Is it time to think about trading........Rasheed!!

[Chris]

Two problems here.  First, no one would give up any value for that contract, and second, the C's need Sheed.

For every lazy play he has in a meaningless game, Sheed has 3 great plays in big games.  He has shown in two games now that he is as good, if not better than Perk (which I didn't think was possible) at checking Howard in the post.  He has shown that when he is interested, he can dominate offensively in the post.  

The problem with Sheed is he is terrible to watch if you are C's fan, because when it is not a big game, he goes on full-out cruise control.  However, he has shown that he knows how to flip the switch, and is still a tremendously effective player when he wants to be, making this team as deep as any team in the league.

So while we are going to have 3-4 months of frustration watching him sleepwalk through games, we just have to suck it up, knowing that he is going to be tremendously valuable come playoff time, when we need another big body, who can play defense, and can stretch the defense, if they decide not to cover Perk.

[Bankshot]

Trading Rasheed is an absurd idea.

[wdleehi]

No it isn't.

:]

I really must resist the urge to say "Yes it is."

Could you erm... elaborate? (is that the right word? :x)

Haha, yeah. Well here's my outlook. The guy could be one of the most dominant post scorers in the game. He isn't but he could be. Let's say he realizes this and works harder? So he starts scoring a little down low. It builds confidence for 3 point shooting. I don't want him taking 6 a game, but 2 or 3 would be reasonable, as long as they're good lucks. Also you could make the argument that he won't, but think about this. As of this point, Rasheed Wallace is an old, out of shape, 7 footer that doesn't work hard, or reach his potential. And he has 3 years on his contract. Who would take him? The reason I say no, is mainly because I believe he'll turn into an old, in shape, 7 footer, that works harder, and can get to that potential. I know he has a bad contract, but if he works hard then we have a good contract. Plus if he works hard he'd be a more-than-solid defensive player. I'd like it he maybe crashed the boards a little.

How did he not reach his potential?   He played a more team game then a me game.  The reason he didn't average 20 and 10 for his prime is because he sacrificed his own numbers too win. 

The reason he never averaged 20 and 10 is laziness.  You think he tried to be a below average rebounder in order to fit in with his teams?

He was playing to win as a team. 

[Chris]

No it isn't.

:]

I really must resist the urge to say "Yes it is."

Could you erm... elaborate? (is that the right word? :x)

Haha, yeah. Well here's my outlook. The guy could be one of the most dominant post scorers in the game. He isn't but he could be. Let's say he realizes this and works harder? So he starts scoring a little down low. It builds confidence for 3 point shooting. I don't want him taking 6 a game, but 2 or 3 would be reasonable, as long as they're good lucks. Also you could make the argument that he won't, but think about this. As of this point, Rasheed Wallace is an old, out of shape, 7 footer that doesn't work hard, or reach his potential. And he has 3 years on his contract. Who would take him? The reason I say no, is mainly because I believe he'll turn into an old, in shape, 7 footer, that works harder, and can get to that potential. I know he has a bad contract, but if he works hard then we have a good contract. Plus if he works hard he'd be a more-than-solid defensive player. I'd like it he maybe crashed the boards a little.

How did he not reach his potential?   He played a more team game then a me game.  The reason he didn't average 20 and 10 for his prime is because he sacrificed his own numbers too win. 

The reason he never averaged 20 and 10 is laziness.  You think he tried to be a below average rebounder in order to fit in with his teams?

He was playing to win as a team. 

Yup, and for much of that time, he was playing with the best rebounder in the game, who sucked up pretty much everything, and also kept Sheed closer to the perimeter.

[nickagneta]

Well, I started the thread but wasn't 100% convinced if it was time to think about it. Most here with some excellent opinions and points of interest, have made me do a 180. I agree. This team's best interest in this regard is to not think about it, unless of course some comes knocking looking for Rasheed and is willing to overwhelm the Celtics with an offer.

[moiso]

No it isn't.

:]

I really must resist the urge to say "Yes it is."

Could you erm... elaborate? (is that the right word? :x)

Haha, yeah. Well here's my outlook. The guy could be one of the most dominant post scorers in the game. He isn't but he could be. Let's say he realizes this and works harder? So he starts scoring a little down low. It builds confidence for 3 point shooting. I don't want him taking 6 a game, but 2 or 3 would be reasonable, as long as they're good lucks. Also you could make the argument that he won't, but think about this. As of this point, Rasheed Wallace is an old, out of shape, 7 footer that doesn't work hard, or reach his potential. And he has 3 years on his contract. Who would take him? The reason I say no, is mainly because I believe he'll turn into an old, in shape, 7 footer, that works harder, and can get to that potential. I know he has a bad contract, but if he works hard then we have a good contract. Plus if he works hard he'd be a more-than-solid defensive player. I'd like it he maybe crashed the boards a little.

