tony allen

[Jay G]

time for scal and tony to go...we need guys that can actually contribute every night

honestly i think since the end of last season, scal has been consistently contributing pretty well for the minutes hes given, well at least better than before. He's starting to remind me of his new jersy days.

[snively]

They credited him with 2 turnovers but given that he was twice trying to get shots off underneath the basket after pulling up his dribble and got his shots blocked while surrounded by Gibson and Noah, it should really be 4 turnovers.

Just an awful first half.

There you go again, nick, myopically focusing on the negative.  Tony has an earth shattering two points (on 25% shooting) and 2 rebounds, as well.  How dare you negate his positive contributions?

Give me a break Roy.  You were more than happy to keep mum on his 80% shooting on Thursday, and now when TA has a bad all around game you're willing to expand your perspective to take in the whole box score.  Historically, TA's positive contributions outweigh his negative ones over time.  That's just the nature of his high-risk/high-reward game.

I think Doc alluded to this in his quote in the Globe, saying TA's gonna look good and bad and he just has to be patient.  

TA is by no means an ideal back-up, especially for a contending team, but if he can approximate his career averages for us (which means slightly less turnovers than he's made so far), we'll do fine with him as the primary back-up wing until Daniels comes back.

Maybe I'm alone on this but I don't view a Tony Allen turnover as all that much worse than a couple of Sheed/House bricks from downtown.  Sure it's more embarrassing and cringe-worthy, but the effect on the game isn't all that different.

[Roy Hobbs]

Give me a break Roy.  You were more than happy to keep mum on his 80% shooting on Thursday, and now when TA has a bad all around game you're willing to expand your perspective to take in the whole box score.

Why would I focus on aberrations?  I have criticized Tony for the problems he's repeatedly had.  I gave him credit for his play in the first half the other night, but his second half was poor.  Even in his "great game", he had 3 turnovers and 3 fouls in 17 minutes.  In other words, in three games this year, Tony has had two poor ones, and one mediocre one.

Historically, TA's positive contributions outweigh his negative ones over time.

Clearly, we have a different opinion on Tony's value.

[ManUp]

He has no value to his team aside from his expiring contract.

[snively]

Give me a break Roy.  You were more than happy to keep mum on his 80% shooting on Thursday, and now when TA has a bad all around game you're willing to expand your perspective to take in the whole box score.

Why would I focus on aberrations?  I have criticized Tony for the problems he's repeatedly had.  I gave him credit for his play in the first half the other night, but his second half was poor.  Even in his "great game", he had 3 turnovers and 3 fouls in 17 minutes.  In other words, in three games this year, Tony has had two poor ones, and one mediocre one.

Historically, TA's positive contributions outweigh his negative ones over time.

Clearly, we have a different opinion on Tony's value.

You focused on his 25% shooting in this thread, which is just as much an aberration as his 80% shooting on Thursday.

It just seems like you define any positive production from Tony as an aberration, which seems to me at odds with his past performance. 

Thus far this season Tony is fouling and turning the ball over at much higher rates than he has in the past.  I'd expect that to moderate to his career norms as the season progresses.  After all, it's not as if he's new to returning from injury to a bench role.

Do you disagree that he can return to career averages?  And if not, do you think that 8pts on 47% shooting, 2-3 boards, 1 steal, 1-2 assists, 1-2 TOs and 2-3 fouls in 18-20 minutes per with decent defense represents a net positive off the bench, even if the style in which it is delivered is extremely aggravating and not suitable for tight playoff games?

[Birdbrain]

Give me a break Roy.  You were more than happy to keep mum on his 80% shooting on Thursday, and now when TA has a bad all around game you're willing to expand your perspective to take in the whole box score.

Why would I focus on aberrations?  I have criticized Tony for the problems he's repeatedly had.  I gave him credit for his play in the first half the other night, but his second half was poor.  Even in his "great game", he had 3 turnovers and 3 fouls in 17 minutes.  In other words, in three games this year, Tony has had two poor ones, and one mediocre one.

Historically, TA's positive contributions outweigh his negative ones over time.

Clearly, we have a different opinion on Tony's value.

