The Sox are officially after Adrian Gonzalez

[nickagneta]

From just 2 days ago!!!

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/01/hoyer_gonzalez.html

Jed Hoyer apparently did not get the memo that his duty as the new general manager of the San Diego Padres is to trade Adrian Gonzalez to the Red Sox for Clay Buchholz and assorted prospects.

Globe colleague Amalie Benjamin spoke to Hoyer for an item in the Sunday baseball notes and asked him about the idea of trading Gonzalez. Here is what he had to say:

"There's certainly been a lot of interest. A number of teams have inquired about him. I think we're obviously willing to listen on anything, but he's a great player, he fits our team, he fits our payroll structure very well.

"So he's certainly not a player we're looking to move. I think that's been the way we've addressed it all winter. Teams have inquired, but we've certainly said the same thing over and over: He's not a player we're looking to move."

This is not what Red Sox fans want to hear. But Gonzalez is signed for $4.75 million for 2010 and the Padres hold a $5.5 million option for 2011. As star players go, he's a bargain. True, he'll be hard to sign for 2012. But that is an issue Hoyer can deal with in July -- or sometime next winter.

The Padres were 33-25 after Aug. 1 last season and in the junkyard NL West could become contenders quickly, especially with the Dodgers in disarray due to their ownership crisis.

So if you were counting on Gonzalez to become the cleanup hitter in the Red Sox lineup, be advised that it's a long shot, at least for right now.

[winsomme]

regardless of SD, a deal isn't going to get down now because of the Sox as much as anybody else.

I mean, how ridiculous would it look to give Beltre 10 million and then go and trade for Gonzalez.

this gets back to why I'm not crazy about the Beltre move. IMO it show the Sox moving in a different direction (ie away from getting the big bat).

[winsomme]

From just 2 days ago!!!

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/01/hoyer_gonzalez.html

Jed Hoyer apparently did not get the memo that his duty as the new general manager of the San Diego Padres is to trade Adrian Gonzalez to the Red Sox for Clay Buchholz and assorted prospects.

Globe colleague Amalie Benjamin spoke to Hoyer for an item in the Sunday baseball notes and asked him about the idea of trading Gonzalez. Here is what he had to say:

"There's certainly been a lot of interest. A number of teams have inquired about him. I think we're obviously willing to listen on anything, but he's a great player, he fits our team, he fits our payroll structure very well.

"So he's certainly not a player we're looking to move. I think that's been the way we've addressed it all winter. Teams have inquired, but we've certainly said the same thing over and over: He's not a player we're looking to move."

This is not what Red Sox fans want to hear. But Gonzalez is signed for $4.75 million for 2010 and the Padres hold a $5.5 million option for 2011. As star players go, he's a bargain. True, he'll be hard to sign for 2012. But that is an issue Hoyer can deal with in July -- or sometime next winter.

The Padres were 33-25 after Aug. 1 last season and in the junkyard NL West could become contenders quickly, especially with the Dodgers in disarray due to their ownership crisis.

So if you were counting on Gonzalez to become the cleanup hitter in the Red Sox lineup, be advised that it's a long shot, at least for right now.

what about this isn't standard operating procedure for any GM talking about a player that could be traded for a nice package of prospects, nick?

A-Gon fits their payroll structure, but does he help them win?

to me, this is exactly what I have been saying: for the right price A-Gon can be had. They're not actively trying to move him, but they IMO would trade him to the Sox for Buch, Ells, and Kelly....

that would be a steep price, but IMO worth it.

anyway, like i said, more than anything else, the Beltre signing puts an end to any move like this ....which is why I'm not crazy about having signed Beltre.

[winsomme]

the rumors in December were that Hoyer was looking for too much in return for A-Gon, not that he was unwilling to move him...

that makes more sense to me and even fits with the source you just quoted.

[nickagneta]

Did it ever occur to you that they are still interested in a big bat but just not any big bat? Possibly, since they couldn't, as in just aren't able, to get the big bat they think is a huge difference making big bat, that they will just sign shorter, lower valued contracts to allow themselves the flexibility to make a deal for one of those big difference making bats if they come along.

