Sorry, but I have to make this post...

[fanofgreen]

tony still sucks imo.  i can give him his due, he has played well as of late, but there is no way in hell i want to sign him after this season.  i still think he is a trainwreck waiting to happen.

I like Tony, I like what he brings to the team.  That said, I agree with you in that I would never sign him again.  Because it's always going to be something with him.  Not to jinx him, but if he keeps in line with his career pattern he's going to get in a goove for like a month, then he's going to have either a minor injury that will get him out of his groove, or a major injury that will keep him off the court.

I agree, except, I dont think Tony can stay in this groove he's in now for a month, thats a little too long for Tony.

And yes, I agree, and have been saying forever on here, that Tony's "career" pattern says he'll be hurt very very soon,(i really wish that i'm wrong, but the pattern is what it is).

I've put this up on threads in the recent past(about a trade i thought we should make), but I really wish we would have some how found a way to trade Tony Allen for Dorrell Wright.

Because not only is Dorrell Wright playing very well, but I would be more inclined to sign him after this season, than i would Tony Allen.

[housecall]

tony still sucks imo.  i can give him his due, he has played well as of late, but there is no way in hell i want to sign him after this season.  i still think he is a trainwreck waiting to happen.

I agree 100%...and what other team in the NBA would have kept him around for 6seasons?It shows you how loyal the Celtics organization is and how patient.Any other team Tony in the NBA would have gotten rid of his butt long time ago.He is doing ok now but i wouldn't count on him playing well long term.I just enjoy when it happens(play well) and pray it'll last throughout the season.

He is the Lawrence Maroney of the NBA...he plays well for awhile but you know its coming,just dont know when.

[Chris]

tony still sucks imo.  i can give him his due, he has played well as of late, but there is no way in hell i want to sign him after this season.  i still think he is a trainwreck waiting to happen.

I couldn't agree more.  I still feel incredibly confident that he is either going to slide back into his old habits, or get hurt.  One or the other.

The thing is, I think he is a much better player as a starter.  If he is a starter, he seems to focus much better.  The problem is, he is not good enough to be a starter in a championship team.  He has too many holes in his game, and makes too many mistakes.  So unless he can learn to be consistent, and play within his limitations, in anywhere from 5-25 minutes per game off the bench, depending on the situation, he is not what this team needs in the longterm.

But I will give him credit, he has stepped it up the last week or so, and is playing well when they need him most.  But I don't want him back next year, and would feel much more comfortable if they sold high on him this year.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Personally, I do not look at it as Baby replacing Shelden, I'm looking at it as Baby replacing Sheed.  I personally think Baby is going to be the offensive force off the bench.  Sure he doesn't have the 3 ball in his game, but he's just more efficient then Sheed.  He shoots a better percentage, I think he's a better passer and I really do think he's going to be the key off the bench for the reason of the year.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for Sheed to not play, I just feel as if he should be the 2nd big man off the bench to Baby.  It's not going to happen immediately, but I do feel as if it'll happen within 10-15 games.

There is absolutely no way this is happening.  I'd bet anything..   

[Spilling Green Dye]

I remember how half of this site wanted to trade Baby because we had Shelden. And saying Shelden gives the team more than Baby ever did.  I wonder where those people are now?

They're still here. Shelden played like a stud while out on the court doing exactly what we needed him to do. BBD comes in and in a total of 9 minutes of play does what Shelden did for 26 games this year and you are going to act like he's that much better than Williams? That is the first stretch in his career that he has had 9 boards in 9 minutes where Williams rebounding has been a strength his whole career. BBD played very well in 15 min last night. He looked awful the other day against Orlando. Let's see a few more games of great rebounding before we decide BBD has turned a new leaf.

Amen and TP.  It's going to take a lot more games of what BBD just did last night against the Clippers for him to suddenly un-do what Shelden accomplished.

[Redz]

I remember how half of this site wanted to trade Baby because we had Shelden. And saying Shelden gives the team more than Baby ever did.  I wonder where those people are now?

They're still here. Shelden played like a stud while out on the court doing exactly what we needed him to do. BBD comes in and in a total of 9 minutes of play does what Shelden did for 26 games this year and you are going to act like he's that much better than Williams? That is the first stretch in his career that he has had 9 boards in 9 minutes where Williams rebounding has been a strength his whole career. BBD played very well in 15 min last night. He looked awful the other day against Orlando. Let's see a few more games of great rebounding before we decide BBD has turned a new leaf.

