Injuries ... A Mixed Blessing In Disguise?

[Bahku]

Prospects

Tier One -- Jarameo Davidson or Roko Ukic -- incapable of being a useful rotation player + not capable of being insurance for an injured rotation player + have some potential to improve and one day become a serviceable NBA player.

Tier Two -- Kyle Weaver or Donte Greene or Taj Gibson  -- a young player who is capable of showing himself to be a borderline rotation player + good insurance for the main rotation.

Tier Three -- JJ Hickson or Darren Collison -- a good young player who is capable of being a role player, an important one, for his team if given an opportunity.

Tier Four -- Jerryd Bayless -- a very good young prospect who hasn't been given the opportunity to play yet. If given the opportunity this young player could become a key cog in his team.

Celtics Youngsters

JR Giddens + Bill Walker + Lestor Hudson are all in that first tier. They're not capable of being rotation players in the NBA. They're not capable of being good insurance for the rotation. They are all decent prospects who are capable of becoming good insurance players, and may be capable of becoming solid rotation players, in the future, but not the near future.

Playing time will bring great benefits to these players once they're able to play at a higher level and prove themselves more so out there on the court. So next year rather than this year.

Veterans

Tier One -- Martell Webster -- a veteran who hasn't been given enough of an opportunity to show his full range of skills. In this case, his talents as a scorer. The extra responsibility + touches + play calls + shot attempts are a great opportunity for this type of veteran. Also true for a defensive stopper who hasn't gotten to matchup against top offensive players consistently yet.

Tier Two -- Marcin Gortat -- a very talented bench player who is capable of a lot more but hasn't been given the minutes to show that yet. Needs an extended run in the team playing increased minutes (12-15 to 27-32 minutes).

Tier Three -- Jason Williams or Jamaal Tinsley or a Devin Brown type -- a player who formerly was a good rotation player but has had a tough time with injuries or whatnot. An opportunity could show that he still belongs in the NBA, or not, as the cases may be.

Tier Four --Aaron Brooks or a Carlos Arroyo type (Jarrett Jack) -- a playmaking perimeter player who plays much better with the ball in his hands. Spending more time on the ball instead of always having to pass off to superior players (McGrady, Artest, Yao in Brooks case) gives the role player a great opportunity to show off how good he could be if he had the ball in his hands that much.

Tier Five -- Jared Dudley -- a decent role player who needs more minutes to show that he can keep his performance up at a high level consistently in increased minutes + against superior opposition.

Celtics Veterans

Eddie House + Brian Scalabrine -- veterans who have carved out their niche in the NBA already

Rasheed Wallace -- Former All-Star who was a main player on every team he's been on for the last decade.

None of these players will benefit from increased roles. It's already clear who they are and what they're capable of. The next four are somewhat debatable but I don't think they'll benefit either:

Tony Allen + Marquis Daniels -- Veterans who have played in several different situations + given several different types of good opportunities to show their abilities. It's already clear what their respective strengths + weaknesses are and what they're capable of contributing to a team.

Shelden Williams -- a solid borderline rotation player who has serious strengths + weaknesses which dramatically alter his effectiveness depending on opposition + role within his own team. Does his best work when alongside talented offensive players (complementary role) and versatile defensive players (avoid matchups where he's a liability).

Glen Davis -- BBD is the type of bench player who could benefit greatly from increased minutes + touches but he already received that type of opportunity last season. I think it's too soon after that to expect Davis to do much more than what he's already shown. Last season, I loved seeing Davis + Powe get an opportunity to play more minutes and show off their skills.

Summary

Anyway, that's a rough guideline for the type of young players + role players who I think we would see good benefits from increased playing time + larger roles. Players who would benefit from the opportunity and consequently help improve their team.

I don't think the Celtics current bench players fit into those categories ... but it all depends on how highly you rate their young prospects + how highly you rate Williams + whether you think TA/Marquis/BBD can show more than they already have in past or recent opportunities. My views on that are fairly clear.

Like I said, normally when injuries happen I'm very excited about seeing what up and coming + less renowned role players are capable of doing with this type of injury. I just don't think there's a benefit for the Celtics in this specific case due to the players who are getting this opportunity.

As I said, extra experience is ALWAYS a benefit, no matter who's getting it, especially when it's actual GAME experience, in front of the media and a substantial audience. If someone goes down in the playoffs, we could very well be looking back at this time and thanking our stars above that our bench got some meaningful minutes earlier in the season, with a taste of just what the pressure of a real game can be like. No matter WHAT the situation, EVERY player benefits from experience and additional minutes, on many levels, and in ANY sport. Plenty of "upside" in my humble opinion.

[Bahku]

No, I don't think so. Injuries can have a silver lining by giving younger players an opportunity to show they belong but I don't think that's happening, or will happen, here for Boston.

(1) The Celtics main rotation players are all veterans -- Eddie House, Marquis Daniels, Rasheed Wallace, Glen Davis. The starting five. And to a lesser degree Scalabrine + Tony Allen. They've all been around the block and know what they're capable of.

