Tracy McGrady Leaving The Rockets

[soap07]

"The five players I mentioned, and I guess you could throw Vince Carter into that mix and former player Stephon Marbury, is that each of them built their game around the Michael Jordan image of a basketball player that David Stern then turned into the definition of a basket media star. Stern created a generation of ball dominant, shoot first, pass second, the offense starts and stops with me, I can't be fouled and never call a foul on me, I'll play defense when I want not because I have to, non-team oriented more me oriented players. I really have despised that type of ball player for a long long time."


Again, as I said in my post above, Lebron has improved all facets of his game, including passing, rebounding and defense since he's been in the league. Lebron is shoot first, pass second? Well, yes. He's the best scorer in the league, that's expected. But that's not the only facet of his game, the way that Iverson's is.

The bottom line is - Iverson did not make the teammates around him better, which I think is the point you're trying to make - that you don't like players that don't inflate the players around them in a way that Bird/Magic did. But really, LeBron certainly makes the teammates around him better. Kobe does as well, albeit, moreso last year.

And really, is anyone going to claim that Kobe wasn't a team player last year in the mold of our own Big 3? Kobe showed maturity last year, in the same way Paul did during our championship run, as much as we hate to admit it.

[huzy]

My point was not to compare the respective players mentioned. My point was not to throw out all the great players in the league. Notice I did not mention Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzski, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Brandon Roy, all of the Big three, etc., etc.

The five players I mentioned, and I guess you could throw Vince Carter into that mix and former player Stephon Marbury, is that each of them built their game around the Michael Jordan image of a basketball player that David Stern then turned into the definition of a basket media star. Stern created a generation of ball dominant, shoot first, pass second, the offense starts and stops with me, I can't be fouled and never call a foul on me, I'll play defense when I want not because I have to, non-team oriented more me oriented players. I really have despised that type of ball player for a long long time.

So, I hope that makes things clearer. I never meant to insult anyone's intelligence.

Stern did it? I consider this a very problematic post.

There have been dominant scorers in the league since before Stern. The only difference is that people buy more jerseys now and pro leagues have online all star voting. There are also more media outlets fighting for an audience. To get an audience, you put out the media that people want.

Blame coaches if you don't like the style of play. They are the ones who run their offense through their scorer, like with LeBron and TMac. They let those players dominate the ball. It took Doc to make Pierce play off the ball more.

It is not Stern's fault that people don't watch Duncan/Spurs games. Look at NBAtv and the fan voting for games on Tuesday. It is the fans who are responsible for exalting the individual, not the league.

I would also go pre-Jordan and focus on the cult of the individual when talking about 'Bird and Magic saving the NBA' though they both had hall of fame teammates.

I would blame AAU basketball and the beauty of the sport itself for problems in playing style. I would also blame a general change in how Americans feel about authority, which makes it harder to coach players. You can see this in any place of work, not just on sports teams.

I would also ask, what players sneakers? This has nothing to do with Stern, but plays a role in presenting the player to the public. It also gives us insight into what players generate $. This means that media sources can get more audience by having features on those players and lots of highlights.

I would also blame Jordan. Young players watched Come Fly With Me and wanted to play like him. Stern had nothing to do with this. The media also craved another Jordan. It wasn't Stern who was calling players the next Jordan. It was us, the fans, and the media. 
 
  Logged 
 

This is an interesting debate…

If you want to blame anyone for the “me first” nature of the NBA, I got three letters for you, ABA. They invented the dunk contest, they essentially ignored defense throughout their existence and they posed the biggest threat to the grind it out, slow paced NBA in the late sixties early seventies. All David Stern did was market the “you know what” out of a product that evolved from the merging of these two styles.

Where I think you’re right, Nick, is how these types of players (Iverson, Carter, Marbury, etc.) alienate fans and saturate a beautiful game. However, that doesn’t make them lepers. The NBA is an enormous product with multiple pieces that play multiple roles.

What I mean by this is the NBA needs to feel good story out of Oklahoma City where a bunch of young kids are threatening to sneak into a surprisingly accessible Western Conference playoff picture.

The NBA also needs a rookie, who I anticipate one day will be mentioned in the same breath as the players above, Brandon Jennings, to score 55 points and make the Milwaukee Bucks an engaging team to tune into.

Different players and different teams play different roles for the league. Some players sell jerseys and get oohs and aahhhs from the fans, Vince Carter and TMac.

Some players continue to win and play the game in a team oriented manner without much accolade or hype, Duncan and Billups.
Some players show glimpses of “wow” and entice fans into watching games they otherwise wouldn’t care about to see the next “flash in the pan”, Brandon Jennings.

They all keep the ball rolling.

I agree with you that I strongly prefer the game of basketball being played the right way, constant motion…team defense….multiple offensive options and 100% effort every play. However, the NBA is a product that consists of multiple components. All of these factors are interdependent of one another.

Would I appreciate Ray Allen as much as I do if there was no Vince Carter?

Would I appreciate Kevin Garnett as much as I do if there was no Shawn Kemp?

Would I appreciate Tim Duncan as much as I do if there was no Amar’e Stoudemire?

I don’t know. But, I think my concrete viewing of the alternative is what makes me appreciate the greatness of these players and understand how rare it is to see the game played the right way on a consistent basis.