Red Sox sign Adrian Beltre

[steve]

Who's to say we don't move Ellsbury and sign Holliday?  

Also I think Derek Lowe would be a great 5th starter with the defense we'll trot out there.  If you were to trade Buchholz.  

Is Ellsbury and Buchholz and prospects for Hanley Ramirez out of the realm of possibilties?  

[Donoghus]

Who's to say we don't move Ellsbury and sign Holliday?  

Also I think Derek Lowe would be a great 5th starter with the defense we'll trot out there.  If you were to trade Buchholz.  

Is Ellsbury and Buchholz and prospects for Hanley Ramirez out of the realm of possibilties?  

I don't think the Sox are going to sign Holliday.

I also think that Hanley is pretty much untouchable.  I don't believe Florida will move him.

[winsomme]

Who's to say we don't move Ellsbury and sign Holliday?  

Also I think Derek Lowe would be a great 5th starter with the defense we'll trot out there.  If you were to trade Buchholz.  

Is Ellsbury and Buchholz and prospects for Hanley Ramirez out of the realm of possibilties?  

the more i think about Ellsbury, the more I think that the only team he would really attractive to is DET (in a deal for Cabrera).

he arbitration eligible soon, right? So, wouldn't that make him not that attractive to SD and FLA?

[bucknersrevenge]

I am not a huge Beltre fan, but this is a GREAT deal.  To get him for one year is huge.  He now has a year to prove he can play, and more importantly hit, in Boston. 

This also leaves the door open for them to go after Gonzalez during the season (Beltre on a one year deal could end up being a nice part of a three-way trade), or go after Mauer next season, with less money on the books.

I agree with what you are saying in principle, but Chris, what is the incentive going to be to go after a Mauer or an A-Gon....

I just don't see Theo et al prioritizing a big middle of the lineup hitter. I honestly don't think they believe we need it.

the problem with this deal isn't really the money, but the willingness to spend the money to go in this direction (ie away from a potent lineup)

Well, I think the evidence points to the Sox highly prizing an elite middle of the lineup hitter like Mauer or AGon.  While they may not be able to pull it off, I think they will do everything they can to bring in a guy like that.

I don't know....I think the evidence is that they are now on their third attempt to replace Manny...and so far they have chosen to go the Manny-lite and Manny-liter routes.

first was Bay (who put up solid numbers but just was not feared in a way that it rippled down the rest of the lineup) then we added VMart (who again is a nice hitter, but when catching really is not the kind of presence to carry lineup) and now after moving away from Bay (and I guess Holliday) we have added Beltre and Cameron...

what exactly is the evidence of the Sox highly prizing an elite bat?

I don't think he does either. I think he values the Yankees late 90's model. The '98 team that was so dominant was 4th in the AL in HRs that year but not 1 player even reached 30 the entire year. They were 2nd in the AL in BA but only 4 regulars even hit .300. They did however manage to lead the AL in RS/game and they also led the AL in defensive efficiency. Lineup balance, pitching and defense. That's what Theo is after. A big bat is just a luxury item to him.

that might  be what he's after, but that team had at least three guys you'd rather not pitch to in Jeter, O'Neill, and Bernie...plus the hugely clutch Brosius...

also, that team didn't need to get by this Yankees team that we have to face now...

No, but that Cleveland team the Yankees beat to get to the Series was no slouch either. Manny(45HRs 145RBIs), Jim Thome(30HRs 85RBIs), Travis Fryman(28HRs, 96RBIs), David Justice(21HRs, 88RBIs), Omar Vizquel(.288, 37stls) and Kenny Lofton 12HRs, 64RBIs, 54stls) was just a nightmare to face. Lofton and Vizquel would just run you right out of your building when they weren't setting the table for Manny. And the Yankees dispatched that team pretty nicely(4-2) winning the last 3 games of that ALCS to end it.

[bucknersrevenge]

Who's to say we don't move Ellsbury and sign Holliday?  

Also I think Derek Lowe would be a great 5th starter with the defense we'll trot out there.  If you were to trade Buchholz.  

Is Ellsbury and Buchholz and prospects for Hanley Ramirez out of the realm of possibilties?  

I think Theo would LOATHE to move Jacoby. I think it would take a Pujols/Mauer-esque impact player for Theo to even consider it at this point. Theo hates moving top prospects and avoids it at all costs. Consider that the Beckett trade happened while theo was away from the team. Theo had actually told Hanley he would not move him before he left. No I don't see Ellsbury going anywhere unless he's getting a serious player in return.

[winsomme]

I am not a huge Beltre fan, but this is a GREAT deal.  To get him for one year is huge.  He now has a year to prove he can play, and more importantly hit, in Boston. 

This also leaves the door open for them to go after Gonzalez during the season (Beltre on a one year deal could end up being a nice part of a three-way trade), or go after Mauer next season, with less money on the books.

I agree with what you are saying in principle, but Chris, what is the incentive going to be to go after a Mauer or an A-Gon....

I just don't see Theo et al prioritizing a big middle of the lineup hitter. I honestly don't think they believe we need it.

the problem with this deal isn't really the money, but the willingness to spend the money to go in this direction (ie away from a potent lineup)

Well, I think the evidence points to the Sox highly prizing an elite middle of the lineup hitter like Mauer or AGon.  While they may not be able to pull it off, I think they will do everything they can to bring in a guy like that.