Next year, tons of cash comes off the payroll. The Beltre signing doesn't change that as his contract will also more than likely come off the payroll, especially if he has a good to great year. Pujols, Mauer and Crawford could all be available. Gonzalez, prince Fielder and Hanley Ramirez could be had through trade. Texiera WAS the bat they wanted and thought they had.

The Sox haven't abandoned the search for the difference making big bat, they just through circumstances can do it now and so are positioning thmselves well for when they have to do it.

[winsomme]

Did it ever occur to you that they are still interested in a big bat but just not any big bat? Possibly, since they couldn't, as in just aren't able, to get the big bat they think is a huge difference making big bat, that they will just sign shorter, lower valued contracts to allow themselves the flexibility to make a deal for one of those big difference making bats if they come along.

Next year, tons of cash comes off the payroll. The Beltre signing doesn't change that as his contract will also more than likely come off the payroll, especially if he has a good to great year. Pujols, Mauer and Crawford could all be available. Gonzalez, prince Fielder and Hanley Ramirez could be had through trade. Texiera WAS the bat they wanted and thought they had.

The Sox haven't abandoned the search for the difference making big bat, they just through circumstances can do it now and so are positioning thmselves well for when they have to do it.

well, you say "can't"....I say "won't".

IMO, they have made a decided move away from the idea of getting a big bat with their offseason additions.

as far as 2011 goes, there are way too many variables to feel any kind of comfort in salaries coming off the books.

anyway, "future flexibility" seems like a crazy deciding factor for the Sox who are making money hand over fist.

I'm looking at the team coming in next season and we have the makings of a WS team, but not if we don't get that element that we have been needing for a while now.

IMO, two postseason runs with the same problem makes me feel like they just aren't appreciating  how important that big bat is to winning...

[footey]

maybe the Beltre deal makes Youk expendable for the right deal. Would you trade Youk, Bard and Buckholz for Gonzalez?  I would. That would be a very decent package, but it would also improve our power in the line up, which is what is lacking. I love Youk, but that would be a major upgrade in the power department. GOt to fight fire with fire.

[Big_Matt34]

well, you say "can't"....I say "won't".

IMO, they have made a decided move away from the idea of getting a big bat with their offseason additions.

See this is where I and i assume Nick think you are wrong. Don't you think its more likely they made these offseason additions because they know its extremely unlike they will be able to aquire a big bat? Would you rather them stand pat and just hope a middle of the order guy becomes available?  Theo knew the chances on A-Gon getting dealt were very low, so he did what he could with the FA class to improve the team as much as he could.

As for the Youk/Buchholz/Bard for A-Gon, not a chance in hell. A-Gon is not enough of an upgrade over Youk to add Buchholz who looked like an ace the last 2 months of the season, and Bard who is clearly being groomed to be the closer of the future. Youkilis is a mid 900 OPS guy, you trade for A-Gon to compliment that, not replace it.

[winsomme]

well, you say "can't"....I say "won't".

IMO, they have made a decided move away from the idea of getting a big bat with their offseason additions.

See this is where I and i assume Nick think you are wrong. Don't you think its more likely they made these offseason additions because they know its extremely unlike they will be able to aquire a big bat? Would you rather them stand pat and just hope a middle of the order guy becomes available?  Theo knew the chances on A-Gon getting dealt were very low, so he did what he could with the FA class to improve the team as much as he could.

As for the Youk/Buchholz/Bard for A-Gon, not a chance in hell. A-Gon is not enough of an upgrade over Youk to add Buchholz who looked like an ace the last 2 months of the season, and Bard who is clearly being groomed to be the closer of the future. Youkilis is a mid 900 OPS guy, you trade for A-Gon to compliment that, not replace it.

Well, I think that is why you have to overpay to get the big bat. Buch, Ells, and Kelly is probably overpaying to get A-Gon, but these guys are the hardest to get in MLB right now...

I believe the reporting that Hoyer was asking for a package that Theo wasn't willing to give up...

now what that package was certainly is debatable, but the aforementioned seems about right to me. and in that case, the decision to after the Camerons and Beltres is more about Theo than it is Hoyer.

and that worries and frustrates me.

either way, however, this team IMO is going to struggle against good pitching....I guess I would feel a little bit better about it if I knew that Theo actually really did want the big bat and couldn't get it...but not a lot better.

