The Cs should have signed Powe

[wdleehi]

How would Powe have helped last night?  Him sitting on the bench next to KG and Wallace really going to make a difference?


And when KG and Wallace are back, is Powe sitting on the bench waiting for scrap minutes along with Davis, Scali and Williams going to make a diffence?


I like Powe.  But on the Celtics, if he was to get healthy and back to the level he was playing at before being hurt (a really big IF for this season), he would be at best jocking for playtime with Baby and Scali.  (depending on matchups)

[Bahku]

Without needlessly repeating everything that's already been said, I think Leon's injury problems preclude this from being a valid argument ... we just did not have the financial luxury of having another big on the bench that wasn't seeing court-time. I loved Leon, and in fact he was a much bigger part of Banner 17 than most people give him credit for, but not signing him was the right decision, and the production we're getting now as a result backs that up.

We don't have any big men on the bench who don't see court time. We have numerous non-big men on the bench who don't see court time. Knowing Leon's unique capabilities as a post scorer (something we lack, particularly if sheed can't play in some games come spring -- he's no spring chicken, and has the biggest gut on the team) I feel it's worth asking whether he might be useful when the games count most -- in the playoffs -- when guys are worn thin from the grind of the season.

If we had useful players throughout our bench (say, quintin ross instead of jr giddens or ime udoka instead of bill walker), i might be less inclined to make this argument. but we don't. Lester never needed to be signed over leon, and had we needed to cut jr or billy to make room for a vet in order to insure best chances for a championship, it would have happened at or after the deadline anyway when the majority of their salary would've been paid, making the financial ramifications minute.

One of our biggest rivals in the EC felt it was a worthwhile risk to add leon for small money across a year and a half. Considering the problems we had without leon last playoffs, I happen to agree with them.

As fafnir points out, leon walked out of his meeting with ainge with hurt feelings. if the Cs couldn't have signed him for the same deal the Cavs did, so be it. but clearly it could've been handled better.

We don't? KG is a very important "big" who sees no court time, and until very recently, Glen Davis was another. What good would it be to have Leon sitting on the bench, too? With the recent release of Hudson, the extra room provided by NOT having signed Leon may end up getting us something very substantial not too far down the road. It just didn't make good sense ... Cleveland was a much different situation, and they felt it a worthwhile gamble, (one which hasn't panned out to this point, I might add).

[MBz]

This is an older team, we knew some injuries were going to come.  With that being said, signing Powe would have been a bad move.  Looking back it, it would have been an even dumber move with KG, Daniels, Big Baby, Piece and now Sheed all getting hurt.  Shelden Williams may not be as good as a healthy Powe, but Shelden Williams is better then Powe right now.  Ultimately if we had signed Powe, we would not have gotten Williams which definitely would be hurting this team right now with the current injuries.  Also, Powe is an unknown at this point, those knee injuries are tough to come back from.  He could have lost all explosiveness which he was left with after this surgery.  You don't know, ultimately I feel as if Ainge made the correct move.

[ssspence]

Powe would be wasting money and a roster spot right now. 

Williams and BBD are out there. They're playing right now.  We need the bodies.   Given the injury problems we have right now, we wouldn't have needed another person taking up roster space that can't see the floor.  We have enough of those already. 

I'm not suggesting having Powe at the expense of either Williams or Davis. 

What type of contract would you have offered?  Would you have picked up the qualifying offer?  In my mind, that's the only thing that would have made Powe happy; he didn't seem to have any interest in the two-year, non-guaranteed deal Danny offered.

Extending the qualifying offer wouldn't have made any sense, because not only would we have been paying Powe more money, but we also wouldn't have had protection against him leaving in free agency if he had a good season.

One year guaranteed and a team option for a second.

I've made clear that my argument is a) not about how leon could help us now (yes, I'm aware that leon is injured and can't play right now and therefore couldn't have helped us against the hawks last night -- i'm also aware that he plans to in about a month) but rather at the end of the season and in the playoffs, and b) not about removing either davis or williams from this roster, but rather dead weight players that will never play on this team as long as it has an opportunity to win a championship in 2010.

And yet seemingly every post is talking about 1) how we have injuries now and we don't need more injured players as if exchanging powe for giddens would make any kind of meaningful difference on the season to date, or removing giddens would make any difference to the remainder of the season even if powe didn't pan out, 2) that you the poster is anxious to save wyc and co a total of around $1.5mil in salary + lux tax (touching), about $500k of which they already spent on hudson, and 3) that there won't be much room for him in the rotation come playoff time because the whole team is going to be healthy. ugh.