Amen and TP.  It's going to take a lot more games of what BBD just did last night against the Clippers for him to suddenly un-do what Shelden accomplished.

I don't know that BBD did exactly what Shelden did.  BBD is much more of an animal going after any loose ball than pure attack the boards kinda guy.  Sometimes those can be one and the same if it's a long rebound.  Shelden earned his keep by getting in position and going strong for every rebound, that's not Baby's strength.  Plus, Baby is a much different offensive player than Shelden.  They bring different stuff to the table IMO.

[Celtics17]

I too made posts saying how valuable BBD is to this team and got similar replies. Sure, the guy isnt the answer for everything but its hard to find anyone in the league who has his strength in the low post. He can guard much taller players by keeping them away from the basket and he also comes in handy if you have to hit the outside shot or need a hard foul on a player. It takes a lot of different ingredients to win a title and while BBD may provide only a few they just so happen to be ones the team is sorely missing.

[EJPLAYA]

I remember how half of this site wanted to trade Baby because we had Shelden. And saying Shelden gives the team more than Baby ever did.  I wonder where those people are now?

They're still here. Shelden played like a stud while out on the court doing exactly what we needed him to do. BBD comes in and in a total of 9 minutes of play does what Shelden did for 26 games this year and you are going to act like he's that much better than Williams? That is the first stretch in his career that he has had 9 boards in 9 minutes where Williams rebounding has been a strength his whole career. BBD played very well in 15 min last night. He looked awful the other day against Orlando. Let's see a few more games of great rebounding before we decide BBD has turned a new leaf.

Amen and TP.  It's going to take a lot more games of what BBD just did last night against the Clippers for him to suddenly un-do what Shelden accomplished.

I don't know that BBD did exactly what Shelden did.  BBD is much more of an animal going after any loose ball than pure attack the boards kinda guy.  Sometimes those can be one and the same if it's a long rebound.  Shelden earned his keep by getting in position and going strong for every rebound, that's not Baby's strength.  Plus, Baby is a much different offensive player than Shelden.  They bring different stuff to the table IMO.

They are different players on the offensive end of the floor, but their points and shooting percentages aren't much different. BBD took 2 outside shots in those two games and missed both of them REAL badly. He put three boards right back up and in. Looking at their production I don't see how you can really give BBD the big advantage on offense. They do it a bit differently, but the result has been the same. I'll take Shelden's consistent rebounding off the bench any day. I think BBD could be a better starter on a bad team than Shelden, but as far as a bench guy Shelden is much more consistent and solid. I'd trade him and Scal and Walker and/or Giddens in a heartbeat if we could pick up a big defensive 3.

[BASS_THUMPER]

big baby not doin the things he did last year..give him time?...hmmm.his game will never be what it was last year..

trade scalabrine..lol

teams have not been leavin scal open..he has gotten respect for his 3 ball..tony allen..i bet many teams would like to have him..he is great on d and can get to the free throw line...

and i had to pour out a lil beer when i saw the trade paul thread...free throws..?..trade rondo please..

[scoop]

I remember how half of this site wanted to trade Baby because we had Shelden. And saying Shelden gives the team more than Baby ever did.  I wonder where those people are now?

Sleeping with the enemy. If it wasn't for his lack of height, Glen would be more valuable than Sheed.

No.  Rasheed is a significantly better defender for more reasons than just his height.  He is also one of, if not our best, defensive rebounder.  And Glen's lack in this department is not fully attributed to his height.  Rasheed also has better range.  I'm not saying I'm not happy to have Glen back for bench support, but you're taking his contributions against the Clippers much too far.  There's a big reason Rasheed got $6mil, which was considered at the time cheap for him, and Baby got much less... and it's not all about height.

I think Rasheed is a better post defender than Davis because he of the height and his superior smarts and experience. Anywhere 7ft away from the rim, Davis is a better defender than Wallace.

You really think Rasheed is one of the best, if not our best, defensive rebounder? He's better than Davis or Scalabrine, but Perkins, Garnett and Shelden Williams are all far better than him.

[Bankshot]

I remember how half of this site wanted to trade Baby because we had Shelden. And saying Shelden gives the team more than Baby ever did.  I wonder where those people are now?

