Eddie House is okay, but....ummm

[moiso]

Nate is by far the better player of the two, but it's not easy to say if he would make our team better or not.  One of the most important characteristics of championship teams is that everyone knows their roles.  Eddie knows his role, Robinson does not. 

[moiso]

For those who have read Bill Simmons' book, Eddie knows the "secret", and Robinson does not.

[scoop]

Nick, nobody said House is a slow starter. He's just a streaky shooter, whose shot is off for stretches and hot for others. In his first season in the Celtics he shot 42% from distance pre-ASG and 35% post-ASG. Nobody said that he normally has stretches like he did in the 2nd half of last season - he wouldn't be playing for $2.5M if that was the case. But House has shot above 37.5% since his 3rd season in the league and at or above 39% in his last 5 seasons, so I think there's a good chance that he'll end the season with those kind of numbers once again.

eja117, role-players are supposed to fill roles. While in a vacuum Robinson is a better player than House and for some teams he'd be a better player, I don't think the Cs are one of those teams, because House is, by far, a better shooter on the catch. Robinson's skills would be redundant in this team: he's certainly a better shot-creator than House, but the Celtics have like 5 players that are better than Robinson. If you're asking Robinson to do what House does - play off-the-ball, the 1-3 ballscreen, shoot, spread the floor, guard the opponent PG - then I'd rather have House, because he does those things better or at least as well as Robinson. I mean, do you want Robinson controlling the ball and Pierce on the corner waiting for a shot? Is that better than Pierce controlling the ball and House spreading the floor and waiting for a kick-out? No, it isn't. 

[thirstyboots18]

Well said,  Scoop.  tp

[Eja117]

Well said,  Scoop.  tp

I tped that one myself.

Finally. A disagreement and very good explanation that's difficult to take issue with that involves some common sense and has no hint of condescension or exhausted exasperation.  Everyone take notes. There will be a quiz tomorrow. I may tp that again at some point

[Toine43]

Nick, nobody said House is a slow starter. He's just a streaky shooter, whose shot is off for stretches and hot for others. In his first season in the Celtics he shot 42% from distance pre-ASG and 35% post-ASG. Nobody said that he normally has stretches like he did in the 2nd half of last season - he wouldn't be playing for $2.5M if that was the case. But House has shot above 37.5% since his 3rd season in the league and at or above 39% in his last 5 seasons, so I think there's a good chance that he'll end the season with those kind of numbers once again.

eja117, role-players are supposed to fill roles. While in a vacuum Robinson is a better player than House and for some teams he'd be a better player, I don't think the Cs are one of those teams, because House is, by far, a better shooter on the catch. Robinson's skills would be redundant in this team: he's certainly a better shot-creator than House, but the Celtics have like 5 players that are better than Robinson. If you're asking Robinson to do what House does - play off-the-ball, the 1-3 ballscreen, shoot, spread the floor, guard the opponent PG - then I'd rather have House, because he does those things better or at least as well as Robinson. I mean, do you want Robinson controlling the ball and Pierce on the corner waiting for a shot? Is that better than Pierce controlling the ball and House spreading the floor and waiting for a kick-out? No, it isn't. 

TP. I'm in total agreement with you. Great argument.

[Rondo_is_better]

Nick, nobody said House is a slow starter. He's just a streaky shooter, whose shot is off for stretches and hot for others. In his first season in the Celtics he shot 42% from distance pre-ASG and 35% post-ASG. Nobody said that he normally has stretches like he did in the 2nd half of last season - he wouldn't be playing for $2.5M if that was the case. But House has shot above 37.5% since his 3rd season in the league and at or above 39% in his last 5 seasons, so I think there's a good chance that he'll end the season with those kind of numbers once again.

eja117, role-players are supposed to fill roles. While in a vacuum Robinson is a better player than House and for some teams he'd be a better player, I don't think the Cs are one of those teams, because House is, by far, a better shooter on the catch. Robinson's skills would be redundant in this team: he's certainly a better shot-creator than House, but the Celtics have like 5 players that are better than Robinson. If you're asking Robinson to do what House does - play off-the-ball, the 1-3 ballscreen, shoot, spread the floor, guard the opponent PG - then I'd rather have House, because he does those things better or at least as well as Robinson. I mean, do you want Robinson controlling the ball and Pierce on the corner waiting for a shot? Is that better than Pierce controlling the ball and House spreading the floor and waiting for a kick-out? No, it isn't. 