(2) The remaining players aren't good enough to justify a rotation spot. JR Giddens, Bill Walker, Lestor Hudson.

(3) And, on a different note, Shelden Williams, who is better off in a limited role where better players hide his flaws. So, he doesn't benefit from increased minutes + touches.

I don't see any upside for the Celtics bench players here. Normally, injuries do create a great opportunity for players but not in this case.

Going on what we've seen so far this season, what are the chances that everyone's suddenly healthy at once for the playoffs?  That we don't have to go deeper than the 9-man rotation penciled in at the start of the season?

I think you're just plain wrong about Hudson.  I think he's in the rotation by the playoffs.

And Shelden and the other guys--assuming JR particularly is still here for the playoffs--of course benefit from mid-season time in games if they might be called into duty in the playoffs.

Yeah, I agree, Clover ... I just makes no sense to me that this experience now can be anything but good for those with short minutes. Time will tell, but we'll be extremely lucky if there are no further issues left in this season.

[scoop]

Prospects

Tier One -- Jarameo Davidson or Roko Ukic -- incapable of being a useful rotation player + not capable of being insurance for an injured rotation player + have some potential to improve and one day become a serviceable NBA player.

Tier Two -- Kyle Weaver or Donte Greene or Taj Gibson  -- a young player who is capable of showing himself to be a borderline rotation player + good insurance for the main rotation.

Tier Three -- JJ Hickson or Darren Collison -- a good young player who is capable of being a role player, an important one, for his team if given an opportunity.

Tier Four -- Jerryd Bayless -- a very good young prospect who hasn't been given the opportunity to play yet. If given the opportunity this young player could become a key cog in his team.

Celtics Youngsters

JR Giddens + Bill Walker + Lestor Hudson are all in that first tier. They're not capable of being rotation players in the NBA. They're not capable of being good insurance for the rotation. They are all decent prospects who are capable of becoming good insurance players, and may be capable of becoming solid rotation players, in the future, but not the near future.

Playing time will bring great benefits to these players once they're able to play at a higher level and prove themselves more so out there on the court. So next year rather than this year.

Veterans

Tier One -- Martell Webster -- a veteran who hasn't been given enough of an opportunity to show his full range of skills. In this case, his talents as a scorer. The extra responsibility + touches + play calls + shot attempts are a great opportunity for this type of veteran. Also true for a defensive stopper who hasn't gotten to matchup against top offensive players consistently yet.

Tier Two -- Marcin Gortat -- a very talented bench player who is capable of a lot more but hasn't been given the minutes to show that yet. Needs an extended run in the team playing increased minutes (12-15 to 27-32 minutes).

Tier Three -- Jason Williams or Jamaal Tinsley or a Devin Brown type -- a player who formerly was a good rotation player but has had a tough time with injuries or whatnot. An opportunity could show that he still belongs in the NBA, or not, as the cases may be.

Tier Four --Aaron Brooks or a Carlos Arroyo type (Jarrett Jack) -- a playmaking perimeter player who plays much better with the ball in his hands. Spending more time on the ball instead of always having to pass off to superior players (McGrady, Artest, Yao in Brooks case) gives the role player a great opportunity to show off how good he could be if he had the ball in his hands that much.

Tier Five -- Jared Dudley -- a decent role player who needs more minutes to show that he can keep his performance up at a high level consistently in increased minutes + against superior opposition.

Celtics Veterans

Eddie House + Brian Scalabrine -- veterans who have carved out their niche in the NBA already

Rasheed Wallace -- Former All-Star who was a main player on every team he's been on for the last decade.

None of these players will benefit from increased roles. It's already clear who they are and what they're capable of. The next four are somewhat debatable but I don't think they'll benefit either:

Tony Allen + Marquis Daniels -- Veterans who have played in several different situations + given several different types of good opportunities to show their abilities. It's already clear what their respective strengths + weaknesses are and what they're capable of contributing to a team.

Shelden Williams -- a solid borderline rotation player who has serious strengths + weaknesses which dramatically alter his effectiveness depending on opposition + role within his own team. Does his best work when alongside talented offensive players (complementary role) and versatile defensive players (avoid matchups where he's a liability).

Glen Davis -- BBD is the type of bench player who could benefit greatly from increased minutes + touches but he already received that type of opportunity last season. I think it's too soon after that to expect Davis to do much more than what he's already shown. Last season, I loved seeing Davis + Powe get an opportunity to play more minutes and show off their skills.

Summary

Anyway, that's a rough guideline for the type of young players + role players who I think we would see good benefits from increased playing time + larger roles. Players who would benefit from the opportunity and consequently help improve their team.

I don't think the Celtics current bench players fit into those categories ... but it all depends on how highly you rate their young prospects + how highly you rate Williams + whether you think TA/Marquis/BBD can show more than they already have in past or recent opportunities. My views on that are fairly clear.

Like I said, normally when injuries happen I'm very excited about seeing what up and coming + less renowned role players are capable of doing with this type of injury. I just don't think there's a benefit for the Celtics in this specific case due to the players who are getting this opportunity.

Excellent post.