They're still here. Shelden played like a stud while out on the court doing exactly what we needed him to do. BBD comes in and in a total of 9 minutes of play does what Shelden did for 26 games this year and you are going to act like he's that much better than Williams? That is the first stretch in his career that he has had 9 boards in 9 minutes where Williams rebounding has been a strength his whole career. BBD played very well in 15 min last night. He looked awful the other day against Orlando. Let's see a few more games of great rebounding before we decide BBD has turned a new leaf.

Amen and TP.  It's going to take a lot more games of what BBD just did last night against the Clippers for him to suddenly un-do what Shelden accomplished.

I don't know that BBD did exactly what Shelden did.  BBD is much more of an animal going after any loose ball than pure attack the boards kinda guy.  Sometimes those can be one and the same if it's a long rebound.  Shelden earned his keep by getting in position and going strong for every rebound, that's not Baby's strength.  Plus, Baby is a much different offensive player than Shelden.  They bring different stuff to the table IMO.

They are different players on the offensive end of the floor, but their points and shooting percentages aren't much different. BBD took 2 outside shots in those two games and missed both of them REAL badly. He put three boards right back up and in. Looking at their production I don't see how you can really give BBD the big advantage on offense. They do it a bit differently, but the result has been the same. I'll take Shelden's consistent rebounding off the bench any day. I think BBD could be a better starter on a bad team than Shelden, but as far as a bench guy Shelden is much more consistent and solid. I'd trade him and Scal and Walker and/or Giddens in a heartbeat if we could pick up a big defensive 3.

I don't think Doc agrees with you and he sees them every day in practice.  Evidence the fact that he put Baby right back in the rotation despite what Shelden has done, when most thought Baby would have to re-earn his minutes.

[BASS_THUMPER]

tony still sucks imo.  i can give him his due, he has played well as of late, but there is no way in hell i want to sign him after this season.  i still think he is a trainwreck waiting to happen.

u kinda hurt my feelins..

i donr care what others think..cuzz most are brand new..but

u are not a new fan and to forget what he has done here...wow bro

u have truly gone to the dark side..

[Spilling Green Dye]

I remember how half of this site wanted to trade Baby because we had Shelden. And saying Shelden gives the team more than Baby ever did.  I wonder where those people are now?

Sleeping with the enemy. If it wasn't for his lack of height, Glen would be more valuable than Sheed.

No.  Rasheed is a significantly better defender for more reasons than just his height.  He is also one of, if not our best, defensive rebounder.  And Glen's lack in this department is not fully attributed to his height.  Rasheed also has better range.  I'm not saying I'm not happy to have Glen back for bench support, but you're taking his contributions against the Clippers much too far.  There's a big reason Rasheed got $6mil, which was considered at the time cheap for him, and Baby got much less... and it's not all about height.

I think Rasheed is a better post defender than Davis because he of the height and his superior smarts and experience. Anywhere 7ft away from the rim, Davis is a better defender than Wallace.

You really think Rasheed is one of the best, if not our best, defensive rebounder? He's better than Davis or Scalabrine, but Perkins, Garnett and Shelden Williams are all far better than him.

First, you just cited "height, smarts, and experience" which goes against the argument that their only difference is height.  In fact, what else could a superior defender have besides length, experience, and knowledge?  

Second, I completely disagree that 7' from the rim BBD is all of a sudden the superior defender.  Wallace gets in peoples faces b/c if they go to the rim he can block it.  He also has the length to bother jump shooters.  

Third, Wallace can LEAD a defense.  In other words, he can coordinate it as plays unfold.  Davis only reacts to the set schemes he is told to follow, and honestly I've yet to be impressed by his ability to anticipate and rotate very quickly.

Last, Yes, Wallace is the better rebounder.  What makes you think that Shelden, KG, and Perk are all "far better"??  Go to 82games and you'll see that Wallace is the best rebounder (unless I am completely reading their stats wrong).  Granted on the 2nd unit he might have less rebounding competition.  However, I still believe in a starting roll he'd get the most.  In fact, go back to the game where KG was out and Wallace took his place.... Rasheed most definitely outrebounded Perkins.

With regards to Tony Allen, I think there are a few teams who would like to have him on their roster.  It's not as if the Celtics are a complete charity in his case.  I like what he's done, but I still wouldn't trust him much in close games.

[Spilling Green Dye]

I remember how half of this site wanted to trade Baby because we had Shelden. And saying Shelden gives the team more than Baby ever did.  I wonder where those people are now?

