The Cs should have signed Powe

[Bankshot]

I prefer Leon to Baby and Williams.  I understand Danny not wanting to take the risk, but I agree with sspense that it might be painful if we see Leon performing in the playoffs, while we have Giddens and Walker in uniform.

Not me.  I prefer Leon over Williams for sure, but not over Baby. Strike that, I prefer a healthy Leon over Williams.  So long as Power is injured and can't play, I prefer Williams.

[ssspence]

Yeah Ainge ended up making a great move by not signing Powe with the team's injury issues.  We couldn't have wasted a roster spot on him, it's that simple. 

This is a poor argument. We have 3 wasted roster spots -- Lester's (now empty), Giddens' and Walker's. These people do not play for the Celtics ever. You'd rather have Giddens? He's headed to Europe next year...

Yes, because Giddens can actually play if needed, Powe can't.

They have been needed in the past -- and they don't. By this argument, any healthy d-leaguer would be more useful than powe which, given what we know of doc rivers, is simply untrue.

[Bankshot]

Yeah Ainge ended up making a great move by not signing Powe with the team's injury issues.  We couldn't have wasted a roster spot on him, it's that simple. 

This is a poor argument. We have 3 wasted roster spots -- Lester's (now empty), Giddens' and Walker's. These people do not play for the Celtics ever. You'd rather have Giddens? He's headed to Europe next year...

Yes, because Giddens can actually play if needed, Powe can't.

They have been needed in the past -- and they don't. By this argument, any healthy d-leaguer would be more useful than powe which, given what we know of doc rivers, is simply untrue.

How can that be untrue when Powe can't even play? A healthy anybody is better than Powe right now.  Why is it so hard to understand that POWE CAN'T PLAY.

[Donoghus]

Powe would be wasting money and a roster spot right now. 

Williams and BBD are out there. They're playing right now.  We need the bodies.   Given the injury problems we have right now, we wouldn't have needed another person taking up roster space that can't see the floor.  We have enough of those already. 

[nickagneta]

Yeah Ainge ended up making a great move by not signing Powe with the team's injury issues.  We couldn't have wasted a roster spot on him, it's that simple. 

This is a poor argument. We have 3 wasted roster spots -- Lester's (now empty), Giddens' and Walker's. These people do not play for the Celtics ever. You'd rather have Giddens? He's headed to Europe next year...

Yes, because Giddens can actually play if needed, Powe can't.

They have been needed in the past -- and they don't. By this argument, any healthy d-leaguer would be more useful than powe which, given what we know of doc rivers, is simply untrue.

With Perk, KG, Williams, Sheed, Scal and Davis the C's have a full compliment of bigs. It would have been bad business to cut a million dollar contract that was already guaranteed and pay the luxury tax on that contract jus to hold onto a player that if he ever got healthy, when he got healthy would be fighting his way up the depth chart past six guys to get minutes.

That's bad management. The only way the C's could have allowed Leon is to never have signed Williams and Williams has obviously been needed. Danny made the right business decision regarding Powe of this team

[ssspence]

Isn't this rather premature considering Powe hasn't even hit the court yet and we have no idea how the surgery will have effected him?

Just saying that maybe we should see how his reconstructive surgery has effected him before making blanket assumptions regarding exactly what he could have done for this team this year.

Besides, I think Williams has played very well the whole season and Davis has now had two very good games in a row and 3 good games in his last 5 as he rounds into playing shape. I don't see that if all five guys we have at the bigs position are healthy and playing well come February, how Leon signing could have helped this year, especially not knowing what he can contribute given he's coming off major knee surgery.

I don't think it's premature for 2 reasons:

1) The point of my post is to speculate on Leon's potential value to the team. To say they should have signed him after he starts playing well again is obvious and pointless. What i'm saying is: if you're talking about two guys who can't play (giddens and powe), which would you rather have? I'll take the guy with the potential to play, not the d-league all-star.

