Trade idea: BOS/POR/SAC

[ssspence]

This is NOT born out of Marquis’ injury -- tho under the circumstances it may make sense. I’d posted this in a separate thread about Jerryd Bayless, and thought I’d throw it out to the wider group. 

Boston trades:

Baby (to Portland)
TA (to SAC)
Scal (to SAC)
Giddens (to SAC)


Boston receives:

Webster
Bayless
Outlaw
J Howard

Portland trades:

Webster (to Boston)
Bayless (to Boston)
Outlaw (to Boston)
J Howard (to Boston)

Portland receives:

Baby
Nocioni

Sacramento trades:

Nocioni (to Portland)

Sacramento receives:

Scal
TA
Giddens

Works on the Trade Checker as of December 17th. Hat tip to nickagneta for rationalizing it with me.

[hardlyyardley]

No way Portland does this....too little back....too much going out

[ssspence]

No way Portland does this....too little back....too much going out

I don't follow.

They trade one rotation player (webster), one occasional player where they're deep (bayless), a guy who is out indefinitely, likely until he's a Free Agent this summer (outlaw) and a relic (howard) for two guys who would play 25 minutes each at positions of serious need considering outlaw, batum and oden all being out of the line-up.

They start Miller, Roy, Nocioni, Baby and Aldridge bringing Blake, Rudy and Pryz off the bench. They're immediately improved and a major player in the west.

[Chris]

So Portland gives away the most talent, and takes back the worst contract.  Somehow I don't see them going for this.

[liam]

I don't think this trade works for anyone.

[ssspence]

So Portland gives away the most talent, and takes back the worst contract.  Somehow I don't see them going for this.

Webster and Nocioni's contracts are very similar -- same length and they're only about 1.7mil different in the final year. Noce has been the better player to date. Not sure I see Portland of all teams getting hung up on the money if they improve.

Is it worth it to them to add a quality 4 in Baby? Do you think they improve in this trade?

[ssspence]

Another scenario that may work includes Philadelphia, who would certainly take our expirings for Delambert. Sacramento needs a shot blocker in a big way, and we’re all aware of the rumored deal between Sac, Phili and Boston that was shot down by Ainge.

Boston trades:

Baby (to Portland)
TA (to SAC)
Scal (to Phila)
Giddens (to Phila)


Boston receives:

Webster
Bayless
Outlaw
J Howard

Portland trades:

Webster (to Boston)
Bayless (to Boston)
Outlaw (to Boston)
J Howard (to Boston)

Portland receives:

Baby
Nocioni

Sacramento trades:

Nocioni (to Portland)
Kenny Thomas (to Phila)

Sacramento receives:

Delambert
Tony Allen

Philadelphia trades:

Delambert (to SAC)

Philadelphia receives:

Kenny Thomas
Scal
Giddens

[Atzar]

You seem convinced that Outlaw will be out for the remainder of his contract with Portland.  If that's the case, then why should we want him?  I don't want to give up players - even TA, JR, Scal, etc. - for a player I may not ever see in a Celtics uniform.

Just a thought.

[ssspence]

You seem convinced that Outlaw will be out for the remainder of his contract with Portland.  If that's the case, then why should we want him?  I don't want to give up players - even TA, JR, Scal, etc. - for a player I may not ever see in a Celtics uniform.

Just a thought.

There's a decent chance he'll be back for the playoffs. But the fact is that TA, JR and Scal are not really NBA players. If they didn't have guaranteed contracts there's an excellent chance each would be out of the league. I mean, would you rather have JR Giddens or Morris Almond? Would you rather have Stackhouse or Scal?

Regardless, this is a minor point in what is a pretty large deal. I'd rather consider the idea of both an NBA caliber PG and SF than get caught up on meaningless bodies.

Remember, you'd have Outlaw's Bird Rights and he therefore could be signed in the offseason without using any of the MLE. He's a talented player and could fit in well with Rondo and Perk as the Big 3 ages...