They're still here. Shelden played like a stud while out on the court doing exactly what we needed him to do. BBD comes in and in a total of 9 minutes of play does what Shelden did for 26 games this year and you are going to act like he's that much better than Williams? That is the first stretch in his career that he has had 9 boards in 9 minutes where Williams rebounding has been a strength his whole career. BBD played very well in 15 min last night. He looked awful the other day against Orlando. Let's see a few more games of great rebounding before we decide BBD has turned a new leaf.

Amen and TP.  It's going to take a lot more games of what BBD just did last night against the Clippers for him to suddenly un-do what Shelden accomplished.

I don't know that BBD did exactly what Shelden did.  BBD is much more of an animal going after any loose ball than pure attack the boards kinda guy.  Sometimes those can be one and the same if it's a long rebound.  Shelden earned his keep by getting in position and going strong for every rebound, that's not Baby's strength.  Plus, Baby is a much different offensive player than Shelden.  They bring different stuff to the table IMO.

They are different players on the offensive end of the floor, but their points and shooting percentages aren't much different. BBD took 2 outside shots in those two games and missed both of them REAL badly. He put three boards right back up and in. Looking at their production I don't see how you can really give BBD the big advantage on offense. They do it a bit differently, but the result has been the same. I'll take Shelden's consistent rebounding off the bench any day. I think BBD could be a better starter on a bad team than Shelden, but as far as a bench guy Shelden is much more consistent and solid. I'd trade him and Scal and Walker and/or Giddens in a heartbeat if we could pick up a big defensive 3.

I don't think Doc agrees with you and he sees them every day in practice.  Evidence the fact that he put Baby right back in the rotation despite what Shelden has done, when most thought Baby would have to re-earn his minutes.

Since when has Doc been known for his intelligent rotations?

I clamored for him to play Rondo his rookie year.  Instead he played Telfair.

I clamored for him to play Gomes.  Instead he played Scalabrine.

I clamored for him to play Powe.  Instead he played Scally.

The list goes on and on.  Just because Doc plays someone over another player, it doesn't mean he is playing the best player.

[EJPLAYA]

I remember how half of this site wanted to trade Baby because we had Shelden. And saying Shelden gives the team more than Baby ever did.  I wonder where those people are now?

They're still here. Shelden played like a stud while out on the court doing exactly what we needed him to do. BBD comes in and in a total of 9 minutes of play does what Shelden did for 26 games this year and you are going to act like he's that much better than Williams? That is the first stretch in his career that he has had 9 boards in 9 minutes where Williams rebounding has been a strength his whole career. BBD played very well in 15 min last night. He looked awful the other day against Orlando. Let's see a few more games of great rebounding before we decide BBD has turned a new leaf.

Amen and TP.  It's going to take a lot more games of what BBD just did last night against the Clippers for him to suddenly un-do what Shelden accomplished.

I don't know that BBD did exactly what Shelden did.  BBD is much more of an animal going after any loose ball than pure attack the boards kinda guy.  Sometimes those can be one and the same if it's a long rebound.  Shelden earned his keep by getting in position and going strong for every rebound, that's not Baby's strength.  Plus, Baby is a much different offensive player than Shelden.  They bring different stuff to the table IMO.

They are different players on the offensive end of the floor, but their points and shooting percentages aren't much different. BBD took 2 outside shots in those two games and missed both of them REAL badly. He put three boards right back up and in. Looking at their production I don't see how you can really give BBD the big advantage on offense. They do it a bit differently, but the result has been the same. I'll take Shelden's consistent rebounding off the bench any day. I think BBD could be a better starter on a bad team than Shelden, but as far as a bench guy Shelden is much more consistent and solid. I'd trade him and Scal and Walker and/or Giddens in a heartbeat if we could pick up a big defensive 3.

I don't think Doc agrees with you and he sees them every day in practice.  Evidence the fact that he put Baby right back in the rotation despite what Shelden has done, when most thought Baby would have to re-earn his minutes.

Or maybe he now knows what he has in Shelden, and realizes if he wants any chance at getting his stock back up for a trade he needs to get Sheldens' minutes for now. For 26 games Williams played better than he has in his career. The role seems to suit his skills very well. I am not saying there isn't a chance that Doc doesn't think BBD is a far superior player, but you can't dismiss the possibility that he is getting him in the lineup for a potential trade. Once Daniels is back and we get that scoring threat back on the floor we will need the rebounding a lot more than we need BBD's "intangibles".