2) You mention a lack of need if all 5 of our big are healthy. Well, when was the last time that happened? When was the last time the Cs entire rotation was healthy? In both cases, it was over a year ago. Assuming an old team's health is like assuming Powe can't come back from knee surgery.

Yes, if the 5 big guys we have are totally healthy and fresh, then we won't have a great need for Leon. If not, Leon could be doing for us what he may be doing for one of our likely playoff opponents this spring.

I simply don't understand the ongoing assumption that everyone is going to be fresh come springtime -- like the Cs have a plan for injuries. Haven't we learned anything from last year? Last night I watched 5 tired guys standing around looking at each other with no movement or rhythm throughout the 4th quarter. Didn't it remind you a little bit of last year's failings at the end of the season and in the playoffs?

Well, three of the guys are currently playing and playing well, one has a minor toe injury that caused him to miss his first game and will miss just a couple of days. He also is playing well, even if he's not shooting great from three point land. KG was said to have had the ability to be playing if the team really needed him to and is only taking time off to get back to 110% so that he CAN be healthy come year's end.

I happen to think the bigs will all be healthy, not 100% and not having at least some bumps and bruises because those are always going to be there, but healthy come next month.

I'm hopeful of the same. No way to know. Wouldn't hurt to have a little insurance.

Baby's got a long way to go. He seems unable to hit that elbow jumper. I believe it will come back but at his best he's playing off others, not creating his own shot -- something Leon specialized in.

[ssspence]

Yeah Ainge ended up making a great move by not signing Powe with the team's injury issues.  We couldn't have wasted a roster spot on him, it's that simple. 

This is a poor argument. We have 3 wasted roster spots -- Lester's (now empty), Giddens' and Walker's. These people do not play for the Celtics ever. You'd rather have Giddens? He's headed to Europe next year...

Yes, because Giddens can actually play if needed, Powe can't.

They have been needed in the past -- and they don't. By this argument, any healthy d-leaguer would be more useful than powe which, given what we know of doc rivers, is simply untrue.

With Perk, KG, Williams, Sheed, Scal and Davis the C's have a full compliment of bigs. It would have been bad business to cut a million dollar contract that was already guaranteed and pay the luxury tax on that contract jus to hold onto a player that if he ever got healthy, when he got healthy would be fighting his way up the depth chart past six guys to get minutes.

That's bad management. The only way the C's could have allowed Leon is to never have signed Williams and Williams has obviously been needed. Danny made the right business decision regarding Powe of this team

disagree. good management is giving yourself the best chance at success. and cutting giddens is peanuts in this scenario if the Cs do win it all, especially considering drafting him was obviously a mistake and he brings nothing to those chances...

[ssspence]

Powe would be wasting money and a roster spot right now. 

Williams and BBD are out there. They're playing right now.  We need the bodies.   Given the injury problems we have right now, we wouldn't have needed another person taking up roster space that can't see the floor.  We have enough of those already. 

I'm not suggesting having Powe at the expense of either Williams or Davis. 

[moiso]

Regardless that Powe would have to get paid for some time that he is not playing, it's playoff time that is going to matter.  If he's semi healthy there is a chance we'll miss him.

[Bankshot]

I'm just sick of all the whining about Powe.  He's with Cleveland now and not coming back to the Celtics.  He really wasn't that good to be harping on why Danny didn't re-sign him.

[Bahku]

Without needlessly repeating everything that's already been said, I think Leon's injury problems preclude this from being a valid argument ... we just did not have the financial luxury of having another big on the bench that wasn't seeing court-time. I loved Leon, and in fact he was a much bigger part of Banner 17 than most people give him credit for, but not signing him was the right decision, and the production we're getting now as a result backs that up.

[Fafnir]

I'd have been fine with the deal Powe ended up signing, but much like Ariza, Powe wanted a better contract than he ended up with. Hurt feelings led to him looking to go elsewhere.