You focused on his 25% shooting in this thread, which is just as much an aberration as his 80% shooting on Thursday.

It just seems like you define any positive production from Tony as an aberration, which seems to me at odds with his past performance. 

Thus far this season Tony is fouling and turning the ball over at much higher rates than he has in the past.  I'd expect that to moderate to his career norms as the season progresses.  After all, it's not as if he's new to returning from injury to a bench role.

Do you disagree that he can return to career averages?  And if not, do you think that 8pts on 47% shooting, 2-3 boards, 1 steal, 1-2 assists, 1-2 TOs and 2-3 fouls in 18-20 minutes per with decent defense represents a net positive off the bench, even if the style in which it is delivered is extremely aggravating and not suitable for tight playoff games?

TP and very well thought out.

I almost feel sorry for the guy when they put him at PG.  He's obviously not a very good ball handler/facilitator but, as an athletic wing who can force some TOs and maybe score a few baskets I don't mind him.  He had a nice jumper last night...I'm a homer.

There was a point in the game where Doc went with House and Tony as the ball handlers I mean what did he expect to happen?

TOssssss

[CelticG1]

Who cares how Tony did against the Bulls. We won by 26 and were absolutely owning them. I care more about the game against the Washington, you know the close one, where every point he scored actually meant something. Kind of like I don't care about Rondo's 5 TO's in the Bulls game because he only had 1 TO against Wash and thats when we really needed him to take care of the ball.

[MidwestGreen]

Is there any way we can trade TA for a couple of new home game promotion items? Like maybe some shooting shirts for the first 1000?

[Roy Hobbs]

Who cares how Tony did against the Bulls. We won by 26 and were absolutely owning them. I care more about the game against the Washington, you know the close one, where every point he scored actually meant something. Kind of like I don't care about Rondo's 5 TO's in the Bulls game because he only had 1 TO against Wash and thats when we really needed him to take care of the ball.

Tony's bad play came in the late first and early second quarter of the game, when the score was very close.  When Tony had his first shot blocked, the score was tied.  When he had his second turnover, the score was 33-30.

Doc then immediately took Tony out of the game, and didn't insert him again until we were up 95-72 with five minutes left. 

There's nothing to this "Tony plays well when it matters" hypothesis.  He played terribly in a close game against Milwaukee, and he played terribly when the game was close last night.

[GreenFaith1819]

Who cares how Tony did against the Bulls. We won by 26 and were absolutely owning them. I care more about the game against the Washington, you know the close one, where every point he scored actually meant something. Kind of like I don't care about Rondo's 5 TO's in the Bulls game because he only had 1 TO against Wash and thats when we really needed him to take care of the ball.

Good Point.

TA needs to be more consistent, but it can't be denied that we needed his 8pts in WAS. Without them, we lost.

If the guy can just stay healthy, and focused while he is in there, maybe he can hit a groove?

[Bahku]

Who cares how Tony did against the Bulls. We won by 26 and were absolutely owning them. I care more about the game against the Washington, you know the close one, where every point he scored actually meant something. Kind of like I don't care about Rondo's 5 TO's in the Bulls game because he only had 1 TO against Wash and thats when we really needed him to take care of the ball.

Good Point.

TA needs to be more consistent, but it can't be denied that we needed his 8pts in WAS. Without them, we lost.

If the guy can just stay healthy, and focused while he is in there, maybe he can hit a groove?

But that's just the problem, GF ... he CAN'T stay focused ... he's never focused and it is a liability to whoever he's playing with at the time. Sorry, I usually go your way, but Tony is inconsistent and at best, a huge question mark ... we just don't need that kind of coin-toss.

[Roy Hobbs]

Who cares how Tony did against the Bulls. We won by 26 and were absolutely owning them. I care more about the game against the Washington, you know the close one, where every point he scored actually meant something. Kind of like I don't care about Rondo's 5 TO's in the Bulls game because he only had 1 TO against Wash and thats when we really needed him to take care of the ball.

Good Point.

TA needs to be more consistent, but it can't be denied that we needed his 8pts in WAS. Without them, we lost.