TP. I'm in total agreement with you. Great argument.

TP Scoop - very intelligent argument.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth #20]

How can you say anything bad about Eddie "Rapid Fire" House? I guess you could complain that he is too perfect for the Celtics. My bad, I agree, Eddie is too perfect of a fit for this team, get rid of him and get someone who doesn't fit at all.

[Rtpas11]

My point for this topic was proven in tonights 1st half (vs. clippers). Eddie gets subbed in as pg and rondo goes out. Ray allen stays in as sg, but ray allen runs the point (brings ball up court etc), and not eddie house. Ray's 3 point spacing threat is immediately erased when he's the ball handler, so now instead of having a pg like a Nate Robinson (Scorer, demands attention and is a ball handler) to setup two shooters (ray allen and eddie house) while rondo is out the game, we only have one trying to create for the other Tony allen is also not a creator. This works far better with pierce in the line up than with ray, but it still leaves us with only 1 shooter and not 2 when pierce is running point.

I'm not saying to cut eddie, but to use him more as a specialist and not a primary backup pg, who actually plays sg. Oh yeah why wouldn't pierce play the corner and wait on robinson? he does that for rondo doesn't he? Anyhow nate's coming here is not for pierce or the starters but for the 2nd team to play at full capable strength. When eddie is needed bring him in as a specialist in a situation...etc

[nickagneta]

Nick, nobody said House is a slow starter. He's just a streaky shooter, whose shot is off for stretches and hot for others. In his first season in the Celtics he shot 42% from distance pre-ASG and 35% post-ASG. Nobody said that he normally has stretches like he did in the 2nd half of last season - he wouldn't be playing for $2.5M if that was the case. But House has shot above 37.5% since his 3rd season in the league and at or above 39% in his last 5 seasons, so I think there's a good chance that he'll end the season with those kind of numbers once again.

Nobody said Eddie House is a slow starter. That's true. You didn't say it and neither did I. And I agree also that Eddie is a streaky shooter. But as I pointed out, it isn't often that he is going to go on extended hot streaks. He has in in a couple ways those two super hot streaks move his numbers into overall okay numbers but as I am trying to point out, the likelihood of him going on an extended string of great shooting is not very good as he just stopped being in one last year and the other time it happened it was a few years back.

What I am trying to say is that it is more likely for Eddie to go through a prolonged streak of poor or very mediocre shooting right now than it is for him to get hot. And, since I actually do pay attention to how Eddie is playing this year, I would say if he overall hasn't played well. His defense against PGs has been bad. His rebounding has been worse and he's not getting as many assists since he's playing the point less on offense. He he is expected to shoot better but his shooting is not good and although you hint that since House's numbers last year were similar at a similar time that Eddie could turn things around and end up with great numbers like last year, it's more likely that won't happen.

That's all I was trying to say.

[wdleehi]

I think the Celtics need a player like House as a sniper of the bench. 

What they need to upgrade is a ball handler who can run the offense off the bench.  Daniels is OK in this role.


Now I would be fine if the Celtics were to add a large PG that could play with House.


Or a PG that can both run the offense and hit outside shots.


Or a true PG and replace Daniels or TA with a SG/SF that us a sniper. 

[wdleehi]

The team does not need an undersized gunner (No Nate)

[scoop]

Nick, nobody said House is a slow starter. He's just a streaky shooter, whose shot is off for stretches and hot for others. In his first season in the Celtics he shot 42% from distance pre-ASG and 35% post-ASG. Nobody said that he normally has stretches like he did in the 2nd half of last season - he wouldn't be playing for $2.5M if that was the case. But House has shot above 37.5% since his 3rd season in the league and at or above 39% in his last 5 seasons, so I think there's a good chance that he'll end the season with those kind of numbers once again.