[ssspence]

Without needlessly repeating everything that's already been said, I think Leon's injury problems preclude this from being a valid argument ... we just did not have the financial luxury of having another big on the bench that wasn't seeing court-time. I loved Leon, and in fact he was a much bigger part of Banner 17 than most people give him credit for, but not signing him was the right decision, and the production we're getting now as a result backs that up.

We don't have any big men on the bench who don't see court time. We have numerous non-big men on the bench who don't see court time. Knowing Leon's unique capabilities as a post scorer (something we lack, particularly if sheed can't play in some games come spring -- he's no spring chicken, and has the biggest gut on the team) I feel it's worth asking whether he might be useful when the games count most -- in the playoffs -- when guys are worn thin from the grind of the season.

If we had useful players throughout our bench (say, quintin ross instead of jr giddens or ime udoka instead of bill walker), i might be less inclined to make this argument. but we don't. Lester never needed to be signed over leon, and had we needed to cut jr or billy to make room for a vet in order to insure best chances for a championship, it would have happened at or after the deadline anyway when the majority of their salary would've been paid, making the financial ramifications minute.

One of our biggest rivals in the EC felt it was a worthwhile risk to add leon for small money across a year and a half. Considering the problems we had without leon last playoffs, I happen to agree with them.

As fafnir points out, leon walked out of his meeting with ainge with hurt feelings. if the Cs couldn't have signed him for the same deal the Cavs did, so be it. but clearly it could've been handled better.

[nickagneta]

Yeah Ainge ended up making a great move by not signing Powe with the team's injury issues.  We couldn't have wasted a roster spot on him, it's that simple. 

This is a poor argument. We have 3 wasted roster spots -- Lester's (now empty), Giddens' and Walker's. These people do not play for the Celtics ever. You'd rather have Giddens? He's headed to Europe next year...

Yes, because Giddens can actually play if needed, Powe can't.

They have been needed in the past -- and they don't. By this argument, any healthy d-leaguer would be more useful than powe which, given what we know of doc rivers, is simply untrue.

With Perk, KG, Williams, Sheed, Scal and Davis the C's have a full compliment of bigs. It would have been bad business to cut a million dollar contract that was already guaranteed and pay the luxury tax on that contract jus to hold onto a player that if he ever got healthy, when he got healthy would be fighting his way up the depth chart past six guys to get minutes.

That's bad management. The only way the C's could have allowed Leon is to never have signed Williams and Williams has obviously been needed. Danny made the right business decision regarding Powe of this team

disagree. good management is giving yourself the best chance at success. and cutting giddens is peanuts in this scenario if the Cs do win it all, especially considering drafting him was obviously a mistake and he brings nothing to those chances...

This is where we disagree. From a pure business management perspective this was absolutely the right move to make. Given the money that would have been sacrificed to Giddens to cut him, the money that would have been paid to Powe to employ him and the luxury tax implications of both contracts, you're talking about 4% of the salary and luxury tax payment end of the teams expenditures going towards nothing.

It is Danny's job to manage BOTH the team winning aspect of the team and the business end dollar and cents end of things and to find the proper balance to maximize both. THAT is his job and the decision with Powe was the correct one in that sense.

[Roy Hobbs]

Powe would be wasting money and a roster spot right now. 

Williams and BBD are out there. They're playing right now.  We need the bodies.   Given the injury problems we have right now, we wouldn't have needed another person taking up roster space that can't see the floor.  We have enough of those already. 

I'm not suggesting having Powe at the expense of either Williams or Davis. 

What type of contract would you have offered?  Would you have picked up the qualifying offer?  In my mind, that's the only thing that would have made Powe happy; he didn't seem to have any interest in the two-year, non-guaranteed deal Danny offered.

Extending the qualifying offer wouldn't have made any sense, because not only would we have been paying Powe more money, but we also wouldn't have had protection against him leaving in free agency if he had a good season.