Nick, at least you're making a business argument. I don't agree that minor transactions like this represent a clear indication of danny protecting the business side -- especially when you consider that the offer was apparently eventually made to leon anyway -- and you may lose a piece of the championship puzzle in the process, but nonetheless it's a fair argument.

[Roy Hobbs]

Powe would be wasting money and a roster spot right now. 

Williams and BBD are out there. They're playing right now.  We need the bodies.   Given the injury problems we have right now, we wouldn't have needed another person taking up roster space that can't see the floor.  We have enough of those already. 

I'm not suggesting having Powe at the expense of either Williams or Davis. 

What type of contract would you have offered?  Would you have picked up the qualifying offer?  In my mind, that's the only thing that would have made Powe happy; he didn't seem to have any interest in the two-year, non-guaranteed deal Danny offered.

Extending the qualifying offer wouldn't have made any sense, because not only would we have been paying Powe more money, but we also wouldn't have had protection against him leaving in free agency if he had a good season.

One year guaranteed and a team option for a second.

I've made clear that my argument is a) not about how leon could help us now (yes, I'm aware that leon is injured and can't play right now and therefore couldn't have helped us against the hawks last night -- i'm also aware that he plans to in about a month) but rather at the end of the season and in the playoffs, and b) not about removing either davis or williams from this roster, but rather dead weight players that will never play on this team as long as it has an opportunity to win a championship in 2010.

And yet seemingly every post is talking about 1) how we have injuries now and we don't need more injured players as if exchanging powe for giddens would make any kind of meaningful difference on the season to date, or removing giddens would make any difference to the remainder of the season even if powe didn't pan out, 2) that you the poster is anxious to save wyc and co a total of around $1.5mil in salary + lux tax (touching), about $500k of which they already spent on hudson, and 3) that there won't be much room for him in the rotation come playoff time because the whole team is going to be healthy. ugh.

Nick, at least you're making a business argument. I don't agree that minor transactions like this represent a clear indication of danny protecting the business side -- especially when you consider that the offer was apparently eventually made to feon anyway -- and you may lose a piece of the championship puzzle in the process, but nonetheless it's a fair argument.

I would have had no problem with Danny giving Powe a 2 year deal, with only the first year guaranteed.  However, it seems like the initial denial of the qualifying offer miffed Powe, to the point where he wouldn't take that deal from us.  I wish it had been presented in a better manner, and that Powe would have accepted it.   However, I'm not sure how likely that would have been.

[ssspence]

Powe would be wasting money and a roster spot right now. 

Williams and BBD are out there. They're playing right now.  We need the bodies.   Given the injury problems we have right now, we wouldn't have needed another person taking up roster space that can't see the floor.  We have enough of those already. 

I'm not suggesting having Powe at the expense of either Williams or Davis. 

What type of contract would you have offered?  Would you have picked up the qualifying offer?  In my mind, that's the only thing that would have made Powe happy; he didn't seem to have any interest in the two-year, non-guaranteed deal Danny offered.

Extending the qualifying offer wouldn't have made any sense, because not only would we have been paying Powe more money, but we also wouldn't have had protection against him leaving in free agency if he had a good season.

One year guaranteed and a team option for a second.

I've made clear that my argument is a) not about how leon could help us now (yes, I'm aware that leon is injured and can't play right now and therefore couldn't have helped us against the hawks last night -- i'm also aware that he plans to in about a month) but rather at the end of the season and in the playoffs, and b) not about removing either davis or williams from this roster, but rather dead weight players that will never play on this team as long as it has an opportunity to win a championship in 2010.

And yet seemingly every post is talking about 1) how we have injuries now and we don't need more injured players as if exchanging powe for giddens would make any kind of meaningful difference on the season to date, or removing giddens would make any difference to the remainder of the season even if powe didn't pan out, 2) that you the poster is anxious to save wyc and co a total of around $1.5mil in salary + lux tax (touching), about $500k of which they already spent on hudson, and 3) that there won't be much room for him in the rotation come playoff time because the whole team is going to be healthy. ugh.

Nick, at least you're making a business argument. I don't agree that minor transactions like this represent a clear indication of danny protecting the business side -- especially when you consider that the offer was apparently eventually made to feon anyway -- and you may lose a piece of the championship puzzle in the process, but nonetheless it's a fair argument.