[slamtheking]

No way Portland does this....too little back....too much going out

I don't follow.

They trade one rotation player (webster), one occasional player where they're deep (bayless), a guy who is out indefinitely, likely until he's a Free Agent this summer (outlaw) and a relic (howard) for two guys who would play 25 minutes each at positions of serious need considering outlaw, batum and oden all being out of the line-up.

They start Miller, Roy, Nocioni, Baby and Aldridge bringing Blake, Rudy and Pryz off the bench. They're immediately improved and a major player in the west.

Um, hate to come across like a smartass  but you just made the case for the C's NOT to make this deal.  All the points you made about why they give up those players was the same thing that ran through my mind why this wasn't a good deal when I read your proposal.

Philly alternative would be the same response.  C's get a redundant relic in Howard, a no-pass/no-ballhandling guard with Bayless, a IR-player with Outlaw and a marginal forward with Webster.  No thanks.

[ssspence]

No way Portland does this....too little back....too much going out

I don't follow.

They trade one rotation player (webster), one occasional player where they're deep (bayless), a guy who is out indefinitely, likely until he's a Free Agent this summer (outlaw) and a relic (howard) for two guys who would play 25 minutes each at positions of serious need considering outlaw, batum and oden all being out of the line-up.

They start Miller, Roy, Nocioni, Baby and Aldridge bringing Blake, Rudy and Pryz off the bench. They're immediately improved and a major player in the west.

Um, hate to come across like a smartass  but you just made the case for the C's NOT to make this deal.  All the points you made about why they give up those players was the same thing that ran through my mind why this wasn't a good deal when I read your proposal.

Philly alternative would be the same response.  C's get a redundant relic in Howard, a no-pass/no-ballhandling guard with Bayless, a IR-player with Outlaw and a marginal forward with Webster.  No thanks.

Incorrect, my man. These are reasons why Portland does it. Where do they need help? At the starting 3 and 4. They get it. Where do the Cs need help? At the back-up 1 and back-up wing. They get it. Not every trade involves someone getting ripped off. It's about team needs, and this certainly deepens our bench, and you'd have a hard time arguing they lose on talent.

The Cs trade a back-up PF for a back-up 1 and a wing player who can come off the bench and do two things at the same time: shoot and play defense. These are items the Cs DO NOT have.

Bayless can't dribble? Ever seen him play?

[slamtheking]

No way Portland does this....too little back....too much going out

I don't follow.

They trade one rotation player (webster), one occasional player where they're deep (bayless), a guy who is out indefinitely, likely until he's a Free Agent this summer (outlaw) and a relic (howard) for two guys who would play 25 minutes each at positions of serious need considering outlaw, batum and oden all being out of the line-up.

They start Miller, Roy, Nocioni, Baby and Aldridge bringing Blake, Rudy and Pryz off the bench. They're immediately improved and a major player in the west.

Um, hate to come across like a smartass  but you just made the case for the C's NOT to make this deal.  All the points you made about why they give up those players was the same thing that ran through my mind why this wasn't a good deal when I read your proposal.

Philly alternative would be the same response.  C's get a redundant relic in Howard, a no-pass/no-ballhandling guard with Bayless, a IR-player with Outlaw and a marginal forward with Webster.  No thanks.

Incorrect, my man. These are reasons why Portland does it. Where do they need help? At the starting 3 and 4. They get it. Where do the Cs need help? At the back-up 1 and back-up wing. They get it. Not every trade involves someone getting ripped off. It's about team needs, and this certainly deepens our bench, and you'd have a hard time arguing they lose on talent.

The Cs trade a back-up PF for a back-up 1 and a wing player who can come off the bench and do two things at the same time: shoot and play defense. These are items the Cs DO NOT have.

Bayless can't dribble? Ever seen him play?

incorrect? don't think so.

From a C's perspective, they get nothing.  BBD is better than Howard at this stage of their careers.  Outlaw is injured and likely out for the year.  Bayless does not provide the backup point they need nor is he big enough to play backup SF.  Webster, marginal player that's not worth this deal by himself.  If Outlaw were healthy, this would be a deal that might be worth making.

