The Sox are officially after Adrian Gonzalez

[MBz]

Well, Adrian Gonzalez will not be coming to the sox until at least July.  Apparently the Padres will not be trading him until the deadline.

[nickagneta]

Well, Adrian Gonzalez will not be coming to the sox until at least July.  Apparently the Padres will not be trading him until the deadline.

Yeah, that's pretty much what's been coming out of San Diego for quite a while.

[Tr1boy]

after beltre signing there isn't a chance.

Redsox will probably wait it out till he is a free agent in a couple of years and try to sign him to a texeira like deal.

[Chris]

after beltre signing there isn't a chance.

Redsox will probably wait it out till he is a free agent in a couple of years and try to sign him to a texeira like deal.

How do you figure?  There was no chance be was being traded before the season anyways, but the 1 year contract for Beltre I think makes it even more likely the Sox go after AGon.  Because the contract is so short, it does not tie them down, and shows their intent to try to upgrade the corner infield spots before 2011. 

I think they do everything they possibly can to get Gonzalez at the deadline, and if they do, they send Beltre to another team for some prospects, as either part of the AGon deal, or to offset it a bit.  With the one year deal, Beltre will be very tradable if another contender is looking for a third baseman.

[winsomme]

after beltre signing there isn't a chance.

Redsox will probably wait it out till he is a free agent in a couple of years and try to sign him to a texeira like deal.

How do you figure?  There was no chance be was being traded before the season anyways, but the 1 year contract for Beltre I think makes it even more likely the Sox go after AGon.  Because the contract is so short, it does not tie them down, and shows their intent to try to upgrade the corner infield spots before 2011. 

I think they do everything they possibly can to get Gonzalez at the deadline, and if they do, they send Beltre to another team for some prospects, as either part of the AGon deal, or to offset it a bit.  With the one year deal, Beltre will be very tradable if another contender is looking for a third baseman.

my thinking is this: if we have a team that is on pace to win 100 games, the front office is not going to make a deadline deal trading away three prime players...they are more likely to ride it out and keep the young guys....

[nickagneta]

after beltre signing there isn't a chance.

Redsox will probably wait it out till he is a free agent in a couple of years and try to sign him to a texeira like deal.

How do you figure?  There was no chance be was being traded before the season anyways, but the 1 year contract for Beltre I think makes it even more likely the Sox go after AGon.  Because the contract is so short, it does not tie them down, and shows their intent to try to upgrade the corner infield spots before 2011. 

I think they do everything they possibly can to get Gonzalez at the deadline, and if they do, they send Beltre to another team for some prospects, as either part of the AGon deal, or to offset it a bit.  With the one year deal, Beltre will be very tradable if another contender is looking for a third baseman.

my thinking is this: if we have a team that is on pace to win 100 games, the front office is not going to make a deadline deal trading away three prime players...they are more likely to ride it out and keep the young guys....

The morning Nomar Garciaparra was traded on Julty 31, 2004 the Red Sox were 11 games over .500 on a pace for a 92-93 win season. The Sox traded him and Mark Murton and got back Doug Mientkiewicz and Orlando Cabrera and rest is history.

The Sox not only traded away a prime player, they traded away one of their stars while on pace to win over 90+ games. The result speaks for itself.

I wouldn't preclude the Sox from making any trade at any time, so long as Theo thinks it will improve the team.

[Chris]

after beltre signing there isn't a chance.

Redsox will probably wait it out till he is a free agent in a couple of years and try to sign him to a texeira like deal.

How do you figure?  There was no chance be was being traded before the season anyways, but the 1 year contract for Beltre I think makes it even more likely the Sox go after AGon.  Because the contract is so short, it does not tie them down, and shows their intent to try to upgrade the corner infield spots before 2011. 

I think they do everything they possibly can to get Gonzalez at the deadline, and if they do, they send Beltre to another team for some prospects, as either part of the AGon deal, or to offset it a bit.  With the one year deal, Beltre will be very tradable if another contender is looking for a third baseman.

my thinking is this: if we have a team that is on pace to win 100 games, the front office is not going to make a deadline deal trading away three prime players...they are more likely to ride it out and keep the young guys....

I really don't think you have been paying attention to the Theo regime.  With him, there have been two constants.  First, he is never afraid to pull the trigger (or not pull it) on a deal at any time, no matter what the situation.  Second, he goes harder after his "binkies" than any GM in pro sports.  Whether it was JD Drew, Julio Lugo, or Mike Cameron.  He always finds a way to get them.  And one thing that has been incredibly clear for a long time now, is that AGon is one of those Binkies.  Theo has reportedly been following him closely since his days in the minors, and nearly traded for him once before.