I don't know....I think the evidence is that they are now on their third attempt to replace Manny...and so far they have chosen to go the Manny-lite and Manny-liter routes.

first was Bay (who put up solid numbers but just was not feared in a way that it rippled down the rest of the lineup) then we added VMart (who again is a nice hitter, but when catching really is not the kind of presence to carry lineup) and now after moving away from Bay (and I guess Holliday) we have added Beltre and Cameron...

what exactly is the evidence of the Sox highly prizing an elite bat?

I don't think he does either. I think he values the Yankees late 90's model. The '98 team that was so dominant was 4th in the AL in HRs that year but not 1 player even reached 30 the entire year. They were 2nd in the AL in BA but only 4 regulars even hit .300. They did however manage to lead the AL in RS/game and they also led the AL in defensive efficiency. Lineup balance, pitching and defense. That's what Theo is after. A big bat is just a luxury item to him.

that might  be what he's after, but that team had at least three guys you'd rather not pitch to in Jeter, O'Neill, and Bernie...plus the hugely clutch Brosius...

also, that team didn't need to get by this Yankees team that we have to face now...

No, but that Cleveland team the Yankees beat to get to the Series was no slouch either. Manny(45HRs 145RBIs), Jim Thome(30HRs 85RBIs), Travis Fryman(28HRs, 96RBIs), David Justice(21HRs, 88RBIs), Omar Vizquel(.288, 37stls) and Kenny Lofton 12HRs, 64RBIs, 54stls) was just a nightmare to face. Lofton and Vizquel would just run you right out of your building when they weren't setting the table for Manny. And the Yankees dispatched that team pretty nicely(4-2) winning the last 3 games of that ALCS to end it.

true, I guess I just don't see this Sox team being anywhere near as good as that Yankees team...that team was one of the most clutch teams of all time...

plus, this current Yankees team has way more resources than CLE would ever hope to have.

still, that CLE team had a nice run there....I don't know which of the years was the hardest for CLE fans to take....their best team might have been the following year heartbreaker....

[Bahku]

I love it ... this was good news to me, and I like it more the more I think about it. As far as making a final judgement, I think a lot depends on what other moves they make, (or don't make), over the next few weeks. From where it sits now, I think he's a great fit, but the final jury's still out, for the most part.

[nickagneta]

I think the whole "fear" and "dread" aspect is a myth. I personally know a Red Sox pitcher and I can assure you that although he is just a relief pitcher, there is not a player in the league he is afraid to face or dreads facing. If anything, it is the opposite. He thrives on the challenge of having to face them and thinks when he is one there isn't anyone who can hit him.

I believe this attitude is what makes major league pitchers what they are. Did the Red Sox hit poorly in the playoffs against the Angels? Yes they did. But, I don't think it had anything to do with some supposed fear factor not being there so that the Angels pitchers could do their job better. I think it had to do with the Red Sox slumping at the wrong time. Last year's team went through extended periods of hot and cold streaks. They just happened to hit a cold streak in that series, much like Tampa Bay hit a hot streak when they hit the playoffs the year before and then went cooled off in the Series.

[Donoghus]

Do people think this team is better offensively than last year?

I'm still not sure of that.  Still some "what-ifs" out there.

[Roy Hobbs]

Do people think this team is better offensively than last year?

I'm still not sure of that.  Still some "what-ifs" out there.

I suppose they could be, with a full year of VMart, a hopefully better Papi, an upgrade at short, etc.  However, I wouldn't bank on it.

In terms of run prevention, though, they should be much better, both in terms of defense and the pitching staff.  I don't think that's enough to win in the playoffs, but in the regular season I think they'll be good enough to win the wild card again.

[Rondo2287]

Do people think this team is better offensively than last year?

I'm still not sure of that.  Still some "what-ifs" out there.

I think Vmart over V-tek is huge.  Didnt v-tek have the worst batting average in baseball over the second half?

that is far and away a bigger difference than the Bay->Cameron Downgrade. 

Also I think you upgrade offensively in Beltre and Scutaro. 

I think batting numbers may be similar for lowell and Beltre but his ability on the basepaths is hugely greater than lowells at this point.

[yall hate]

the sox will be a better team.  they will win more games.  maybe they will win 2-1 rather than 6-3 but a win is a win.

that being said, I recognize there are a lot of questions.  how will dice pitch?  which buch will show up?  will scutaro be as good as last year?  will vmart remain healthy?  will beltre rediscover his swing? etc

[Brickowski]

Beltre was a good signing for the Sox, assuming that Adrian Gonzalez was not doable. Except for the catcher, they now have a good defensive infield and outfield.  They still lack a big bat in the middle of the lineup.  Ortiz is no longer that player.

[rutzan]

Great Deal!!!

1)We signed Lackey, Cameron, Scutaro and Beltre without giving up any top prospects...that is huge!

2) This deal makes great financial sense with Cameron, Scutaro and Beltre all on 2 year deals...especially with Lowell, Ortiz and Offerman coming off the books after this year.

3) Defense and pitching wins...we have arguably the best pitching and defense in the AL

4) Total offensive drop-off will be offset by the total offensive upgrade...that is...Bay/Lowell/SS versus Cameron/Beltre/Scutaro

[nickagneta]

Do people think this team is better offensively than last year?

I'm still not sure of that.  Still some "what-ifs" out there.

I suppose they could be, with a full year of VMart, a hopefully better Papi, an upgrade at short, etc.  However, I wouldn't bank on it.

In terms of run prevention, though, they should be much better, both in terms of defense and the pitching staff.  I don't think that's enough to win in the playoffs, but in the regular season I think they'll be good enough to win the wild card again.

Exactly. Well said.