If the guy can just stay healthy, and focused while he is in there, maybe he can hit a groove?

But that's just the problem, GF ... he CAN'T stay focused ... he's never focused and it is a liability to whoever he's playing with at the time. Sorry, I usually go your way, but Tony is inconsistent and at best, a huge question mark ... we just don't need that kind of coin-toss.

That's exactly right.  A team can't count on a player who plays good basketball once every three games.  Most players, you know what you're going to get.  They'll have the rare game where they're mentally not into the game, and everyone has games when their shot isn't falling.  However, most players will perform within certain parameters that can be projected.

Not Tony.  He's the only player I know who can play great one moment, and Gerald Green-esque the next.  Generally, players like that play in the D-League, rather than the NBA.  One of the requirements of being a pro is that after six years, you're not susceptible to the huge swings in performance on a nightly basis.

Doc was smart against the Bulls.  As soon as "Bad Tony" showed up, Doc sat him until garbage time. 

In Tony's defense, I will say that at least there weren't any death threats to distract the team last night.  I guess those get saved for the playoffs.

[wdleehi]

TA, for every good game (by his standards), there are 3 to 4 bad games. 


He has tools.  Just not the consistent know-how.

[GreenFaith1819]

Who cares how Tony did against the Bulls. We won by 26 and were absolutely owning them. I care more about the game against the Washington, you know the close one, where every point he scored actually meant something. Kind of like I don't care about Rondo's 5 TO's in the Bulls game because he only had 1 TO against Wash and thats when we really needed him to take care of the ball.

Good Point.

TA needs to be more consistent, but it can't be denied that we needed his 8pts in WAS. Without them, we lost.

If the guy can just stay healthy, and focused while he is in there, maybe he can hit a groove?

But that's just the problem, GF ... he CAN'T stay focused ... he's never focused and it is a liability to whoever he's playing with at the time. Sorry, I usually go your way, but Tony is inconsistent and at best, a huge question mark ... we just don't need that kind of coin-toss.

I certainly agree with his inability to stay focused, though..I wonder if this is due to him not being healthy and not being able to stay in a groove?

But...I realize now that evidently Marquis Daniels hasn't been healthy his entire career, either..but when he came back to play from his injuries in Indy I don't think he had the same lack of focus issues? Or did he?

If anyone who has been following my posts can't already figure out, I find good in every player, maybe to a fault...I just believe that TA will have a HUGE game in ORL and against LA, when we need him.

He is still a Celtic until he is traded or resigns with us. And yes he has been with us for six years, but still...I just have that feeling about him.

[nickagneta]

Who cares how Tony did against the Bulls. We won by 26 and were absolutely owning them. I care more about the game against the Washington, you know the close one, where every point he scored actually meant something. Kind of like I don't care about Rondo's 5 TO's in the Bulls game because he only had 1 TO against Wash and thats when we really needed him to take care of the ball.

Good Point.

TA needs to be more consistent, but it can't be denied that we needed his 8pts in WAS. Without them, we lost.

If the guy can just stay healthy, and focused while he is in there, maybe he can hit a groove?

But that's just the problem, GF ... he CAN'T stay focused ... he's never focused and it is a liability to whoever he's playing with at the time. Sorry, I usually go your way, but Tony is inconsistent and at best, a huge question mark ... we just don't need that kind of coin-toss.

I certainly agree with his inability to stay focused, though..I wonder if this is due to him not being healthy and not being able to stay in a groove?

But...I realize now that evidently Marquis Daniels hasn't been healthy his entire career, either..but when he came back to play from his injuries in Indy I don't think he had the same lack of focus issues? Or did he?

If anyone who has been following my posts can't already figure out, I find good in every player, maybe to a fault...I just believe that TA will have a HUGE game in ORL and against LA, when we need him.

He is still a Celtic until he is traded or resigns with us. And yes he has been with us for six years, but still...I just have that feeling about him.

I get that feeling every time I buy a lottery ticket. But after 4 straight years of buying lottery tickets, I've just come to the conclusion that the chances are much better that I'm not going to win millions of dollars, so I stopped buying them.