Now, perhaps things won't work out, because the Sox will be outbid, or San Diego will decide they are better off keeping their home town hero.  But the idea that the Sox will simply give up on the search because they are on a good pace during the season is ridiculous IMO.

[winsomme]

after beltre signing there isn't a chance.

Redsox will probably wait it out till he is a free agent in a couple of years and try to sign him to a texeira like deal.

How do you figure?  There was no chance be was being traded before the season anyways, but the 1 year contract for Beltre I think makes it even more likely the Sox go after AGon.  Because the contract is so short, it does not tie them down, and shows their intent to try to upgrade the corner infield spots before 2011. 

I think they do everything they possibly can to get Gonzalez at the deadline, and if they do, they send Beltre to another team for some prospects, as either part of the AGon deal, or to offset it a bit.  With the one year deal, Beltre will be very tradable if another contender is looking for a third baseman.

my thinking is this: if we have a team that is on pace to win 100 games, the front office is not going to make a deadline deal trading away three prime players...they are more likely to ride it out and keep the young guys....

I really don't think you have been paying attention to the Theo regime.  With him, there have been two constants.  First, he is never afraid to pull the trigger (or not pull it) on a deal at any time, no matter what the situation.  Second, he goes harder after his "binkies" than any GM in pro sports.  Whether it was JD Drew, Julio Lugo, or Mike Cameron.  He always finds a way to get them.  And one thing that has been incredibly clear for a long time now, is that AGon is one of those Binkies.  Theo has reportedly been following him closely since his days in the minors, and nearly traded for him once before.

Now, perhaps things won't work out, because the Sox will be outbid, or San Diego will decide they are better off keeping their home town hero.  But the idea that the Sox will simply give up on the search because they are on a good pace during the season is ridiculous IMO.

You and nick are posing this in a very abstract way...."If Theo thinks a move will make the team better, he's not afraid to make the move..."

My problem with Theo isn't a fear of making moves, it's recognizing what the need is.

You have suggested that Theo has been after the big bat....all I'm doing is noting that what has actually gotten done on the big bat front is to not actually get the big bat....after several attempts now (not to mention two less than satisfying playoff runs).

in fact, this offseason, not only have we not gotten the big bat, but we haven't even kept the big bat we had and instead ushered in a whole new philosophy that moves away from the big bat and toward pitching and defense...

Again, my point about not making a move during the season with a 100 win team isn't that Theo would be afraid to make a move for a big bat under those circumstances, but that he wouldn't consider that move (one for a big bat) an improvement.

remember, we would be trading something like Buch, Ells, and Kelly to get a deal done....my concern is that Theo will be satisfied with his 100 win team thinking they are good enough to win a WS as constructed and not be willing to part with the prospects to get an A-Gon...

and that's why I'm not crazy about this Beltre move. It de-emphasizes the need for A-Gon by putting out on the field a team that will do well during the regular season, but not have the pop in the lineup for the postseason...something that has happened two postseasons in a row now.

[celticsclay]

after beltre signing there isn't a chance.

Redsox will probably wait it out till he is a free agent in a couple of years and try to sign him to a texeira like deal.

How do you figure?  There was no chance be was being traded before the season anyways, but the 1 year contract for Beltre I think makes it even more likely the Sox go after AGon.  Because the contract is so short, it does not tie them down, and shows their intent to try to upgrade the corner infield spots before 2011. 

I think they do everything they possibly can to get Gonzalez at the deadline, and if they do, they send Beltre to another team for some prospects, as either part of the AGon deal, or to offset it a bit.  With the one year deal, Beltre will be very tradable if another contender is looking for a third baseman.

my thinking is this: if we have a team that is on pace to win 100 games, the front office is not going to make a deadline deal trading away three prime players...they are more likely to ride it out and keep the young guys....

I really don't think you have been paying attention to the Theo regime.  With him, there have been two constants.  First, he is never afraid to pull the trigger (or not pull it) on a deal at any time, no matter what the situation.  Second, he goes harder after his "binkies" than any GM in pro sports.  Whether it was JD Drew, Julio Lugo, or Mike Cameron.  He always finds a way to get them.  And one thing that has been incredibly clear for a long time now, is that AGon is one of those Binkies.  Theo has reportedly been following him closely since his days in the minors, and nearly traded for him once before.

Now, perhaps things won't work out, because the Sox will be outbid, or San Diego will decide they are better off keeping their home town hero.  But the idea that the Sox will simply give up on the search because they are on a good pace during the season is ridiculous IMO.

You and nick are posing this in a very abstract way...."If Theo thinks a move will make the team better, he's not afraid to make the move..."

My problem with Theo isn't a fear of making moves, it's recognizing what the need is.