[bucknersrevenge]

well, you say "can't"....I say "won't".

IMO, they have made a decided move away from the idea of getting a big bat with their offseason additions.

See this is where I and i assume Nick think you are wrong. Don't you think its more likely they made these offseason additions because they know its extremely unlike they will be able to aquire a big bat? Would you rather them stand pat and just hope a middle of the order guy becomes available?  Theo knew the chances on A-Gon getting dealt were very low, so he did what he could with the FA class to improve the team as much as he could.

As for the Youk/Buchholz/Bard for A-Gon, not a chance in hell. A-Gon is not enough of an upgrade over Youk to add Buchholz who looked like an ace the last 2 months of the season, and Bard who is clearly being groomed to be the closer of the future. Youkilis is a mid 900 OPS guy, you trade for A-Gon to compliment that, not replace it.

Well, I think that is why you have to overpay to get the big bat. Buch, Ells, and Kelly is probably overpaying to get A-Gon, but these guys are the hardest to get in MLB right now...

I believe the reporting that Hoyer was asking for a package that Theo wasn't willing to give up...

now what that package was certainly is debatable, but the aforementioned seems about right to me. and in that case, the decision to after the Camerons and Beltres is more about Theo than it is Hoyer.

and that worries and frustrates me.

either way, however, this team IMO is going to struggle against good pitching....I guess I would feel a little bit better about it if I knew that Theo actually really did want the big bat and couldn't get it...but not a lot better.

Define "good pitching" and how many teams don't struggle against said good pitching?

[winsomme]

well, you say "can't"....I say "won't".

IMO, they have made a decided move away from the idea of getting a big bat with their offseason additions.

See this is where I and i assume Nick think you are wrong. Don't you think its more likely they made these offseason additions because they know its extremely unlike they will be able to aquire a big bat? Would you rather them stand pat and just hope a middle of the order guy becomes available?  Theo knew the chances on A-Gon getting dealt were very low, so he did what he could with the FA class to improve the team as much as he could.

As for the Youk/Buchholz/Bard for A-Gon, not a chance in hell. A-Gon is not enough of an upgrade over Youk to add Buchholz who looked like an ace the last 2 months of the season, and Bard who is clearly being groomed to be the closer of the future. Youkilis is a mid 900 OPS guy, you trade for A-Gon to compliment that, not replace it.

Well, I think that is why you have to overpay to get the big bat. Buch, Ells, and Kelly is probably overpaying to get A-Gon, but these guys are the hardest to get in MLB right now...

I believe the reporting that Hoyer was asking for a package that Theo wasn't willing to give up...

now what that package was certainly is debatable, but the aforementioned seems about right to me. and in that case, the decision to after the Camerons and Beltres is more about Theo than it is Hoyer.

and that worries and frustrates me.

either way, however, this team IMO is going to struggle against good pitching....I guess I would feel a little bit better about it if I knew that Theo actually really did want the big bat and couldn't get it...but not a lot better.

Define "good pitching" and how many teams don't struggle against said good pitching?

Well I would call the Yankees staff "good pitching" and I would worry about this lineup going up against their staff in the postseason....

as far as struggling, what I'm getting at is that when you look at the team's performance, you can point to those struggles as a reason for losing.

and I think we have two postseasons now where lack of hitting was a significant factor in the losses. more so this year than last, but that game 7 against Tampa in 08 was beyond frustrating...

[yall hate]

Well, I think that is why you have to overpay to get the big bat. Buch, Ells, and Kelly is probably overpaying to get A-Gon, but these guys are the hardest to get in MLB right now...

that isnt probably overpaying, it is way way overpaying.  that trade would never ever happen. 

[winsomme]

Well, I think that is why you have to overpay to get the big bat. Buch, Ells, and Kelly is probably overpaying to get A-Gon, but these guys are the hardest to get in MLB right now...

that isnt probably overpaying, it is way way overpaying.  that trade would never ever happen. 

Well I would prefer Cabrera....I think we could get him for less because of his contract, but at this point I would be willing to pay that price for A-Gon because I think it is that important to get that big bat.

you think this is way overpaying, so can I assume that you concede that this package would get the deal done from SDs side of things?

what would also likely happen is that we would get another prospect in return that quite a bit lower on the charts than Kelly..

