us want to believe, but from the average NBA fans point of view it is a fair question:

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/01/16/celtics-title-hopes-are-fading-fast/

For those that have seen / heard me pushing for another starting caliber NBA scorer, you know that I am of the belief that this team needs to add before it has a realistic chance to compete for a title this year. While I hope for the best, injuries are obviously an issue for this team, and I believe we must prepare for the worst.

In a separate thread the Cs cap situation (via RealGM), Roy Hobbs points out that Wyc and Co will continue to be high salery payers (including the lux tax), but are likely at their maximum in terms of total salary.

I feel that the Cs MUST be prepared to add some salary for the future this season (by trading our expirings that don't include Ray and Quis) for a player another teams needs to dump. I'll use Corey Maggette as an example (tho he is not the point): a productive NBA player who is probably slightly overpaid and therefore is available.

This month is crucial for the Cs. Wyc needs to decide whether he's prepared to pay for another NBA championship.

Of course if the Lakers trade for Bosh, we all might as well start watching Sox spring training because the rest of the league will be moot. But here's to keeping our collective fingers crossed that that doesn't happen. 

[moiso]

I think we can win it all this year with the current roster if everyone is healthy.  I realize that is a big "if" because the further into the season we go, the less healthy we become.  If Danny can upgrade House or TA, I'm all for it but I don't think it's absolutely necessary.  The tough part about it, is that the injured guys are guys that Danny wouldn't consider trading.

[Roy Hobbs]

I think we can win it all this year with the current roster if everyone is healthy. 

I agree.  I still think that this team is the best one in the league.  Obviously, we'd all like to add an impact player, but if we can't, I think the Celts will be fine.

[PLamb]

History at times has a way of repeating itself and this is not the first time the Celtics have had an aging team that was beat up and plagued with injuries

http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/sports2000/numbers/164532.html

From the article

Boston Celtics, 1968-69

You may be wondering how a Boston Celtics championship team could be considered a surprise, but the 1969 champions defied the odds. Although Boston entered the season as the defending NBA champions, all signs pointed toward the end of their dynasty. They were battered, bruised and getting old. Besides, the Los Angeles Lakers, who were defeated by the Celtics in the 1968 Finals, had acquired Wilt Chamberlain during the offseason and seemed poised to win the NBA title.

The Celtics dropped to a 48-34 record during the regular season -- 10 fewer wins than the previous season -- and finished fourth in the Eastern Division to barely qualify for the playoffs (back then, the NBA still had only two divisions and only four teams from each division qualified for the playoffs).

Boston's leader for so many years, Bill Russell, struggled with leg injuries all season, as did their high scoring guard, Sam Jones. Boston now relied on John Havlicek (21.6 ppg), and Baily Howell (19.7 ppg) to get them through most of their games. The aging Russell, meanwhile, played 77 games and averaged 9.9 points.

The Celtics' age especially began to show over the last half of the regular season in which they lost more than half of their games. To make matters seem worse, a week before the season ended, the Lakers humiliated Boston, 108-73, on national television.

When the playoffs started, the Celtics began to rekindle some of their old magic. They defeated the top seeded Philadelphia 76ers in the first round, and then eliminated the upstart New York Knicks in six games to win the Eastern Division. The Lakers, who were still led by legendary point guard Jerry West, had rolled through their Western Division opponents and were salivating at the chance to finally conquer their weakened, long-time nemesis. Now with Chamberlain added to the mix, they were ready to dethrone the champions.

The Finals began as many experts had predicted. The Lakers won the first two games with West leading the way. West had 53 points and 10 assists in Game 1 and 41 points in Game 2. As the series shifted back to Boston, the Lakers privately entertained thoughts of a series sweep. Game 3 would be the ultimate test of the Celtics' resolve and will to win.

Havlicek, who would score 34 points in the game, began Game 3 on a tear and helped the Celtics establish an early lead. Los Angeles, however, would roar back to tie the score in the third quarter when Havlicek was taken out of the game with a severely poked eye.

The final quarter was a see-saw battle in which neither team could pull away. Somehow, Havlicek returned midway through the quarter and helped lead a final offensive surge for the Celtics. With time winding down and the Celtics holding on to a slim lead, Havlicek, with his left eye shut because of the pain, drained two free throws to preserve Boston's 111-105 victory. Havlicek's one-eyed free throws may have been the defining image of the 1969 Finals, for it showed despite injuries and old age, the Celtics were still willing to endure anything to keep their championship.

In so many ways, Game 3 was a turning point in the series. If the Lakers thought that the Celtics' victory was a fluke, Boston had something else in store for them. The Celtics would take two of the next three games to tie up the series at three games apiece.

Going into Game 7, however, it was still evident that no one really believed the Celtics had a realistic chance of winning their 11th championship in 13 years. In fact, Lakers' owner Jack Kent Cooke even planned out a victory celebration after the game in which thousands of balloons were to be released from the Forum's rafters to the beat of "Happy Days are Here Again". All this accomplished, however, was to fuel the Celitcs' fire even more.

Just like in Game 3, the Celtics began to assert themselves early in Game 7. They jumped out to an early 24-12 lead by hitting eight of their first 10 shots. The Lakers, however, charged back to make the score 28-25 by the end of the first quarter. Boston would hold onto their slim lead until midway through the third quarter when the Lakers went cold for five minutes and failed to score a basket, enabling the Celtics to go up, 91-76, entering the final period.