You have suggested that Theo has been after the big bat....all I'm doing is noting that what has actually gotten done on the big bat front is to not actually get the big bat....after several attempts now (not to mention two less than satisfying playoff runs).

in fact, this offseason, not only have we not gotten the big bat, but we haven't even kept the big bat we had and instead ushered in a whole new philosophy that moves away from the big bat and toward pitching and defense...

Again, my point about not making a move during the season with a 100 win team isn't that Theo would be afraid to make a move for a big bat under those circumstances, but that he wouldn't consider that move (one for a big bat) an improvement.

remember, we would be trading something like Buch, Ells, and Kelly to get a deal done....my concern is that Theo will be satisfied with his 100 win team thinking they are good enough to win a WS as constructed and not be willing to part with the prospects to get an A-Gon...

and that's why I'm not crazy about this Beltre move. It de-emphasizes the need for A-Gon by putting out on the field a team that will do well during the regular season, but not have the pop in the lineup for the postseason...something that has happened two postseasons in a row now.

I completely agree. Although I will see Im not totally demoralized because we still have said prospects in our pocket to make a trade during season. Perhaps during season a big bat will be available that we are not even aware of. Im honestly not really familiar with other teams farm systems, but from reading the hot stove burners it seems like we have the ability (and money) to put together a really good package when someone goes on the market.

[winsomme]

after beltre signing there isn't a chance.

Redsox will probably wait it out till he is a free agent in a couple of years and try to sign him to a texeira like deal.

How do you figure?  There was no chance be was being traded before the season anyways, but the 1 year contract for Beltre I think makes it even more likely the Sox go after AGon.  Because the contract is so short, it does not tie them down, and shows their intent to try to upgrade the corner infield spots before 2011. 

I think they do everything they possibly can to get Gonzalez at the deadline, and if they do, they send Beltre to another team for some prospects, as either part of the AGon deal, or to offset it a bit.  With the one year deal, Beltre will be very tradable if another contender is looking for a third baseman.

my thinking is this: if we have a team that is on pace to win 100 games, the front office is not going to make a deadline deal trading away three prime players...they are more likely to ride it out and keep the young guys....

I really don't think you have been paying attention to the Theo regime.  With him, there have been two constants.  First, he is never afraid to pull the trigger (or not pull it) on a deal at any time, no matter what the situation.  Second, he goes harder after his "binkies" than any GM in pro sports.  Whether it was JD Drew, Julio Lugo, or Mike Cameron.  He always finds a way to get them.  And one thing that has been incredibly clear for a long time now, is that AGon is one of those Binkies.  Theo has reportedly been following him closely since his days in the minors, and nearly traded for him once before.

Now, perhaps things won't work out, because the Sox will be outbid, or San Diego will decide they are better off keeping their home town hero.  But the idea that the Sox will simply give up on the search because they are on a good pace during the season is ridiculous IMO.

You and nick are posing this in a very abstract way...."If Theo thinks a move will make the team better, he's not afraid to make the move..."

My problem with Theo isn't a fear of making moves, it's recognizing what the need is.

You have suggested that Theo has been after the big bat....all I'm doing is noting that what has actually gotten done on the big bat front is to not actually get the big bat....after several attempts now (not to mention two less than satisfying playoff runs).

in fact, this offseason, not only have we not gotten the big bat, but we haven't even kept the big bat we had and instead ushered in a whole new philosophy that moves away from the big bat and toward pitching and defense...

Again, my point about not making a move during the season with a 100 win team isn't that Theo would be afraid to make a move for a big bat under those circumstances, but that he wouldn't consider that move (one for a big bat) an improvement.

remember, we would be trading something like Buch, Ells, and Kelly to get a deal done....my concern is that Theo will be satisfied with his 100 win team thinking they are good enough to win a WS as constructed and not be willing to part with the prospects to get an A-Gon...

and that's why I'm not crazy about this Beltre move. It de-emphasizes the need for A-Gon by putting out on the field a team that will do well during the regular season, but not have the pop in the lineup for the postseason...something that has happened two postseasons in a row now.

I completely agree. Although I will see Im not totally demoralized because we still have said prospects in our pocket to make a trade during season. Perhaps during season a big bat will be available that we are not even aware of. Im honestly not really familiar with other teams farm systems, but from reading the hot stove burners it seems like we have the ability (and money) to put together a really good package when someone goes on the market.

we definitely have the package to get a deal done...the question is: what happens to the price tag during the season. With A-Gon, I don't think it goes down and it could go up.

so my feeling is get the deal done now. that's what I was hoping for anyway. but I'm just starting to worry that the move isn't actually as high on the priority list as IMO it needs to be...

I think if Theo was willing to give up the much discussed package, he could get the deal done now.

[yall hate]

someone lock this thread.  he isnt being traded now, so there is no point discussing it.  sure, if we offered them our entire farm system and the cash to cover all players for the next 10 years, they would.  but we arent, they arent.  maybe in a few months at the deadline. but for now dead.