In terms of way overpaying, I don't agree. I think there are so few big time bats in the league, that that is price tag. ...especially for a guy making peanuts the next two seasons.

[yall hate]

Well, I think that is why you have to overpay to get the big bat. Buch, Ells, and Kelly is probably overpaying to get A-Gon, but these guys are the hardest to get in MLB right now...

that isnt probably overpaying, it is way way overpaying.  that trade would never ever happen. 

Well I would prefer Cabrera....I think we could get him for less because of his contract, but at this point I would be willing to pay that price for A-Gon because I think it is that important to get that big bat.

you think this is way overpaying, so can I assume that you concede that this package would get the deal done from SDs side of things?

what would also likely happen is that we would get another prospect in return that quite a bit lower on the charts than Kelly..

In terms of way overpaying, I don't agree. I think there are so few big time bats in the league, that that is price tag. ...especially for a guy making peanuts the next two seasons.

except you are giving up 5 (4?) cost controlled years of a pitcher who has ace potential (and is a 4 now for us, 3 for most teams), 4 (3?) cost controlled years of a hitter who can lead off, steal 60+ bases and play gold glove caliber defense, and a pitcher who has upside to the 2-3 range (has cost a lot to this point - his bonus, but still gives you cost controlled years in the future).  It is having players like that on the team that allows this team to throw big money at players...it is not only an unsound trade for the team and its future from a skill level, it makes close to zero financial sense.

as for whether SD would take it if it were offered, they should, but I am not sure they would. as mentioned countless times, they need to have a name their franchise can follow.  they have that.  same with the marlins and Hanley.

and that isnt the price tag. what other deal for a power hitter can you point to that gave up three players of that caliber?  you cant, although feel free to try (this isnt just super high upside, low level guys...)

and as for Cabrera, there is something unsettling about a guy who gets drunk the night before an elimination game and beats up his wife.  not sure his priorities are correct.  and how fat is he going to get before he can no longer play defense...oh wait, he is already there.  well, how fat till it starts effecting his ability to hit?  there is no doubt he can hit now, but what happens when he eats his way through that too?

[winsomme]

Well, I think that is why you have to overpay to get the big bat. Buch, Ells, and Kelly is probably overpaying to get A-Gon, but these guys are the hardest to get in MLB right now...

that isnt probably overpaying, it is way way overpaying.  that trade would never ever happen. 

Well I would prefer Cabrera....I think we could get him for less because of his contract, but at this point I would be willing to pay that price for A-Gon because I think it is that important to get that big bat.

you think this is way overpaying, so can I assume that you concede that this package would get the deal done from SDs side of things?

what would also likely happen is that we would get another prospect in return that quite a bit lower on the charts than Kelly..

In terms of way overpaying, I don't agree. I think there are so few big time bats in the league, that that is price tag. ...especially for a guy making peanuts the next two seasons.

except you are giving up 5 (4?) cost controlled years of a pitcher who has ace potential (and is a 4 now for us, 3 for most teams), 4 (3?) cost controlled years of a hitter who can lead off, steal 60+ bases and play gold glove caliber defense, and a pitcher who has upside to the 2-3 range (has cost a lot to this point - his bonus, but still gives you cost controlled years in the future).  It is having players like that on the team that allows this team to throw big money at players...it is not only an unsound trade for the team and its future from a skill level, it makes close to zero financial sense.

as for whether SD would take it if it were offered, they should, but I am not sure they would. as mentioned countless times, they need to have a name their franchise can follow.  they have that.  same with the marlins and Hanley.

and that isnt the price tag. what other deal for a power hitter can you point to that gave up three players of that caliber?  you cant, although feel free to try (this isnt just super high upside, low level guys...)

and as for Cabrera, there is something unsettling about a guy who gets drunk the night before an elimination game and beats up his wife.  not sure his priorities are correct.  and how fat is he going to get before he can no longer play defense...oh wait, he is already there.  well, how fat till it starts effecting his ability to hit?  there is no doubt he can hit now, but what happens when he eats his way through that too?

so your argument is that Buch,Ells,Kelly is not the price tag for A-Gon, but SD wouldn't do the deal if offered.....

that means you are saying the price tag is higher than Buch, Ells, Kelly....not lower...