Once the fourth quarter was underway, the Lakers, led by West again, began to slowly mount a comeback. Eventually, with a little over a minute left to play and the score now at 103-102, West was able to knock the ball loose on defense for an apparent steal. Fortunately for the Celtics, the ball bounced right to Don Nelson, who then heaved up a shot from the free-throw line. The ball hit the back of the rim, rose up a few feet, and just dropped through the net. That basket seemed to drain the life out of the Lakers, who by this time must have realized that they would again fall victim to the Celtic mystique. Boston hung on to win the game and their 11th championship, 108-106.

Winning your 11th title in 13 years hardly qualifies as a surprise, but the 1969 Celitcs overcame a great deal to win the championship. Russell still maintains to this day that the 1969 title was his favorite. It was the greatest victory for perhaps the greatest dynasty in sports history.

[clover]

Even though the C's are obviously way better than they were pre-RA and KG, a similar dynamic seems to pertain: fans want to get better by trading the end of the bench rather than players that other teams would be willing to give real value for.

If the window is closing, Danny may have to screw up his courage to make another major move (or moves) again--which I think he will do.  To me, the question is whether he waits until this off-season--which I also think he will do.  I believe Ray is playing in his last months as a Celtic.

[Who]

No, it hasn't, but I'm growing increasingly worried about the Celtics ability to be a legitimate contender next season.

[Who]

Just read the article. It's a pretty poor piece that makes way too much of minor injuries + poor stretch of form while the Celtics are short-handed.

Then there's the Rondo quote ...

Point guard Rajon Rondo was a complimentary player in 2008, but he now is being asked to carry a load. And he is probably not talented enough to make it happen.

[wdleehi]

I think if everyone of the starters are healthy come playoff time, the Celtics will be fine.


But I also think this could be the last window as is.  I think the team has to find a way to turn at least one of the three older stars into a younger star if they want to lengthen the window.

[Donoghus]

Yeah, I read that article yesterday too.

This team, when healthy, can definitely win a championship.  That's the thing holding them back right now more than anything.  

Yes, the Celtics of the late '80s had injury struggles and aging veterans also.  However, they had two teams in the NBA that were almost clearly better than them at that point.  The Detroit Pistons & Los Angelas Lakers.  Even at full health, the Celtics (after losing Bias and giving KC's coaching tendencies) probably weren't going to beat either of them.  

Right now, I don't see a team in the NBA that can beat a fully healthy Celtics squad in a 7 game series.

The problem is whether or not they'll ever get this health back.

[Fafnir]

Just read the article. It's a pretty poor piece that makes way too much of minor injuries + poor stretch of form while the Celtics are short-handed.

Then there's the Rondo quote ...

Point guard Rajon Rondo was a complimentary player in 2008, but he now is being asked to carry a load. And he is probably not talented enough to make it happen.

Good catch on that quote, now I know not to bother with the article.

I think we've got some serious concerns right now until we see KG back on the court and the C's playing well with him again.

Next year is another story, we'll need Rondo to become a consistent star I fear to contend. I'm not sure that'll happen....

[Drucci]

After seeing your quote of the article, Who, I give even less credit to it, although it raises a legitimate quesiton.

I think we can win it all this year with the current roster if everyone is healthy. 

I agree.  I still think that this team is the best one in the league.  Obviously, we'd all like to add an impact player, but if we can't, I think the Celts will be fine.

I agree with you guys, but I think this year is really the one where we have our biggest chances of winning it all. The future is way too uncertain due to age and injuries.

That's why I feel that Danny must turn our "garbage" expirings into an useful bench player if he can, even if this player is overpaid. Because that player will contribute a lot this year, and should contribute for the upcoming years.

I don't like our chances in the future, like I said : age, injuries but also free-agency this summer, I don't think we will be able to sign our "targets" with the little money at our disposal.

[Who]

But I also think this could be the last window as is.  I think the team has to find a way to turn at least one of the three older stars into a younger star if they want to lengthen the window.

I hate the idea of sending Paul Pierce away after he's spent his career here. I'd only be willing to trade Paul if it was an MVP type talent coming back.

Kevin Garnett, his contract is just too long. I'd be amazed if any trade possibilities came along this season or the next that allowed the Celtics to upgrade their talent in a Garnett based trade. 2011/12 is the earliest I think we can hope for that chance.

That player has to be Ray Allen. He's the one that has to be traded in order to keep the window open ... and if that trade doesn't happen, if that opportunity to improve isn't there, then it don't think it's likely we'll see another chance until we're at the end of the road with this group. 2012.

[wdleehi]

But I also think this could be the last window as is.  I think the team has to find a way to turn at least one of the three older stars into a younger star if they want to lengthen the window.

I hate the idea of sending Paul Pierce away after he's spent his career here. I'd only be willing to trade Paul if it was an MVP type talent coming back.

Kevin Garnett, his contract is just too long. I'd be amazed if any trade possibilities came along this season or the next that allowed the Celtics to upgrade their talent in a Garnett based trade. 2011/12 is the earliest I think we can hope for that chance.

That player has to be Ray Allen. He's the one that has to be traded in order to keep the window open ... and if that trade doesn't happen, if that opportunity to improve isn't there, then it don't think it's likely we'll see another chance until we're at the end of the road with this group. 2012.

I agree. 


But the key to any trade this season is to keep this years window just as wide open as it is now. 

[Brickowski]

I think it has closed. Sorry. I do not see the Celtics getting past a young, Athletic team like the Hawks in a 7 game playoff series.

[moiso]

If healthy, I'd expect to crush the Hawks.  And Rondo is the least of my conscerns heading into next year.  I think he will consistantly play like a star.  He pretty much already is.