I would have had no problem with Danny giving Powe a 2 year deal, with only the first year guaranteed.  However, it seems like the initial denial of the qualifying offer miffed Powe, to the point where he wouldn't take that deal from us.  I wish it had been presented in a better manner, and that Powe would have accepted it.   However, I'm not sure how likely that would have been.

agreed -- therein lies the question. if powe was willing to accept it from the cavs and not the celtics, it's very possible that his wounded pride would have prohibited us getting him. but leon -- who by all accounts and a genuine and loyal guy -- reacted very strongly to that first meeting. you have to wonder whether the Cs have any regrets about how they approached that meeting, or if leon's reaction was just the natural course for a young kid who put his health on the line for his team. my guess is it's somewhere in between, and the Cs could have taken better steps to the 1+1 year conclusion.

[RAcker]

It's funny, but everytime we struggle as a team, even if not at Powe's position, this thread pops back up.   

[Bankshot]

It's funny, but everytime we struggle as a team, even if not at Powe's position, this thread pops back up.   

Exactly. And an injured Powe wouldn't have helped the situation anyway. Go figure.

[BballTim]

I've made clear that my argument is a) not about how leon could help us now (yes, I'm aware that leon is injured and can't play right now and therefore couldn't have helped us against the hawks last night -- i'm also aware that he plans to in about a month) but rather at the end of the season and in the playoffs,

  But are you also aware that the odds of his knee being in the same shape it was pre-injury before next season is underway is low?

[nickagneta]

Nick, at least you're making a business argument. I don't agree that minor transactions like this represent a clear indication of danny protecting the business side -- especially when you consider that the offer was apparently eventually made to leon anyway -- and you may lose a piece of the championship puzzle in the process, but nonetheless it's a fair argument.

Well we are talking about $4 million which the team would have no guarantee of getting any value whatsoever out of. I don't think that's a minor transaction. I think at this point every dollar the budget goes up or the team shells out is money they are seriously against spending. I think they have reached their max budget, maybe even surpassed it this year.

For that reason if Powe was signed, Williams would never have been signed. There were only so many big man slots this team was going to carry and 6 was it. Giddens was staying no matter what because he plays a different position and at the time of the Powe negotiations, there was still hope that he and Walker would contribute this year.

So business wise Danny had to look at hoping Perk, Scal, Baby and Sheed could hold down the fort if KG went down. Not only did KG go down but baby and now Sheed has gone down as well. Subtracting Williams from this year's team would have been disastrous. KG and Rasheed and Perks minutes would have been much higher, KG might have gone down even sooner, and possibly the team would have lost even more games than they did.

Sorry, I just can't agree with you here ssspence. Business wise, Danny made the 100% absolute right call, even if he lucked into that call a bit by angering Powe with his offer and having Powe turn it down.

[xmuscularghandix]

Powe's dominant low post offense would have really helped last night when the offense went stagnant. 

[Change]

Powe's dominant low post offense would have really helped last night when the offense went stagnant. 

But he's injured still.

[ssspence]

Nick, at least you're making a business argument. I don't agree that minor transactions like this represent a clear indication of danny protecting the business side -- especially when you consider that the offer was apparently eventually made to leon anyway -- and you may lose a piece of the championship puzzle in the process, but nonetheless it's a fair argument.

Well we are talking about $4 million which the team would have no guarantee of getting any value whatsoever out of. I don't think that's a minor transaction. I think at this point every dollar the budget goes up or the team shells out is money they are seriously against spending. I think they have reached their max budget, maybe even surpassed it this year.

For that reason if Powe was signed, Williams would never have been signed. There were only so many big man slots this team was going to carry and 6 was it. Giddens was staying no matter what because he plays a different position and at the time of the Powe negotiations, there was still hope that he and Walker would contribute this year.

So business wise Danny had to look at hoping Perk, Scal, Baby and Sheed could hold down the fort if KG went down. Not only did KG go down but baby and now Sheed has gone down as well. Subtracting Williams from this year's team would have been disastrous. KG and Rasheed and Perks minutes would have been much higher, KG might have gone down even sooner, and possibly the team would have lost even more games than they did.

Sorry, I just can't agree with you here ssspence. Business wise, Danny made the 100% absolute right call, even if he lucked into that call a bit by angering Powe with his offer and having Powe turn it down.

A lot of 'what ifs' but we won't know unti he returns to the court. In any case, how are you coming up with $4mil?

[Bankshot]

Powe's dominant low post offense would have really helped last night when the offense went stagnant. 

But he's injured still.

I think that was a sarcastic post.

[ssspence]

It's funny, but everytime we struggle as a team, even if not at Powe's position, this thread pops back up.   

Exactly. And an injured Powe wouldn't have helped the situation anyway. Go figure.

Helped? Helped what? When I keep making very clear that I'm not expecting his services until later in the year -- but feel it may be important for the Cs at that time -- what don't you understand?