[celticinorlando]

only if every gets and stays healthy in the end

[vinnie]

I think Hudson has potential, but will be absolutely shocked if he is in a 9-man rotation by the playoffs. There is a much better chance that the C's pick up a veteran to play backup point guard in the second half of the year.

[BballTim]

  Assuming his leg injury is minor, having Pierce or KG out for a (small) stretch is good for the development of Rondo, increasing his aggressiveness on the offensive end. It's also good for Tony, who's regaining his confidence after the injury and probably giving Doc more confidence in him than he had.

[clover]

I think Hudson has potential, but will be absolutely shocked if he is in a 9-man rotation by the playoffs. There is a much better chance that the C's pick up a veteran to play backup point guard in the second half of the year.

I think it's reasonable to assume two guys higher up on the depth chart are injured when the playoffs roll around--and I think Hudson's in.

[Bahku]

"This adversity can only be a good thing ... our team is getting better as a whole because the bench is getting better with the extra playing time." - Ray Allen, post-game interview, CSNNE

[clover]

"This adversity can only be a good thing ... our team is getting better as a whole because the bench is getting better with the extra playing time." - Ray Allen, post-game interview, CSNNE

Ah, jeez--what does Ray Allen know about the Celtics? 

[nickagneta]

 

  An hour before what became maybe the Celtics' least likely regular season victory in three seasons, Doc Rivers was asked if there were any positives that could be taken from having to play a game without Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo and Marquis Daniels.

    "There is no benefit as far as I know," he responded before the question was even finished. "When the playoffs start, I am 99 percent sure I will have the regular nine (rotation players) on the floor."

http://www.celticsblog.com/

Seems the coach, the guy that runs the team, agrees with Who and I.

[clover]

 

  An hour before what became maybe the Celtics' least likely regular season victory in three seasons, Doc Rivers was asked if there were any positives that could be taken from having to play a game without Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo and Marquis Daniels.

    "There is no benefit as far as I know," he responded before the question was even finished. "When the playoffs start, I am 99 percent sure I will have the regular nine (rotation players) on the floor."

And I say there's only about a 15% chance all 9 guys are healthy and playing at once--and that that is through the playoffs.

http://www.celticsblog.com/

Seems the coach, the guy that runs the team, agrees with Who and I.

[nickagneta]

 

  An hour before what became maybe the Celtics' least likely regular season victory in three seasons, Doc Rivers was asked if there were any positives that could be taken from having to play a game without Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo and Marquis Daniels.

    "There is no benefit as far as I know," he responded before the question was even finished. "When the playoffs start, I am 99 percent sure I will have the regular nine (rotation players) on the floor."

And I say there's only about a 15% chance all 9 guys are healthy and playing at once--and that that is through the playoffs.

http://www.celticsblog.com/

Seems the coach, the guy that runs the team, agrees with Who and I.

And last year there were 2 guys unhealthy enough to perform out of the normal 9 man rotation. In 2008 that number was zero. If we split the difference and say 1 of the 9 regulars(starters, Sheed, Baby, Marquis, Eddie) isn't going to be available in the playoffs, then that means either Sheldom on Tony will take that person's place.

So how is getting the last 4 guys on the bench some run during these few games going to help that situation? As Doc said: "There is no benefit..."

[BballTim]

 

  An hour before what became maybe the Celtics' least likely regular season victory in three seasons, Doc Rivers was asked if there were any positives that could be taken from having to play a game without Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo and Marquis Daniels.

    "There is no benefit as far as I know," he responded before the question was even finished. "When the playoffs start, I am 99 percent sure I will have the regular nine (rotation players) on the floor."

http://www.celticsblog.com/

Seems the coach, the guy that runs the team, agrees with Who and I.

  You agree that there's a 99% chance that our top nine will all be on the floor come playoff time?

[wiley]

Interesting debate....some the fight in this thread is semantics (silver lining for Celtics verses silver lining for young player), etc..

You never know.  If more than one of Giddens, Walker or Hudson (the main players in contention) are needed due to injury, then of course you have to think the title is not winnable...but what if just one of these players is not only needed, but ends up getting significant minutes?

Tony Allen's health is nothing to take for granted, nor is Marquis' or anyone else's.

So picture Paul, Ray, Rondo, House and Giddens as your playoff guards...stranger things have happened.  If Giddens has a good rebounding game coming up here and makes no major mistakes, he could get himself a couple of Scal's minutes (depending on matchups).  Don't forget, he is considered a good defender.

Always appreciate looking at the positive, understand both sides though, here..

[Chris]

The only possible blessing here, is it allows the C's to put the ball in Tony Allen's hands...which seems to be the only way he actually feels comfortable on the court, and is able to be somewhat productive.  This may actually allow him to be build a little bit of trade value, so they can try to move him for actual value, rather than as just salary filler.

Because as decently as he has played, I feel incredibly confident that the second they try to slide him back into a complimentary role as a 9th or 10th man, when everyone is healthy, he will be back to his old tricks.  He thrives in the situation he is in now, but has never been able to just be a steady role player.  So now, perhaps they can move him.