Nobody said Eddie House is a slow starter. That's true. You didn't say it and neither did I. And I agree also that Eddie is a streaky shooter. But as I pointed out, it isn't often that he is going to go on extended hot streaks. He has in in a couple ways those two super hot streaks move his numbers into overall okay numbers but as I am trying to point out, the likelihood of him going on an extended string of great shooting is not very good as he just stopped being in one last year and the other time it happened it was a few years back.

What I am trying to say is that it is more likely for Eddie to go through a prolonged streak of poor or very mediocre shooting right now than it is for him to get hot. And, since I actually do pay attention to how Eddie is playing this year, I would say if he overall hasn't played well. His defense against PGs has been bad. His rebounding has been worse and he's not getting as many assists since he's playing the point less on offense. He he is expected to shoot better but his shooting is not good and although you hint that since House's numbers last year were similar at a similar time that Eddie could turn things around and end up with great numbers like last year, it's more likely that won't happen.

That's all I was trying to say.

I expect House's numbers to be similar to the same kind of numbers he had in his past 5 seasons, around 40% (so, to improve from where they're all). That's all, it seems to me it's quite easy to understand (as I said, if he was able to shoot 44% every season, he wouldn't be playing for his salary). Once again, in his first season in the Celtics he shot 42% in one part of the season and 35% in the other part.

I have no idea why you think that he won't improve his shooting numbers and be at least close to his career average. Nobody is saying or implying he'll be shooting at almost 50% in his 3 pointers like last season, but he doesn't need to. "He he is expected to shoot better but his shooting is not good"? What does this mean? He's a 9 years veteran with a career average of 39.5% in the long shot. Of course his shooting is good.

[scoop]

My point for this topic was proven in tonights 1st half (vs. clippers). Eddie gets subbed in as pg and rondo goes out. Ray allen stays in as sg, but ray allen runs the point (brings ball up court etc), and not eddie house. Ray's 3 point spacing threat is immediately erased when he's the ball handler, so now instead of having a pg like a Nate Robinson (Scorer, demands attention and is a ball handler) to setup two shooters (ray allen and eddie house) while rondo is out the game, we only have one trying to create for the other Tony allen is also not a creator. This works far better with pierce in the line up than with ray, but it still leaves us with only 1 shooter and not 2 when pierce is running point.

I'm not saying to cut eddie, but to use him more as a specialist and not a primary backup pg, who actually plays sg. Oh yeah why wouldn't pierce play the corner and wait on robinson? he does that for rondo doesn't he? Anyhow nate's coming here is not for pierce or the starters but for the 2nd team to play at full capable strength. When eddie is needed bring him in as a specialist in a situation...etc

In the playoffs, there is no 2nd team. Even in the regular season the concept is more theoretical. Last season, and league wide, the top 8 slots played 93.5% of all of the minutes available. The 10th man averaged 6.6 mpg and most of them were in garbage times.

In the post-season, the regular season 9th man becomes the 10th man, as he only plays situational minutes or garbage time. Most teams play a eight-man rotation and that's all.

With that in mind, the backup guard will have 12/14 minutes available. He'll play many of them alongside Daniels, a player with no outside shot but able to create for himself and others off the dribble. He'll play with at least one of Ray Allen and Paul Pierce on the court - both are widely superior as scorers and play-makers relatively to Robinson. He'll play along other guys who can create their shots, like Garnett and Wallace. To sum it up, there will be plenty of guys able to score and make plays on the floor for every second.

Within this frame, I can't see why would Robinson be a better fit.

[BballTim]

My point for this topic was proven in tonights 1st half (vs. clippers). Eddie gets subbed in as pg and rondo goes out. Ray allen stays in as sg, but ray allen runs the point (brings ball up court etc), and not eddie house. Ray's 3 point spacing threat is immediately erased when he's the ball handler, so now instead of having a pg like a Nate Robinson (Scorer, demands attention and is a ball handler) to setup two shooters (ray allen and eddie house) while rondo is out the game, we only have one trying to create for the other

 I think that a Nate/Eddie/Ray combo would be very poor defensively.