How did he not reach his potential?   He played a more team game then a me game.  The reason he didn't average 20 and 10 for his prime is because he sacrificed his own numbers too win. 

The reason he never averaged 20 and 10 is laziness.  You think he tried to be a below average rebounder in order to fit in with his teams?

He was playing to win as a team. 

Yup, and for much of that time, he was playing with the best rebounder in the game, who sucked up pretty much everything, and also kept Sheed closer to the perimeter.

Well I'm mostly talking about his time in Portland when he was really in his prime.

[wdleehi]

No it isn't.

:]

I really must resist the urge to say "Yes it is."

Could you erm... elaborate? (is that the right word? :x)

Haha, yeah. Well here's my outlook. The guy could be one of the most dominant post scorers in the game. He isn't but he could be. Let's say he realizes this and works harder? So he starts scoring a little down low. It builds confidence for 3 point shooting. I don't want him taking 6 a game, but 2 or 3 would be reasonable, as long as they're good lucks. Also you could make the argument that he won't, but think about this. As of this point, Rasheed Wallace is an old, out of shape, 7 footer that doesn't work hard, or reach his potential. And he has 3 years on his contract. Who would take him? The reason I say no, is mainly because I believe he'll turn into an old, in shape, 7 footer, that works harder, and can get to that potential. I know he has a bad contract, but if he works hard then we have a good contract. Plus if he works hard he'd be a more-than-solid defensive player. I'd like it he maybe crashed the boards a little.

How did he not reach his potential?   He played a more team game then a me game.  The reason he didn't average 20 and 10 for his prime is because he sacrificed his own numbers too win. 

The reason he never averaged 20 and 10 is laziness.  You think he tried to be a below average rebounder in order to fit in with his teams?

He was playing to win as a team. 

Yup, and for much of that time, he was playing with the best rebounder in the game, who sucked up pretty much everything, and also kept Sheed closer to the perimeter.

Well I'm mostly talking about his time in Portland when he was really in his prime.

Where he played next to other 10 rebound a game guys like Grant and Randolph. 

[moiso]

No it isn't.

:]

I really must resist the urge to say "Yes it is."

Could you erm... elaborate? (is that the right word? :x)

Haha, yeah. Well here's my outlook. The guy could be one of the most dominant post scorers in the game. He isn't but he could be. Let's say he realizes this and works harder? So he starts scoring a little down low. It builds confidence for 3 point shooting. I don't want him taking 6 a game, but 2 or 3 would be reasonable, as long as they're good lucks. Also you could make the argument that he won't, but think about this. As of this point, Rasheed Wallace is an old, out of shape, 7 footer that doesn't work hard, or reach his potential. And he has 3 years on his contract. Who would take him? The reason I say no, is mainly because I believe he'll turn into an old, in shape, 7 footer, that works harder, and can get to that potential. I know he has a bad contract, but if he works hard then we have a good contract. Plus if he works hard he'd be a more-than-solid defensive player. I'd like it he maybe crashed the boards a little.

How did he not reach his potential?   He played a more team game then a me game.  The reason he didn't average 20 and 10 for his prime is because he sacrificed his own numbers too win. 

The reason he never averaged 20 and 10 is laziness.  You think he tried to be a below average rebounder in order to fit in with his teams?

He was playing to win as a team. 

Yup, and for much of that time, he was playing with the best rebounder in the game, who sucked up pretty much everything, and also kept Sheed closer to the perimeter.

Well I'm mostly talking about his time in Portland when he was really in his prime.

Where he played next to other 10 rebound a game guys like Grant and Randolph. 

Sheed played 8 years in Portland and averaged about 7 rebounds per game.  Randolph only got pt in Sheeds last year there.

[wdleehi]

No it isn't.

:]

I really must resist the urge to say "Yes it is."

Could you erm... elaborate? (is that the right word? :x)

Haha, yeah. Well here's my outlook. The guy could be one of the most dominant post scorers in the game. He isn't but he could be. Let's say he realizes this and works harder? So he starts scoring a little down low. It builds confidence for 3 point shooting. I don't want him taking 6 a game, but 2 or 3 would be reasonable, as long as they're good lucks. Also you could make the argument that he won't, but think about this. As of this point, Rasheed Wallace is an old, out of shape, 7 footer that doesn't work hard, or reach his potential. And he has 3 years on his contract. Who would take him? The reason I say no, is mainly because I believe he'll turn into an old, in shape, 7 footer, that works harder, and can get to that potential. I know he has a bad contract, but if he works hard then we have a good contract. Plus if he works hard he'd be a more-than-solid defensive player. I'd like it he maybe crashed the boards a little.