Portland certainly does ok when picking up BBD and Nocioni. 

[ssspence]

No way Portland does this....too little back....too much going out

I don't follow.

They trade one rotation player (webster), one occasional player where they're deep (bayless), a guy who is out indefinitely, likely until he's a Free Agent this summer (outlaw) and a relic (howard) for two guys who would play 25 minutes each at positions of serious need considering outlaw, batum and oden all being out of the line-up.

They start Miller, Roy, Nocioni, Baby and Aldridge bringing Blake, Rudy and Pryz off the bench. They're immediately improved and a major player in the west.

Um, hate to come across like a smartass  but you just made the case for the C's NOT to make this deal.  All the points you made about why they give up those players was the same thing that ran through my mind why this wasn't a good deal when I read your proposal.

Philly alternative would be the same response.  C's get a redundant relic in Howard, a no-pass/no-ballhandling guard with Bayless, a IR-player with Outlaw and a marginal forward with Webster.  No thanks.

Incorrect, my man. These are reasons why Portland does it. Where do they need help? At the starting 3 and 4. They get it. Where do the Cs need help? At the back-up 1 and back-up wing. They get it. Not every trade involves someone getting ripped off. It's about team needs, and this certainly deepens our bench, and you'd have a hard time arguing they lose on talent.

The Cs trade a back-up PF for a back-up 1 and a wing player who can come off the bench and do two things at the same time: shoot and play defense. These are items the Cs DO NOT have.

Bayless can't dribble? Ever seen him play?

incorrect? don't think so.

From a C's perspective, they get nothing.  BBD is better than Howard at this stage of their careers.  Outlaw is injured and likely out for the year.  Bayless does not provide the backup point they need nor is he big enough to play backup SF.  Webster, marginal player that's not worth this deal by himself.  If Outlaw were healthy, this would be a deal that might be worth making.

Portland certainly does ok when picking up BBD and Nocioni. 

The Cs get nothing? Come on, dude.

When you've got a (moderately realistic) trade idea that nets us better players with the not-so-fine bunch I'm offering up -- ping me.

[fanofgreen]

Question:   If there was a 3-on-3 tournament taking place, and you were Antoine Walker, who would you put your money on?

Portland: Bayless, Webster, Outlaw (Alt: Juwan Howard)

                                or

Boston: Tony Allen, Baby, Scalabrine (Alt: Giddens)


Well If I were Antoine Walker I would put my money on the Celtics, but since I am not Antoine, and dont feel like owing people money, I'm going to put my money on Portland.

And if you say boston would win, because juwan howard is old and outlaw is hurt, then why would we trade for old and hurt people??

I'm sorry but I just dont remember when the shift happend to where tony allen, scal, and JR Giddens were any where close in value to Outlaw and Webster, I'm sorry. And i'm not saying Webster and outlaw, and Bayless are stars, but they are clearly way better than TA SCAl and JR.

[scoop]

So Portland gives away the most talent, and takes back the worst contract.  Somehow I don't see them going for this.

Webster and Nocioni's contracts are very similar -- same length and they're only about 1.7mil different in the final year. Noce has been the better player to date. Not sure I see Portland of all teams getting hung up on the money if they improve.

Is it worth it to them to add a quality 4 in Baby? Do you think they improve in this trade?

No, I don't think they improve - they'd be significantly worse short and long term. They get worse financially (Nocioni may be a better player than Webster now, but Webster is 23 years old and making $14.3 millions in the next 3 years; Nocioni is 30 and making $21 millions in the next 3 seasons; and, in any case, to play the exclusively at the 3, I'd take Webster); they lose Outlaw's bird rights; they'd trade decimate their bench even more (who would play off the bench for them? Miller/Blake and Davis/Pryzbilla and the rookies?); they give away potential to receive back-ups.

If Portland wanted to trade Bayless+Outlaw+Webster they would get much more value than this.