[nickagneta]

How exactly can Theo get the deal done now if the GM in San Diego refuses to deal him now??

Jed Hoyer has stated publicly that Adrian Gonzalez is NOT on the market. Does everyone know that eventually he will have to trade him? Of course. But not now.

Hoyer just became GM and he, unlike when he was here in Boston, has to worry about selling tickets. He's got a new stadium he HAS to fill and about the stupidest thing he could do the minute he gets hired is trade the Padres best player, who happens to be a hometown San Diego boy, away to the team Hoyer just left. The public relations mess he would cause himself would eventually cost him his job prematurely.

Hoyer is going to wait until the deadline and see where his team sits in regards to the pennant race and see how ticket sales are doing. If either is lacking Gonzalez will be shipped out and luckily, Boston will probably have the most desirable package for Hoyer considering his familiarity with the talent.

[winsomme]

How exactly can Theo get the deal done now if the GM in San Diego refuses to deal him now??

Jed Hoyer has stated publicly that Adrian Gonzalez is NOT on the market. Does everyone know that eventually he will have to trade him? Of course. But not now.

Hoyer just became GM and he, unlike when he was here in Boston, has to worry about selling tickets. He's got a new stadium he HAS to fill and about the stupidest thing he could do the minute he gets hired is trade the Padres best player, who happens to be a hometown San Diego boy, away to the team Hoyer just left. The public relations mess he would cause himself would eventually cost him his job prematurely.

Hoyer is going to wait until the deadline and see where his team sits in regards to the pennant race and see how ticket sales are doing. If either is lacking Gonzalez will be shipped out and luckily, Boston will probably have the most desirable package for Hoyer considering his familiarity with the talent.

well there have already been trade talks....so to me that means there has been interest on SDs part to move him.

the question is the price tag.

I really think that the most important thing a team with a new ballpark can do to fill seats is put a winning team on the field.

Thus, IMO the Sox should overpay to get A-Gon. that way SD gets better and we get the piece we need.

[nickagneta]

How exactly can Theo get the deal done now if the GM in San Diego refuses to deal him now??

Jed Hoyer has stated publicly that Adrian Gonzalez is NOT on the market. Does everyone know that eventually he will have to trade him? Of course. But not now.

Hoyer just became GM and he, unlike when he was here in Boston, has to worry about selling tickets. He's got a new stadium he HAS to fill and about the stupidest thing he could do the minute he gets hired is trade the Padres best player, who happens to be a hometown San Diego boy, away to the team Hoyer just left. The public relations mess he would cause himself would eventually cost him his job prematurely.

Hoyer is going to wait until the deadline and see where his team sits in regards to the pennant race and see how ticket sales are doing. If either is lacking Gonzalez will be shipped out and luckily, Boston will probably have the most desirable package for Hoyer considering his familiarity with the talent.

well there have already been trade talks....so to me that means there has been interest on SDs part to move him.

the question is the price tag.

I really think that the most important thing a team with a new ballpark can do to fill seats is put a winning team on the field.

Thus, IMO the Sox should overpay to get A-Gon. that way SD gets better and we get the piece we need.

Again, the talks ended as fast as they began and THEN Hoyer stated Gonzalez was not going to be traded. As in, forget it. He's off the market for now.

It doesn't matter what you offer, he's not on the market.

[winsomme]

How exactly can Theo get the deal done now if the GM in San Diego refuses to deal him now??

Jed Hoyer has stated publicly that Adrian Gonzalez is NOT on the market. Does everyone know that eventually he will have to trade him? Of course. But not now.

Hoyer just became GM and he, unlike when he was here in Boston, has to worry about selling tickets. He's got a new stadium he HAS to fill and about the stupidest thing he could do the minute he gets hired is trade the Padres best player, who happens to be a hometown San Diego boy, away to the team Hoyer just left. The public relations mess he would cause himself would eventually cost him his job prematurely.

Hoyer is going to wait until the deadline and see where his team sits in regards to the pennant race and see how ticket sales are doing. If either is lacking Gonzalez will be shipped out and luckily, Boston will probably have the most desirable package for Hoyer considering his familiarity with the talent.

well there have already been trade talks....so to me that means there has been interest on SDs part to move him.

the question is the price tag.

I really think that the most important thing a team with a new ballpark can do to fill seats is put a winning team on the field.

Thus, IMO the Sox should overpay to get A-Gon. that way SD gets better and we get the piece we need.

Again, the talks ended as fast as they began and THEN Hoyer stated Gonzalez was not going to be traded. As in, forget it. He's off the market for now.

It doesn't matter what you offer, he's not on the market.

well maybe he wasn't getting offers that he or they considered legit.....