How did he not reach his potential?   He played a more team game then a me game.  The reason he didn't average 20 and 10 for his prime is because he sacrificed his own numbers too win. 

The reason he never averaged 20 and 10 is laziness.  You think he tried to be a below average rebounder in order to fit in with his teams?

He was playing to win as a team. 

Yup, and for much of that time, he was playing with the best rebounder in the game, who sucked up pretty much everything, and also kept Sheed closer to the perimeter.

Well I'm mostly talking about his time in Portland when he was really in his prime.

Where he played next to other 10 rebound a game guys like Grant and Randolph. 

Sheed played 8 years in Portland and averaged about 7 rebounds per game.  Randolph only got pt in Sheeds last year there.

And before that, he played with Sabonis and Grant.

And when Grant left, Dale Davis and Sabonis.


He almost always played with at least one other good rebounder.

[moiso]

No it isn't.

:]

I really must resist the urge to say "Yes it is."

Could you erm... elaborate? (is that the right word? :x)

Haha, yeah. Well here's my outlook. The guy could be one of the most dominant post scorers in the game. He isn't but he could be. Let's say he realizes this and works harder? So he starts scoring a little down low. It builds confidence for 3 point shooting. I don't want him taking 6 a game, but 2 or 3 would be reasonable, as long as they're good lucks. Also you could make the argument that he won't, but think about this. As of this point, Rasheed Wallace is an old, out of shape, 7 footer that doesn't work hard, or reach his potential. And he has 3 years on his contract. Who would take him? The reason I say no, is mainly because I believe he'll turn into an old, in shape, 7 footer, that works harder, and can get to that potential. I know he has a bad contract, but if he works hard then we have a good contract. Plus if he works hard he'd be a more-than-solid defensive player. I'd like it he maybe crashed the boards a little.

How did he not reach his potential?   He played a more team game then a me game.  The reason he didn't average 20 and 10 for his prime is because he sacrificed his own numbers too win. 

The reason he never averaged 20 and 10 is laziness.  You think he tried to be a below average rebounder in order to fit in with his teams?

He was playing to win as a team. 

Yup, and for much of that time, he was playing with the best rebounder in the game, who sucked up pretty much everything, and also kept Sheed closer to the perimeter.

Well I'm mostly talking about his time in Portland when he was really in his prime.

Where he played next to other 10 rebound a game guys like Grant and Randolph. 

Sheed played 8 years in Portland and averaged about 7 rebounds per game.  Randolph only got pt in Sheeds last year there.

And before that, he played with Sabonis and Grant.

And when Grant left, Dale Davis and Sabonis.


He almost always played with at least one other good rebounder.

Thats not a great argument because I could say Eddie House is a very good rebounder but the problem is that he has always played on teams with tall guys.

[wdleehi]

Thats not a great argument because I could say Eddie House is a very good rebounder but the problem is that he has always played on teams with tall guys.

No.  What it means that he played with a lot of good low post players.  Therefor, for the better of the team (and not his own stats) he played away from the basket more.

[Spilling Green Dye]

I avoided clicking on this thread because I figured it'd disappear in 24 hours or less.  Even now I find it futile to type any sense into this thread, but I might as well add something.

Trading rasheed wallace is one of the worst ideas, and would significantly lower the Celtic's chances of winning a title.  Our defensive schemes are built around guys like him, and he matches up extremely well with Orlando, Cleveland, and the Lakers.  The fact that we have him coming off the bench is a real luxury, and there is nothing we would get in return that would come close to making it worthwhile.

[moiso]

Thats not a great argument because I could say Eddie House is a very good rebounder but the problem is that he has always played on teams with tall guys.

No.  What it means that he played with a lot of good low post players.  Therefor, for the better of the team (and not his own stats) he played away from the basket more.

I don't think so.  His coaches wanted him to post up more even then.  Not that he was shooting many 3's but he was taking a lot of 18 footers.  This isn't true anymore, but the guy may have been the best low post player in the league not named Shaquile.  If he was such a team player he should have dominated down in the paint, and he shouldn't have let Portland squander that huge lead in 2000 or thereabouts.  Believe me, they didn't put Sheed at the three point land to make room for Kemp and Grant.  And Sabonis was a high post player anyway.  

[moiso]

You say he was trying to be a great teammate, I say he was a super talented player who didn't have the mental makeup to lead a team.

[wdleehi]

You say he was trying to be a great teammate, I say he was a super talented player who didn't have the mental makeup to lead a team.

Yet he was the key change for Detroit to becoming a playoff team to being the champs.